Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff - page 2.

Clement Kaliyar

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Quote from: deisik on November 15, 2019, 11:40:46 AM

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

Big bitcoin holders are called as whales and majority are holding the coins for the long period.

Quote from: deisik on November 15, 2019, 11:40:46 AM

And thus there are no market manipulation either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

The market is not regulated and hence the possibility of manipulation is highly likely to happen and so is the reason we see instant rise and fall in the price quite often. Even a movement of huge amounts of coins from old dormant wallets can create FUD and we have seen those situation in the past where the market usually goes down when ever there is a movement of coins.

deisik

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Quote from: Webetcoins on November 13, 2019, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 12, 2019, 11:47:43 AM

It can be said that whales come in all forms and sizes, but what's even more important here is the fact that the ability to manipulate prices in a meaningful (read, profitable) way trickles down to whales of a smaller caliber in thinner markets. In other words, people whom we would never consider whales under different circumstances now can move the price, i.e. behave in exactly the same way as we would expect a real whale to behave. The bottom line is that it still remains a matter of perspective (more specifically, of zooming in and discerning the smaller whales acting like the big ones)

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

And thus there are no market manipulations either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

wheelz1200

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 12, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving. Cheesy

. I mean one of those comments will be right. People/groups buy and sell for various reasons. Smart money doesnt follow the crowd. Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride.

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Quote from: deisik on November 12, 2019, 11:47:43 AM

Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 12, 2019, 11:32:39 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 12, 2019, 05:33:25 AM

Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 11, 2019, 11:17:44 AM

While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens

From my perspective, things look a little bit different

We have recently seen a surge in volatility of Bitcoin prices, and that has a simple explanation as well as a straightforward implication and an obvious conclusion. The explanation is that these bouts of volatility are due to markets becoming thin (what can be seen by declining trading volumes)

Then, the implication is that with thin markets it takes less liquidity to move them in the desired direction, be it up or down, or even preventing such moves (as this is also a possibility and an option). All that leads us to a conclusion that Bitcoin is in fact getting easier to manipulate as trading volumes decline

Yeah agree that if the daily trading volume of bitcoin is less then it will need less money to manipulate the prices but the manipulation may not more profitable to the whales if no traders respond to that

Actually, that depends on a scale of the whale, so to speak

It can be said that whales come in all forms and sizes, but what's even more important here is the fact that the ability to manipulate prices in a meaningful (read, profitable) way trickles down to whales of a smaller caliber in thinner markets. In other words, people whom we would never consider whales under different circumstances now can move the price, i.e. behave in exactly the same way as we would expect a real whale to behave. The bottom line is that it still remains a matter of perspective (more specifically, of zooming in and discerning the smaller whales acting like the big ones)

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too.

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Quote from: ecnalubma on October 30, 2019, 12:04:16 PM

Quote

Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.

Source

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

Investors who are currently considered as whales wouldn't be in their position if they are not strategic and wise. You would definitely see them out there selling bitcoin before the market crash because they know it's the best thing to do. We can say that they are manipulating the price of bitcoin wherein as they sell on high, the price would go down and then afterwards, they can start buying cheap bitcoin to hold it for long and sell it again when the price comes back up. It's all bout outsmarting the system, that's why they ended up becoming Whales.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on November 12, 2019, 07:54:00 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 12, 2019, 02:05:34 AM

Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

Ever since the beginning of this year, the bitcoin market has always shown the sign that the dump trend is yet to exit the market which is also the reason why the market is experiencing an expected dump in price anytime but the part of crashing low to $900 price range is something I don't believe will happen.

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 12, 2019, 02:05:34 AM

If this proves to be true, it's likely an effort to snag REALLY cheap coins in preparation for another cycle of boom. Some expect the price to hit as high as $100k upon halving. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime if you've held out this long, might as well hold on for a few more months and bet on the predicted rise upon halving.

The dump range is all false and the current price of the market is enough to accumulate cheap coin.

I know the price of $900 is ridiculous but again, I'm just going of the worst predictions I've read in btc news. The price currently is still cheap, yes. Would still have been better if people managed to buy before the price starts going up last May. I think 100k is also too optimistic.

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Quote from: Mometaskers on November 12, 2019, 02:05:34 AM

Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

Ever since the beginning of this year, the bitcoin market has always shown the sign that the dump trend is yet to exit the market which is also the reason why the market is experiencing an expected dump in price anytime but the part of crashing low to $900 price range is something I don't believe will happen.

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 12, 2019, 02:05:34 AM

If this proves to be true, it's likely an effort to snag REALLY cheap coins in preparation for another cycle of boom. Some expect the price to hit as high as $100k upon halving. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime if you've held out this long, might as well hold on for a few more months and bet on the predicted rise upon halving.

The dump range is all false and the current price of the market is enough to accumulate cheap coin.

exstasie

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Quote from: Mometaskers on November 12, 2019, 02:05:34 AM

Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

Good. People were extremely bearish at $7,300 a few weeks ago too. It's always darkest before the dawn.

Quote from: Cnut237 on November 12, 2019, 04:38:50 AM

I think it is very revealing that the most vociferous opponents of bitcoin are exactly those people who have the most to lose if crypto is a success.

I don't think Schiff has much to lose if Bitcoin succeeds. Gold isn't going anywhere. If anything, he's piggybacking on Bitcoin's hype to increase his own relevance and enlarge his following. He annoys Bitcoin supporters but it's good business.

deisik

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 12, 2019, 11:32:39 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 12, 2019, 05:33:25 AM

Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 11, 2019, 11:17:44 AM

While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens

From my perspective, things look a little bit different

We have recently seen a surge in volatility of Bitcoin prices, and that has a simple explanation as well as a straightforward implication and an obvious conclusion. The explanation is that these bouts of volatility are due to markets becoming thin (what can be seen by declining trading volumes)

Then, the implication is that with thin markets it takes less liquidity to move them in the desired direction, be it up or down, or even preventing such moves (as this is also a possibility and an option). All that leads us to a conclusion that Bitcoin is in fact getting easier to manipulate as trading volumes decline

Yeah agree that if the daily trading volume of bitcoin is less then it will need less money to manipulate the prices but the manipulation may not more profitable to the whales if no traders respond to that

Actually, that depends on a scale of the whale, so to speak

It can be said that whales come in all forms and sizes, but what's even more important here is the fact that the ability to manipulate prices in a meaningful (read, profitable) way trickles down to whales of a smaller caliber in thinner markets. In other words, people whom we would never consider whales under different circumstances now can move the price, i.e. behave in exactly the same way as we would expect a real whale to behave. The bottom line is that it still remains a matter of perspective (more specifically, of zooming in and discerning the smaller whales acting like the big ones)

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: deisik on November 12, 2019, 05:33:25 AM

Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 11, 2019, 11:17:44 AM

While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens

From my perspective, things look a little bit different

We have recently seen a surge in volatility of Bitcoin prices, and that has a simple explanation as well as a straightforward implication and an obvious conclusion. The explanation is that these bouts of volatility are due to markets becoming thin (what can be seen by declining trading volumes)

Then, the implication is that with thin markets it takes less liquidity to move them in the desired direction, be it up or down, or even preventing such moves (as this is also a possibility and an option). All that leads us to a conclusion that Bitcoin is in fact getting easier to manipulate as trading volumes decline

Yeah agree that if the daily trading volume of bitcoin is less then it will need less money to manipulate the prices but the manipulation may not more profitable to the whales if no traders respond to that but currently they were reacting to the price drop this has further impact on the prices and gives opportunity for whales to make profits and left the traders suffers so traders need to see this strategy and plan accordingly.

deisik

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Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 11, 2019, 11:17:44 AM

While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens

From my perspective, things look a little bit different

We have recently seen a surge in volatility of Bitcoin prices, and that has a simple explanation as well as a straightforward implication and an obvious conclusion. The explanation is that these bouts of volatility are due to markets becoming thin (what can be seen by declining trading volumes)

Then, the implication is that with thin markets it takes less liquidity to move them in the desired direction, be it up or down, or even preventing such moves (as this is also a possibility and an option). All that leads us to a conclusion that Bitcoin is in fact getting easier to manipulate as trading volumes decline

Cnut237

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I think it is very revealing that the most vociferous opponents of bitcoin are exactly those people who have the most to lose if crypto is a success. People like that are the same as the oil company execs who say global warming is fake. If someone makes a pronouncement that bitcoin will succeed or fail, always the first question to ask is what does this person have to gain or to lose? Sometimes it is so transparent it is laughable. The louder these people become, the more their predictions start to look like desperate wishful thinking rather than cold hard logical analysis.

Getmon

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Quote from: Wysi on November 12, 2019, 03:33:42 AM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 12, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

I don't think we can expect such a huge increase as things can go either way, I think our own analysis can help us in order to take right decisions because as per current market situation we cannot believe any prediction. We need to consider Litecoin halving and XLM burning half of it's unused tokens which did not have any significant impact on price increase.

There was an effect actually. People are looking back at the previous halvings. There were effects, or at least the price of Bitcoin pumped following the halving. Whether those effects could really be attributed solely to the reward halving itself, we cannot be sure. As with Stellar burning billions of their tokens, there was also an immediate pump that followed. That was not a huge pump though, not even reaching 50%.

Wysi

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 12, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

I don't think we can expect such a huge increase as things can go either way, I think our own analysis can help us in order to take right decisions because as per current market situation we cannot believe any prediction. We need to consider Litecoin halving and XLM burning half of it's unused tokens which did not have any significant impact on price increase.

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I think we will be better off making our Bitcoin investment decisions based on the opposite of what Peter Schiff are saying, because he has been more correct with his incorrect predictions than he was with the accurate predictions. Grin

A lot of so-called experts will make say 20 incorrect guesses and when one prediction are accurate, people will celebrate their genius. I think Peter Schiff is one of those people and at one stage he will get lucky and people will follow him like sheep to the slaughter. Wink

Just 15 predictions to go, he might get lucky soon. Roll Eyes

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

Mometaskers

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Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

If this proves to be true, it's likely an effort to snag REALLY cheap coins in preparation for another cycle of boom. Some expect the price to hit as high as $100k upon halving. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime if you've held out this long, might as well hold on for a few more months and bet on the predicted rise upon halving.

wheelz1200

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Quote from: ecnalubma on October 30, 2019, 12:04:16 PM

Quote

Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.

Source

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

It's a bit of both. While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens. Bitcoin is still in the phase where new peoe are learning about it each day so I think a lot of it has to do with peoe on boarding as well. The halving coming up also has some people buying ahead of that event as well. Could it crash yup, could it spike yep. Point is buy bit by bit and dont worry about the short term ups and downs unless you are a trader.

exstasie

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I saw another bearish Peter Schiff prophecy in my Twitter feed today. CryptoBull puts it into perfect context:

Schiff is like every other BTC perma-bear I've ever seen, always celebrating end-stage selloffs without realizing the market is bottoming.

I doubt we'll see prices any lower than $8,500.

Pamadar

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 05, 2019, 04:06:24 AM

One of the most profitable strategy used by whales is moving the market in the wrong direction especially when there are lot of good news hanging around and investors might thing this is going to be a price boom in the near future but they will dump the market and crash most currencies prices then will buy back at more cheaper then the prices will starts to increase and investors will again start hoping for this will be bullish.

Whales are whales, they are not affected of any news or any technical analysis. The sooner they seen there's opportunities coming from the open market they will simply grab it. Most of the time those whales dives to the deepest creating artificial downfall and waits for weak holders to panic and sell out everything. Those poor investors that being victimized loses their money since whales will buy it back and grab more coins inside their bags.

Topic: Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff - page 2. (Read 898 times)