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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 26. (Read 378980 times)

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Over at the mental ward...

Quote from: VeritasSapere
I often find that my writing is most inspired when countering opposing viewpoints.

You need to check your ego young man  Cheesy

Your writing is neither inspiring nor does it counter anything not resembling a collection of strawmen.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
-snip-
XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.

What's your take on when we do the segwitness altcoin?

You are confusing soft forks (segwitness) and hard forks (XT/Unlimiturd).

I don't think segwit will happen anytime Soon.  If/when it's implemented, it will be because of a genuine need as agreed/recognized by the socioeconomic majority, not because of a whining Gavinista minority of Redditurd bury brigades.

So you disagree with hdbuck and MP. How about when we fork to a modest 2MiB while segwit is tested? Altcoin?

2MB = HARD FORK = ALTCOIN = FAIL

Bitcoin hardforked already.

Oh my bad, I forgot to accommodate your learning disability and spell it out for you.

Here, is this better for helping you to understand why XT got #rekt?


2MB = CONTENTIOUS HARD FORK = ALTCOIN = FAIL
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
salt..

Quote
This denigration of signatures represents nothing less than an attack on the primacy of cryptography in cryptocurrency. The blockchain represents a complete and verifiable historical record of every transaction and balance in Bitcoin. Attacking verifiability by lopping off signatures in a misguided effort to cram more transactions into a megabyte. This leaves a eunuch which is no longer the virile Bitcoin we love. As signatures fade into history, cryptographic certainty is replaced by faith and hope.

Quote
Ultimately, it is about increasing the number of places where Bitcoin can break and reducing the prominence of cryptography in cryptocurrency.

http://qntra.net/2015/12/after-xt-failure-gavin-andresen-supports-jim-crow-for-signatures-on-the-blockchain/


and pepper... http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

Sorry I can't offer a knee-jerk reaction to this.  I need more time and information to produce commentary of value.

As with sidechains, I will by default fight this feature.  But I will also hope that fight is similarly futile and the new feature will prove worthy of adding value to Bitcoin.   Tongue

How about the knee jerk reaction that death threats aren't helpful?

its not a threat, it's a cryptographically signed message.

to show you noob the cryptography in cryptocurrency, but not so surprisingly all you kid can see is "ofmg de4th threat"!!

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
-snip-
XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.

What's your take on when we do the segwitness altcoin?

You are confusing soft forks (segwitness) and hard forks (XT/Unlimiturd).

I don't think segwit will happen anytime Soon.  If/when it's implemented, it will be because of a genuine need as agreed/recognized by the socioeconomic majority, not because of a whining Gavinista minority of Redditurd bury brigades.

So you disagree with hdbuck and MP. How about when we fork to a modest 2MiB while segwit is tested? Altcoin?

2MB = HARD FORK = ALTCOIN = FAIL

Bitcoin hardforked already.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Thanks to /u/bitcoinworld for demonstrating /r/btc is a haven for witch hunting, public lynchings, and mob rule.


An euphemism of an uncensored place. The infiltration failed. Sensor ship destroyed.

O RLY?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3us1kl/free_jstolfi/

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3us1kl/free_jstolfi/cxioupa

Trollfi is welcome on /r/bitcoin (subject to the normal moderation/rules) but banned for no apparent reason from /r/btc.

So much for your "uncensored place."  That sensor ship has sailed.   Grin

The Bigblockers fighted there against censorship - and won.
The Smallblockers fight for censorship. That's the difference.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
salt..

Quote
This denigration of signatures represents nothing less than an attack on the primacy of cryptography in cryptocurrency. The blockchain represents a complete and verifiable historical record of every transaction and balance in Bitcoin. Attacking verifiability by lopping off signatures in a misguided effort to cram more transactions into a megabyte. This leaves a eunuch which is no longer the virile Bitcoin we love. As signatures fade into history, cryptographic certainty is replaced by faith and hope.

Quote
Ultimately, it is about increasing the number of places where Bitcoin can break and reducing the prominence of cryptography in cryptocurrency.

http://qntra.net/2015/12/after-xt-failure-gavin-andresen-supports-jim-crow-for-signatures-on-the-blockchain/


and pepper... http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

Sorry I can't offer a knee-jerk reaction to this.  I need more time and information to produce commentary of value.

As with sidechains, I will by default fight this feature.  But I will also hope that fight is similarly futile and the new feature will prove worthy of adding value to Bitcoin.   Tongue

How about the knee jerk reaction that death threats aren't helpful?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
salt..

Quote
This denigration of signatures represents nothing less than an attack on the primacy of cryptography in cryptocurrency. The blockchain represents a complete and verifiable historical record of every transaction and balance in Bitcoin. Attacking verifiability by lopping off signatures in a misguided effort to cram more transactions into a megabyte. This leaves a eunuch which is no longer the virile Bitcoin we love. As signatures fade into history, cryptographic certainty is replaced by faith and hope.

Quote
Ultimately, it is about increasing the number of places where Bitcoin can break and reducing the prominence of cryptography in cryptocurrency.

http://qntra.net/2015/12/after-xt-failure-gavin-andresen-supports-jim-crow-for-signatures-on-the-blockchain/


and pepper... http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

Sorry I can't offer a knee-jerk reaction to this.  I need more time and information to produce commentary of value.

As with sidechains, I will by default fight this feature.  But I will also hope that fight is similarly futile and the new feature will prove worthy of adding value to Bitcoin.   Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Ever feel like you had to tell a joke twice before someone laughed?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
salt..

Quote
This denigration of signatures represents nothing less than an attack on the primacy of cryptography in cryptocurrency. The blockchain represents a complete and verifiable historical record of every transaction and balance in Bitcoin. Attacking verifiability by lopping off signatures in a misguided effort to cram more transactions into a megabyte. This leaves a eunuch which is no longer the virile Bitcoin we love. As signatures fade into history, cryptographic certainty is replaced by faith and hope.

Quote
Ultimately, it is about increasing the number of places where Bitcoin can break and reducing the prominence of cryptography in cryptocurrency.

http://qntra.net/2015/12/after-xt-failure-gavin-andresen-supports-jim-crow-for-signatures-on-the-blockchain/


and pepper... http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
-snip-
XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.

What's your take on when we do the segwitness altcoin?

You are confusing soft forks (segwitness) and hard forks (XT/Unlimiturd).

I don't think segwit will happen anytime Soon.  If/when it's implemented, it will be because of a genuine need as agreed/recognized by the socioeconomic majority, not because of a whining Gavinista minority of Redditurd bury brigades.

So you disagree with hdbuck and MP. How about when we fork to a modest 2MiB while segwit is tested? Altcoin?

2MB = HARD FORK = ALTCOIN = FAIL

IDK what hdbuck and MP think about segwit (SOFT fork).  Links?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
-snip-
XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.

What's your take on when we do the segwitness altcoin?

You are confusing soft forks (segwitness) and hard forks (XT/Unlimiturd).

I don't think segwit will happen anytime Soon.  If/when it's implemented, it will be because of a genuine need as agreed/recognized by the socioeconomic majority, not because of a whining Gavinista minority of Redditurd bury brigades.

So you disagree with hdbuck and MP. How about when we fork to a modest 2MiB while segwit is tested? Altcoin?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
-snip-
XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.

What's your take on when we do the segwitness altcoin?

You are confusing soft forks (segwitness) and hard forks (XT/Unlimiturd).

I don't think segwit will happen anytime Soon.  If/when it's implemented, it will be because of a genuine need as agreed/recognized by the socioeconomic majority, not because of a whining Gavinista minority of Redditurd bury brigades.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
-snip-
XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.

What's your take on when we do the segwitness altcoin?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Bitcoin XT has a bandwidth throttling option, which is a useful feature to have. Bitcoin Unlimited will be implementing this as well when it is released.



XT/Unlimiturd = Worst Altcoins Ever.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
hmm ...

My computer from 2008 has actually no problem at all keeping up with not just the Bitcoin blockchain but also the Namecoin and Monero blockchains all at the same time. Until August of this year I ran a Bitcoin node on a laptop from 2002 with a Pentium M processor, 1 GB of RAM and a 120 MB SSD. The laptop was so old that it was cheaper to replace the old PATA HDD when it failed with a PATA SSD. The laptop also has a floppy disk drive and a Windows 2000 logo.

Lack of education, indifference are part of the issue. The biggest problem is the replacement of desktop and laptop computers with mobile devices that while perfectly capable are crippled with DRM and propriety operating systems. A iPad in a good example of the latter, and can be far more expensive than a 3 year old laptop with a 1 TB SSD drive.

How much bandwidth is Core using per month? What are your maximum download/upload speeds from your ISP (and how much does it cost)? How many peers are you connected to on a regular basis? Do you have any special settings in your config file (fee rules or connection limits)?

I have dedicated hardware for my node (building computers is a hobby of mine, so I probably go overboard there), yet sharing Bitcoin data with my peers is where I am having issues. I've had to limit the number of peers that my node will allow or my internet service slows to a crawl for other purposes. I pay quite a bit for top tier (enthusiast) internet speeds from a major ISP.

Or, are you simply saying that your old computer can sync the chain at which point you shut it down?

I have 50 mbps down 10 mbps up with no cap residential ADSL. Running all three blockchains as a full node with ports open is about 400 GB per month.

Edit: I added the no cap option for an extra 15 CAD a month, The plan comes with 400 GB of data per month. Cost including a home POTS phone line is 132.50 CAD a month including all taxes.

I have similar speeds (faster download, same upload) and our discussion convinced me to increase the maxconnections allowed by my node to 50 (from 30). In a span of 6 days, my node downloaded 5 GB and uploaded 110 GB of block chain data.

The problem is that during this span, I often have a noticeable slow down of other internet traffic. During these times of heavy Core uploading, web traffic slows to a crawl and streaming video is out of the question. If my ISP offered a faster (upload) tier, I would purchase it, but I do not have the option. I live in a relatively (to the rest of the world) developed location. If I lived in a more remote (less developed) area, or had to send all of my Bitcoin traffic through ToR (I shouldn't need to explain why that could become a reality), I would have an even more difficult time running a full node. If the amount of data I need to share is drastically increased, I would have a difficult time at my current location.

I'm not great with the QoS settings on my router or perhaps I could improve my experience. Perhaps some of the changes coming to Core that I've read about will help. In the meantime, I've had to reduce the maxconnections allowed. I just can't see how anyone would want to drastically increase the amount of data needed to be shared while going through the same user experience as me.

I think Core should remain something that a Bitcoin enthusiast (willing to spend a decent amount of money doing so) like myself can continue to run semi-easily, even if circumstances arise which may make that more difficult (certain groups deciding that Bitcoin data should be censored, for example).

In other words, the network should remain robust ("lite and tight" as tvbcof would say).

Any quality peer to peer software, such as a reasonable bittorent client, comes with a control window that can be configured to limit upload bandwidth.  If you set this to about 50% of your available upload bandwidth through your ISP then any problems with slow response will be avoided.  For some years I used this technique with bittorrent clients and file sync programs.  I was appalled when I started running bitcoin and discovered that the client lacked these elementary features.  I was even more appalled after I complained and some of the core developers tried to make excuses for this sad situation.  Lately, the talk from a (former?) core developer is that this deficiency will be "fixed in the next release" of Bitcoin Core.

There are two things you can do to get around this problem.  First, do not open port 8333.  This will eliminate the possibility of newbies leaching off of your limited bandwidth to download the entire block chain.  Second, figure out how to set up the QoS features in your router.  After you have done this you may then want to try reopening port 8333 in your router.  With an open port and a QoS setting, you may still find a fair amount of upload traffic.  You can limit this by configuring your node to use a modest number of ports.  When I was running an open port on my node over a DSL connection, I found that about 30 ports total gave me about the same upload traffic as download traffic, i.e. my node was contributing as much bandwidth to the network as it was using.

If you are interested in running a full bitcoin node with an open port, be prepared for a bunch of hassles, up to and including being a target of a DDoS attack.  If you are just interested in using bitcoin and don't want to get into a bunch of technical details it would be better to just run a lightweight client, such as Electrum or Multibit HD, both of which install and run quickly with no hassles.
Bitcoin XT has a bandwidth throttling option, which is a useful feature to have. Bitcoin Unlimited will be implementing this as well when it is released.
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 254
hmm ...

My computer from 2008 has actually no problem at all keeping up with not just the Bitcoin blockchain but also the Namecoin and Monero blockchains all at the same time. Until August of this year I ran a Bitcoin node on a laptop from 2002 with a Pentium M processor, 1 GB of RAM and a 120 MB SSD. The laptop was so old that it was cheaper to replace the old PATA HDD when it failed with a PATA SSD. The laptop also has a floppy disk drive and a Windows 2000 logo.

Lack of education, indifference are part of the issue. The biggest problem is the replacement of desktop and laptop computers with mobile devices that while perfectly capable are crippled with DRM and propriety operating systems. A iPad in a good example of the latter, and can be far more expensive than a 3 year old laptop with a 1 TB SSD drive.

How much bandwidth is Core using per month? What are your maximum download/upload speeds from your ISP (and how much does it cost)? How many peers are you connected to on a regular basis? Do you have any special settings in your config file (fee rules or connection limits)?

I have dedicated hardware for my node (building computers is a hobby of mine, so I probably go overboard there), yet sharing Bitcoin data with my peers is where I am having issues. I've had to limit the number of peers that my node will allow or my internet service slows to a crawl for other purposes. I pay quite a bit for top tier (enthusiast) internet speeds from a major ISP.

Or, are you simply saying that your old computer can sync the chain at which point you shut it down?

I have 50 mbps down 10 mbps up with no cap residential ADSL. Running all three blockchains as a full node with ports open is about 400 GB per month.

Edit: I added the no cap option for an extra 15 CAD a month, The plan comes with 400 GB of data per month. Cost including a home POTS phone line is 132.50 CAD a month including all taxes.

I have similar speeds (faster download, same upload) and our discussion convinced me to increase the maxconnections allowed by my node to 50 (from 30). In a span of 6 days, my node downloaded 5 GB and uploaded 110 GB of block chain data.

The problem is that during this span, I often have a noticeable slow down of other internet traffic. During these times of heavy Core uploading, web traffic slows to a crawl and streaming video is out of the question. If my ISP offered a faster (upload) tier, I would purchase it, but I do not have the option. I live in a relatively (to the rest of the world) developed location. If I lived in a more remote (less developed) area, or had to send all of my Bitcoin traffic through ToR (I shouldn't need to explain why that could become a reality), I would have an even more difficult time running a full node. If the amount of data I need to share is drastically increased, I would have a difficult time at my current location.

I'm not great with the QoS settings on my router or perhaps I could improve my experience. Perhaps some of the changes coming to Core that I've read about will help. In the meantime, I've had to reduce the maxconnections allowed. I just can't see how anyone would want to drastically increase the amount of data needed to be shared while going through the same user experience as me.

I think Core should remain something that a Bitcoin enthusiast (willing to spend a decent amount of money doing so) like myself can continue to run semi-easily, even if circumstances arise which may make that more difficult (certain groups deciding that Bitcoin data should be censored, for example).

In other words, the network should remain robust ("lite and tight" as tvbcof would say).

Any quality peer to peer software, such as a reasonable bittorent client, comes with a control window that can be configured to limit upload bandwidth.  If you set this to about 50% of your available upload bandwidth through your ISP then any problems with slow response will be avoided.  For some years I used this technique with bittorrent clients and file sync programs.  I was appalled when I started running bitcoin and discovered that the client lacked these elementary features.  I was even more appalled after I complained and some of the core developers tried to make excuses for this sad situation.  Lately, the talk from a (former?) core developer is that this deficiency will be "fixed in the next release" of Bitcoin Core.

There are two things you can do to get around this problem.  First, do not open port 8333.  This will eliminate the possibility of newbies leaching off of your limited bandwidth to download the entire block chain.  Second, figure out how to set up the QoS features in your router.  After you have done this you may then want to try reopening port 8333 in your router.  With an open port and a QoS setting, you may still find a fair amount of upload traffic.  You can limit this by configuring your node to use a modest number of ports.  When I was running an open port on my node over a DSL connection, I found that about 30 ports total gave me about the same upload traffic as download traffic, i.e. my node was contributing as much bandwidth to the network as it was using.

If you are interested in running a full bitcoin node with an open port, be prepared for a bunch of hassles, up to and including being a target of a DDoS attack.  If you are just interested in using bitcoin and don't want to get into a bunch of technical details it would be better to just run a lightweight client, such as Electrum or Multibit HD, both of which install and run quickly with no hassles.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
VeritasSapere's worst nightmare:

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
I'm confused  Huh

First you argue...

I think Bitcoin can do both, and that these different aspects of Bitcoin actually reinforce each other. I also do not think Bitcoin will become a world reserve currency without experiencing mass adoption as a currency for the people first, history also certainly supports this theory as well.

to which I reply...

It doesn't.

hdbuck, always the sharp guy, understands what is being insinuated...

did "teh mass" ever had gold in any meaningful way?

hmnope.

By now I'd expect your are still clueless as to what it is I'm trying to lead you to so, to be clear, the argument goes:

Something does not need to be "mass adopted" for it to become a "world reserve currency".

It just needs to be the predilect form of money for relevant* economic actors in the society. Case in point: gold.

*masses != relevant
First of all I do not appreciate you quoting me saying something that I never said, please refrain yourself from doing this, you have done this before and it is libel, slander and fraud.

My argument is that commodity money in the form of precious metal coins, have been the predominant form of currency for the majority of our known history, this is true. Furthermore that Bitcoin will not become a world reserve currency without mass adoption first. Unless you seriously believe that the banks and current financial status quo will voluntarily give up their source of power thereby in effect weakening their position, it is safe to assume that most people will not give up their power, this is well established in political thought and psychology.

We can circumvent and undermine their systems of command and control instead by adopting Bitcoin, only then would the status quo have to adopt Bitcoin in order to stay relevant. In regards to history supporting my argument, it does. You are missing out on the fact that during the long transition phase where we went from precious metals being the predominant form of currency moving towards paper money, this paper was still backed by gold. It was only until the nineteen seventies that the gold standard was abandoned completely. This is why my historical example still holds true.

In other words, after precious metals ceased to be the predominant form of currency, paper backed by precious metals became the predominant form of currency in the world, in this case gold. Over time of course this asset was eroded, first by fractional reserve banking in the nineteen thirties and later by the complete abolishment of the gold standard in the seventies. Therefore the masses did have gold in a meaningful way, this asset has been stolen from the people. This is the bait and switch that has been played on us by the governments and banks. Bitcoin allows us to have a true asset based currency again, a return to sound money. Money for the people by the people.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
hdbuck, always the sharp guy, understands what is being insinuated...

did "teh mass" ever had gold in any meaningful way?

hmnope.

 Grin Tell me another one...  Cheesy

But at least you understand that BIP101 will increase the risk of centralization. However for SW proposal, I totally don't understand anything at all: By changing the bitcoin architecture, Pieter essentially change it to something else, an alt-coin. So all the talks about SW should go into alt-coin section, not here. And all this large degree of deviation from Satoshi's original design for what? A mere one time increase for capacity of light nodes, not even helping full nodes?

I've been quite surprised by your reaction to this proposal.

It's as if you're being intentionally obtuse because clearly you are making no effort at understanding SW and overexagerate its complexity.

Whether or not you agree with its motivations and underlying ideology SW is pretty straight forward.

straight forward in cutting out the cryptographic signatures out of the blockchain... to allow more spam.

thank you but no thank you.

forkers should create their own altcoin already.


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