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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 21. (Read 378991 times)

legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
Does Gavin have this power??
Yes, he always had it, and he isn't using it.

Anyway, it will be meaningless action.
I wish he would [censor the contributors out of the Bitcoin Core repo as suggested by Rizun.]  It would take about 3 minutes for a replacement (or 15) to pop up.  
This was already discussed before. The alert keys are also held by Gavin IIRC and they have not been removed because an abuse attempt would be stopped within minutes and Gavin would lose all credibility and become one of the most hated persons in the Bitcoin world. Peter R's suggestion just confirms what we have known all along, he's paid by someone to do this.
Luckily XT is living its final days.

And Gavin is paid by the US Governement. This we know for sure.

Are you paid by Blockstream, too?

Nope sry wrong conspiracy.

Still Gavin is on a USG payroll.

Peter Todd and BtcDrak have their very own shitcoin. Why do you have to get personal tho?

nothing personal, just stating that Gavin is paid by the Government of the United States of America.

Ah and has openly met with CIA.

This is the result of complexity: When a complex solution can not be fully understood by the stakeholder, the potential risk will make people start to question the trustworthiness of the solution provider, and then it will diverge the discussion to political and personal interest behind that solution

Imagine that Gavin promoted a block size increase of 0.5MB, he would not have faced such large resistance from the community. But 8MB is just too large a change that brings so many complex scenario that are not able to be understood by miners and node operators

Similarly, I see the same challenge with SW solution, the stakeholders would question the political and personal interest behind SW if they could not fully understand SW
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination

During the July and September spam attack, almost every block was full, but there were only a few users complained about the confirmation speed because they did not include enough fee. So the fee market is far from reaching its pain point, and people will adapt to the rising fee by reduce transaction frequency or use other solutions

And of course you can't compete with payment processors, web wallet service providers and exchanges fee wise, since they send hundreds or thousands of coins at once and can afford much larger fee. But that's exactly the point, large and frequent transactions should only be done by large actors and they are the backbone of the ecosystem. Rest of the people will be using off-chain services for daily spending, so that they can get many consumer oriented features. And every one should still be able to do low frequency high value transfer so that the long term storage security and convenience is not affected.

I think this also comes down to whether we want Bitcoin to be used as a currency directly without third parties or not, I presume you do not think this is possible, I do think this is possible, which is fine. However I would argue that if it is possible being able to do both is actually better since adding more utility to Bitcoin does in turn make it a better store of value. It is Bitcoins utility that I believe even sets it apart from gold as a store of value. After all we can not sprinkle gold dust down a phone line and send it across the world cheaply in a matter of seconds without relying on third parties, we can do this with Bitcoin and I do not think that we should change this. I did sign up for the original vision of a p2p electronic cash system after all.

As the chart below shows we are approaching and will exceed network capacity within a few months if this trend continues.



It is a very efficient way to use subway to do passenger transport in big cities, all the passengers must board on the same train (centralized service nodes). If all the passengers wants to drive their own car to their destination, then the total cost will be magnitudes higher than centralized service provider, and quickly becomes unfeasible when infrastructure can not handle it any more

In some large cities in China they have already limited the cars that can be driven during a certain day based on its registration nr. Simply because the infrastructure can not grow exponentially following the car growth

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

It certainly doesn't depend on small blocks.


LULZ!!    Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
Gavin works for the USG anyway. Isn't it?

Yep, so pick your poison I guess

By the way:

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-faq

Tentative date for fully coded SW implementation : April 2016.

Sorry. I'm not up on the latest goings-on. Last I heard Gavin was working at MIT's Digital Currency Lab. Has he left to work for the Department of Defence? NSA? US Postal Service?
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Gavin works for the USG anyway. Isn't it?

Yep, so pick your poison I guess

By the way:

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-faq

Tentative date for fully coded SW implementation : April 2016.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
The market should decide. Not a bunch of corporate-types. Let the dogs run, I say.

@HdBuck

Gavin works at MIT. Am I wrong?

Market has decided.

Did you learn nothing from the XT fiasco?



I learned that a corporate interest has Core developers on their payroll and their LN depends on small blocks...

"Their LN"?

LN is an open source protocol.

One guy at Blockstream is contributing to an implementation, another team is working on their own.

It certainly doesn't depend on small blocks.

But of course you know that and you'll continue parotting the same stuff in the future even when you know you're wrong.

Gavin works for the USG anyway. Isn't it?
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
The market should decide. Not a bunch of corporate-types. Let the dogs run, I say.

@HdBuck

Gavin works at MIT. Am I wrong?

Market has decided.

Did you learn nothing from the XT fiasco?



I learned that a corporate interest has Core developers on their payroll and their LN depends on small blocks...

"Their LN"?

LN is an open source protocol.

One guy at Blockstream is contributing to an implementation, another team is working on their own.

It certainly doesn't depend on small blocks.

But of course you know that and you'll continue parotting the same stuff in the future even when you know you're wrong.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
The market should decide. Not a bunch of corporate-types. Let the dogs run, I say.

@HdBuck

Gavin works at MIT. Am I wrong?

Market has decided.

Did you learn nothing from the XT fiasco?



I learned that a corporate interest has Core developers on their payroll and their LN depends on small blocks...

Quote
Exchanges and other industry members that wish to join the Liquid sidechain must subscribe through Blockstream, which charges a monthly fee.


Business savvy Wink
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
The market should decide. Not a bunch of corporate-types. Let the dogs run, I say.

@HdBuck

Gavin works at MIT. Am I wrong?

Market has decided.

Did you learn nothing from the XT fiasco?

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
The market should decide. Not a bunch of corporate-types. Let the dogs run, I say.

@HdBuck

Gavin works at MIT. Am I wrong?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Does Gavin have this power??
Yes, he always had it, and he isn't using it.

Anyway, it will be meaningless action.
I wish he would [censor the contributors out of the Bitcoin Core repo as suggested by Rizun.]  It would take about 3 minutes for a replacement (or 15) to pop up.  
This was already discussed before. The alert keys are also held by Gavin IIRC and they have not been removed because an abuse attempt would be stopped within minutes and Gavin would lose all credibility and become one of the most hated persons in the Bitcoin world. Peter R's suggestion just confirms what we have known all along, he's paid by someone to do this.
Luckily XT is living its final days.

And Gavin is paid by the US Governement. This we know for sure.

Are you paid by Blockstream, too?

Nope sry wrong conspiracy.

Still Gavin is on a USG payroll.

Peter Todd and BtcDrak have their very own shitcoin. Why do you have to get personal tho?

nothing personal, just stating that Gavin is paid by the Government of the United States of America.

Ah and has openly met with CIA.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
If Gavin has the power to do it how is it a non-starter?



Do you really believe Gavin wanna go there?

I don't see why not.

Well I guess you're right cause once you've lost all credibility the only thing left is to carry along doing the same things that made you lose it in the first place: break stuff
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
If Gavin has the power to do it how is it a non-starter?



Do you really believe Gavin wanna go there?

I don't see why not.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
Does Gavin have this power??
Yes, he always had it, and he isn't using it.

Anyway, it will be meaningless action.
I wish he would [censor the contributors out of the Bitcoin Core repo as suggested by Rizun.]  It would take about 3 minutes for a replacement (or 15) to pop up. 
This was already discussed before. The alert keys are also held by Gavin IIRC and they have not been removed because an abuse attempt would be stopped within minutes and Gavin would lose all credibility and become one of the most hated persons in the Bitcoin world. Peter R's suggestion just confirms what we have known all along, he's paid by someone to do this.
Luckily XT is living its final days.

And Gavin is paid by the US Governement. This we know for sure.

Are you paid by Blockstream, too?

Nope sry wrong conspiracy.

Still Gavin is on a USG payroll.

Peter Todd and BtcDrak have their very own shitcoin. Why do you have to get personal tho?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Does Gavin have this power??
Yes, he always had it, and he isn't using it.

Anyway, it will be meaningless action.
I wish he would [censor the contributors out of the Bitcoin Core repo as suggested by Rizun.]  It would take about 3 minutes for a replacement (or 15) to pop up. 
This was already discussed before. The alert keys are also held by Gavin IIRC and they have not been removed because an abuse attempt would be stopped within minutes and Gavin would lose all credibility and become one of the most hated persons in the Bitcoin world. Peter R's suggestion just confirms what we have known all along, he's paid by someone to do this.
Luckily XT is living its final days.

And Gavin is paid by the US Governement. This we know for sure.

Are you paid by Blockstream, too?

Nope sry wrong conspiracy.

Still Gavin is on a USG payroll.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Does Gavin have this power??
Yes, he always had it, and he isn't using it.

Anyway, it will be meaningless action.
I wish he would [censor the contributors out of the Bitcoin Core repo as suggested by Rizun.]  It would take about 3 minutes for a replacement (or 15) to pop up. 
This was already discussed before. The alert keys are also held by Gavin IIRC and they have not been removed because an abuse attempt would be stopped within minutes and Gavin would lose all credibility and become one of the most hated persons in the Bitcoin world. Peter R's suggestion just confirms what we have known all along, he's paid by someone to do this.
Luckily XT is living its final days.

And Gavin is paid by the US Governement. This we know for sure.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
Does Gavin have this power??
Yes, he always had it, and he isn't using it.

Anyway, it will be meaningless action.
I wish he would [censor the contributors out of the Bitcoin Core repo as suggested by Rizun.]  It would take about 3 minutes for a replacement (or 15) to pop up. 
This was already discussed before. The alert keys are also held by Gavin IIRC and they have not been removed because an abuse attempt would be stopped within minutes and Gavin would lose all credibility and become one of the most hated persons in the Bitcoin world. Peter R's suggestion just confirms what we have known all along, he's paid by someone to do this.
Luckily XT is living its final days.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
I did sign up for the original vision of a p2p electronic cash system after all.

As the chart below shows we are approaching and will exceed network capacity within a few months if this trend continues.

Yet another highly misleading post.

https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-block-size?timespan=2year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Graph here shows we still sit at around 60-70% of capacity with clear headroom for at least another year especially when considering the immediate impact of SW implementation.

I'm not even going to adress the bastardization of the "cash" term so often misinterpreted and casually thrown around without consideration for its meaning and outright dismissal of the arguably more important "p2p" term before it.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Allowing the blocks to become consistently full will render transacting on the Bitcoin network more unreliable and expensive. This should not be considered a good thing this early in Bitcoins development, especially considering that adoption is tantamount to increasing the security and decentralization of the network.

Furthermore it is not just the case that we will have to be pay more for transacting, but that there will not be enough space for everyone to transact regardless of the fee that we pay. Since under such a model most average users would not be able to compete with payments processors, banks and other large institutions over block space. However I do not believe that it would even get to that point in the first place, since firstly we would fork before that happened, and secondly I do not believe such a system would gain sufficient adoption especially compared to superior alternatives that would exist concurrently in the free market.

During the July and September spam attack, almost every block was full, but there were only a few users complained about the confirmation speed because they did not include enough fee. So the fee market is far from reaching its pain point, and people will adapt to the rising fee by reduce transaction frequency or use other solutions

And of course you can't compete with payment processors, web wallet service providers and exchanges fee wise, since they send hundreds or thousands of coins at once and can afford much larger fee. But that's exactly the point, large and frequent transactions should only be done by large actors and they are the backbone of the ecosystem. Rest of the people will be using off-chain services for daily spending, so that they can get many consumer oriented features. And every one should still be able to do low frequency high value transfer so that the long term storage security and convenience is not affected.
I think this also comes down to whether we want Bitcoin to be used as a currency directly without third parties or not, I presume you do not think this is possible, I do think this is possible, which is fine. However I would argue that if it is possible being able to do both is actually better since adding more utility to Bitcoin does in turn make it a better store of value. It is Bitcoins utility that I believe even sets it apart from gold as a store of value. After all we can not sprinkle gold dust down a phone line and send it across the world cheaply in a matter of seconds without relying on third parties, we can do this with Bitcoin and I do not think that we should change this. I did sign up for the original vision of a p2p electronic cash system after all.

As the chart below shows we are approaching and will exceed network capacity within a few months if this trend continues.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
I am starting to think that this is the best solution, there are irronconcielable ideological differences here, that seem irresolvable otherwise, at least this way we will all still have the Bitcoin we want. I also think that this bests reflects the ethos of freedom and decentralization within Bitcoin.
We've been telling you forever to fork off. You dissenters are a minority and nothing else.

If you're not happy with the current development then move forward with your implementations and leave us the fuck alone.

If your code stands up to its own merits it will gain adoption but don't expect us Bitcoiners to be steered in by your political propaganda. No amount of bullshit is going to cover up for your technical ineptitudes.
I am starting to think that you are in the minority now, however this is difficult to measure or know, since we do not have any reliable metrics, and the forums tend to be disproportionately represented by people like us, the writers. Which is why proof of work as a consensus mechanism during a hard fork is really so wonderful. We will get to see what people really think when the market talks to us then. I look forward to that time when the pedal goes to the metal and people will put their money where their mouths are. We will see what happens, either way I am confident the fork to increase the blocksize will happen soon, I will be happy regardless of the support that it gains, since it will represent the freedom of choice, and that Bitcoin is truly free, governed by the economic self-interest of the masses.
Bitcoin will not hardfork anytime soon. Your only chance to do so, XT, failed miserably.

The miners are already getting behind Core's proposal and anyone trying to interject will simply be left behind.

Meanwhile you're free to spin-off your own altcoin because it's only going to get worse for you and your clique from here on out.
Yet you are the one that is continuously attempting to make it out as if there is consensus, when clearly there is not. Some of your comments even seem angry and hateful. There are differences of believe, which will most likely lead to a fork, whether you like it or not. I earnestly recommend you not to sell the coins from the other side, even though you insult, attack and disrespect me. I still wish you prosperity, peace, love and happiness.

You deserve no respect.

You are a blatantly disingenuous individual out to mislead people through political manipulation and outright lies.

You've made no attempt to learn from your previous mistakes and ignorant assumptions. You continue to pretend understanding issues you have no clear grasp of and naively play into the hands of shameless charlatans who prey on weak minds.

You've repeatedly stated you were open to compromise and previously claimed you supported XT only because it was the only scaling proposition currently implemented.

Now that we have a cogent alternative that has garnered support out of most of the developing community you refuse to budge or compromise and consider the benefits of the aforementioned proposal.

There is indeed no consensus hence why there is no hard fork.

There was no consensus either for opt-in RBF yet it got implemented, because it's a softfork.
There was no consensus either for CLTV yet it got implemented, because it's a softfork.

I think you can guess where we're heading, with or without you  Wink
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