BitcoinBourse: the biggest scam in Bitcoin securities today - page 3.

fluffypony

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Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 04:41:39 PM

Firstly, Peter, excellent response above. Really made me take a step back and rethink.

Until now..

They charge a 30 BTC fee?

Their largest stock by a mile is their own stock. This just makes them a huge Ponzi scheme no?

All this talk of failing stocks on havelock, when was the last time mpex listed a successful stock?

You don't have to pay the fee unless you have a specific reason to (institutional investor, etc.)

Just use a brokerage like CoinBr (which is cheap as chips), here's my referral link: https://coinbr.com/ref?c=M1rswGFFjv

Peter Lambert

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Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 04:41:39 PM

Firstly, Peter, excellent response above. Really made me take a step back and rethink.

Until now..

They charge a 30 BTC fee?

Their largest stock by a mile is their own stock. This just makes them a huge Ponzi scheme no?

All this talk of failing stocks on havelock, when was the last time mpex listed a successful stock?

The 30 btc lets you trade directly on the exchange. You can get that lowered by having a referral. You can also use a broker and entirely avoid paying that fee (for example, you could use CoinBr). I seem to remember Havelock saying they charge 1 btc per month to have a an asset listed on their exchange. Even without the referral discount, that 30 btc fee for registering with MPEx is only 2.5 years of monthly fees at Havelock. If you do not think your company will last more than two years, maybe you should not be selling stock in it and should secure a loan instead.

First, define what you mean by successful? Better question is when was the last time mpex listed an unsuccessful stock? If you look at Havelock, almost nothing is above the IPO price. The stocks on MPEx are pretty much all up from where they started.

davout

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Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 04:41:39 PM

They charge a 30 BTC fee?

The rationale is that they don't want to bother with small timers.
Pretty much the same on the NYSE, seats are fucking expensive.

Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 04:41:39 PM

Their largest stock by a mile is their own stock. This just makes them a huge Ponzi scheme no?

Your conclusion does not really follow logically from your premise.

Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 04:41:39 PM

All this talk of failing stocks on havelock, when was the last time mpex listed a successful stock?

Satoshidice got listed there, made me money :-)

mikemikemike

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Firstly, Peter, excellent response above. Really made me take a step back and rethink.

Until now..

They charge a 30 BTC fee?

Their largest stock by a mile is their own stock. This just makes them a huge Ponzi scheme no?

All this talk of failing stocks on havelock, when was the last time mpex listed a successful stock?

fluffypony

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Quote from: Anotheranonlol on May 09, 2014, 02:42:50 PM

Quote from: railzand on May 09, 2014, 12:44:31 PM

Decentralised exchanges don't make sense. You need a human to run a business. It is a human activity.

next you'll be telling me decentralised currencies are nonsensical too and we require bank managers because thats a human activity.

You've not eliminated the requirement for undertaking adequate due diligence prior to investment (asset issuer can still go ahead and steal investors coins) but you don't run the risk of exchange operator running fractional reserve, being shuttered by team america world police, getting hot/cold wallets emptied and crying we've been hackd!1 etc, because you're dealing with a protocol; that's benefits talking about here.

All great in theory, but institutional investors need things that a decentralised exchange could never provide, and they will never achieve the speed required to operate at comparable levels with a centralised exchange. Things like binary trade protocols, for instance, will either be hard to implement or useless (due to the inherent lag with distributed datasets).

You also forget that due diligence is just the first step in a process. Action must sometimes be taken by the exchange to, for instance, delist a security where there is attempted trade book manipulation, or where the operator is proving themselves untrustworthy. A decentralised exchange won't have that, so scams will just stay up forever.

fluffypony

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Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

MPEx is a scam, and this is one of his shells. The owner of MPEx has multiple aliases that he posts boosting his own image. The first post "Peter Lambert" posted on this thread, was a copy paste they have posted on other security threads before.

[citation needed]

Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

MPEx is being investigated by the SEC, and there is a fair chance the MPEx owner will be charged and extradited in the next year or so. Google it, there are a few articles about it. Not to mention the ridiculous 30 BTC fee, and a site that looks like its pre 2000.

Because the judgement call when determining an exchange to trade or list on should be whether it has a whole bunch of JS. It certainly shouldn't be "does it work" or "has it been around long enough to be trustworthy".

Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

Havelock is the best exchange, the NeoBee is a big loss, but you cannot put that solely on havelock. They have a great interface + fair fees.

Havelock isn't registered with the Panama's SMV - since you seem to think that the MPEx owner is going to be extradited by the SEC, how long do you think Havelock will last considering their false claims of local compliance?

Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

Personally, I like cryptostocks except for the amount of scams on it, use a good password + 2FA and your account should be good to go.

"Personally, I like being beaten regularly with a pole except for the head trauma and bleeding involved." - AcoinL.L.C, 2014

Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

I also like litecoininvest, but its LTC only at the moment.

I happen to really like the interactions I've had with Ethera, I think he's a great guy and quite savvy. He was fast off the bat when LTC-Global shuttered, and he got LitecoinInvest up in record time. When the exchange has been around and reasonably scam free for 2+ years I will definitely consider using it.

Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

Cheers

Bye

Peter Lambert

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Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

MPEx is a scam, and this is one of his shells. The owner of MPEx has multiple aliases that he posts boosting his own image. The first post "Peter Lambert" posted on this thread, was a copy paste they have posted on other security threads before.

MPEx is being investigated by the SEC, and there is a fair chance the MPEx owner will be charged and extradited in the next year or so. Google it, there are a few articles about it. Not to mention the ridiculous 30 BTC fee, and a site that looks like its pre 2000.

Havelock is the best exchange, the NeoBee is a big loss, but you cannot put that solely on havelock. They have a great interface + fair fees. Personally, I like cryptostocks except for the amount of scams on it, use a good password + 2FA and your account should be good to go. I also like litecoininvest, but its LTC only at the moment.

Cheers

Oh, I copy/pasted my reply? Then I bet you could point to where I copied it from ... I'll wait, take your time.

Havelock should look to MPEx for how to publish timely, informative financial reports. Cryptostocks is great, if you are the kind of guy who invests in places that guarantee to "return half your money in half a year, or less!"

davout

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Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

Personally, I like cryptostocks except for the amount of scams on it

Personnally I like eating shit, it just tastes a little bit like feces

Quote from: AcoinL.L.C on May 09, 2014, 03:38:52 PM

use a good password + 2FA and your account should be good to go

but with a pinch of salt it's just fine.

AcoinL.L.C

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MPEx is a scam, and this is one of his shells. The owner of MPEx has multiple aliases that he posts boosting his own image. The first post "Peter Lambert" posted on this thread, was a copy paste they have posted on other security threads before.

MPEx is being investigated by the SEC, and there is a fair chance the MPEx owner will be charged and extradited in the next year or so. Google it, there are a few articles about it. Not to mention the ridiculous 30 BTC fee, and a site that looks like its pre 2000.

Havelock is the best exchange, the NeoBee is a big loss, but you cannot put that solely on havelock. They have a great interface + fair fees. Personally, I like cryptostocks except for the amount of scams on it, use a good password + 2FA and your account should be good to go. I also like litecoininvest, but its LTC only at the moment.

Cheers

davout

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Quote from: Anotheranonlol on May 09, 2014, 02:42:50 PM

next you'll be telling me decentralised currencies are nonsensical too and we require bank managers because thats a human activity.

You've not eliminated the requirement for undertaking adequate due diligence prior to investment (asset issuer can still go ahead and steal investors coins) but you don't run the risk of exchange operator running fractional reserve, being shuttered by team america world police, getting hot/cold wallets emptied and crying we've been hackd!1 etc, because you're dealing with a protocol; that's benefits talking about here.

OTOH it's reassuring to deal with an exchange that's obviously picky about the things it lists

Anotheranonlol

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Quote from: railzand on May 09, 2014, 12:44:31 PM

Decentralised exchanges don't make sense. You need a human to run a business. It is a human activity.

next you'll be telling me decentralised currencies are nonsensical too and we require bank managers because thats a human activity.

You've not eliminated the requirement for undertaking adequate due diligence prior to investment (asset issuer can still go ahead and steal investors coins) but you don't run the risk of exchange operator running fractional reserve, being shuttered by team america world police, getting hot/cold wallets emptied and crying we've been hackd!1 etc, because you're dealing with a protocol; that's benefits talking about here.

railzand

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Lux e tenebris

Another thing to bear in mind is that not all scammers start out meaning to scam. They have good intentions sometimes, but not enough knowledge about security, and end up getting hacked or worse.

Or they think they have a great business idea, but will not listen to critiques, and end up losing investors' money, but keeping the Rolls Royce for themselves.

Havelol is floundering, has lost money 2 months running and probably won't last the year out.
Cryptoshocks and bitconbourse have been adequately exposed itt and others.
Decentralised exchanges don't make sense. You need a human to run a business. It is a human activity.

So please, new bitcoin entrepreneurs, remember you are not special and different, your ideas have been heard many times and they have all failed. Read about these failures in this very forum.

For now, in the bitcoin world, you only have one way of succeeding rather than ending up ripping people off.

First, do your reading. Then swallow your pride, mask your distaste and ask Mr. Popescu and his team 'What's next?'

Peter Lambert

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Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 10:40:16 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on May 09, 2014, 10:37:16 AM

If they were faking volume, why would they only be doing it on one listing instead of all the stocks?

Because its their stock? It's allot easier to get away with?

Do you work with or are you friends with MP?

Are you actually Peter lambert or did you buy this account??

Sorry for all the questions but I can't for the life of me understand why you are recommending this exchange. You honestly think millions of dollars each week are traded in MPEx each week? Solely on the stock of the exchange itself?

The guy who runs MPEx is also closely involved in one way or another with many of the other listings there, I see no reason it would be any easier to fake volume of S.MPOE than S.BBET.

I do not work with MP any more than being an investor in some of his companies (and I have a link to CoinBR in my sig in case other people want to invest too).

Yes, I am actually Peter Lambert. (But if I wasn't, that is what I would say too! If you really want, I could gpg sign something or sign with one of my bitcoin addresses proving I am who I say).

There seem to be a few early adopters who have invested in MPEx, early adopters are all sitting on mountains of bitcoins, as everybody knows.

Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 11:00:26 AM

But.. But... Millions of pounds traded each week? The largest stock on the exchange is the stock itself. There has been barely any new/good investments on it for years. The site itself looks like a high school project at best. I understand what your saying about time, but has anyone thought that there just simpily isn't enough money on the exchange to run away with? That they are trying to rebuild before doing a runner?

How many people here actually invest on that site? Seriously? Millions of pounds worth of people?

Sorry. I just don't believe it. Every red flag in my head is going absolutely bonkers

Think of it this way: If you had hundreds of bitcoins, would you invest with the anonymous guy with a flashy website that lets anybody in and changes terms constantly and suffers from periodic security breaches, or would you invest with somebody who gives out their identity, focuses on ironclad security from the beginning, and sets terms in signed contracts and sticks with those terms? The website is functional; when dealing in hundreds or thousands of bitcoins, security and function are much more important than how it looks.

And, to continue fixing grammar:

Quote from: Little P 1 on May 09, 2014, 11:16:19 AM

Dear Anotheranonlol,

I hope your well has some water in it.

MrWDunne

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I have no doubt that Mpex.co isn't a scam, but I would still not like to list there myself.

I think distributed exchanges are the way forward, with firms handling due diligence. Such a company is currently being worked on.

Little P 1

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Quote from: Anotheranonlol on May 09, 2014, 09:54:32 AM

Quote from: Little P 1 on May 09, 2014, 09:38:42 AM

Dear Anotheranonlol,

Where do you advise we list then ?

Where will investors be safe ?

Kr,

Malcolm O

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=569037.0;all

This is the latest in series of red flags associated with cryptostocks.

As far as safe from owners of exchange like the notorious cs you've currently listed on or god forbid.. Bitcoinbourse which I'm not sure I've heard of anyone ever contemplating trading shares on there, let alone actually taking the leap and risking it. You can choose a decentralised exchange which doesn't have an operator. Something like counterparty.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annxcp-counterparty-pioneering-peer-to-peer-finance-official-thread-395761

Frankly though, and somewhat unfortunately the market isn't really there for decentralised exchanges yet. you won't get a big audience solely listing there. users are more familiar with traditional exchanges like Havelock and seems to treat that like a stamp of approval. That's where you'd get the most volume and the highest chance of quickly raising whatever amount you were after. As far as I know they do at least perform some rudimentary due-diligence and require payment prior to listing any asset, so you calculate which one you'd be more likely to go with. Most scammers stick with CrypoStocks because it's tried and tested.

Dear Anotheranonlol,

I hope your well.

I really appreciate your feedback.

I don't think ill register on Havelock I don't want to encourage people to get involved with them. Many of our share holders will be new to bitcoin and will simple require a register to prove their ownership.

I will be sure to let them know that its not safe to hold their crypto currency on any exchange for extended periods of time.

We certainly do not leave any funds raised on the exchange.

Kind Regards,

Malcolm O

mikemikemike

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Quote from: fluffypony on May 09, 2014, 10:50:35 AM

mikemikemike - when evaluating something it's important to evaluate it in the context of time. Even the most dedicated of scammers pulling off a long-con is smart enough to only waste 6-12 months before ducking. So ask yourself: if it were a scam why not just do a runner ages ago? I mean, it's been in operation for years, there's been plenty of opportunity to pull out ahead of the game and setup a brand new scam all over again.

But.. But... Millions of pounds traded each week? The largest stock on the exchange is the stock itself. There has been barely any new/good investments on it for years. The site itself looks like a high school project at best. I understand what your saying about time, but has anyone thought that there just simpily isn't enough money on the exchange to run away with? That they are trying to rebuild before doing a runner?

How many people here actually invest on that site? Seriously? Millions of pounds worth of people?

Sorry. I just don't believe it. Every red flag in my head is going absolutely bonkers

fluffypony

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mikemikemike - when evaluating something it's important to evaluate it in the context of time. Even the most dedicated of scammers pulling off a long-con is smart enough to only waste 6-12 months before ducking. So ask yourself: if it were a scam why not just do a runner ages ago? I mean, it's been in operation for years, there's been plenty of opportunity to pull out ahead of the game and setup a brand new scam all over again.

davout

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Quote from: Little P 1 on May 09, 2014, 10:38:58 AM

Still undecided. Looks complex.

That's actually a sane attitude, don't touch something you don't understand, work towards better understanding and decide when you understand enough to do so on logical grounds.
The insane attitude is deciding by following the herd of derps.

mikemikemike it's very dangerous to fake volume or to inflate prices, you run the risk of being beaten to a pulp by the market.
If you decide to inflate the price of your stock and I own some what is to prevent me to sell it to you while you inflate?
In other words, it doesn't make economical sense to fuck with the market if you're here to stay.

mikemikemike

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Quote from: Peter Lambert on May 09, 2014, 10:37:16 AM

Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 10:30:44 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on May 09, 2014, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: mikemikemike on May 09, 2014, 10:19:27 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on May 09, 2014, 10:03:19 AM

How does this conversation happen without anybody mentioning the oldest and only serious bitcoin stock exchange, MPEx? If you want to be taken seriously, get listed there.

~~Your~~ You're being sarcastic , right?

No, I am being serious.

Thanks for the lesson in grammar. The Internet is a much better place with people like you correcting everyone's English.

But seriously, is this like double sarcasm? I can't believe that you are serious

You honestly think the exchange where the only really active stock is the exchange itself is the most serious exchange? You've gotta be kidding.

And hold on, you think that volume is legitimate? You think people are actually investing in that site and the volume isn't faked?

Dude... Seriously?!!

You're welcome, I am glad to help you learn to write better.

No, it is not sarcasm (and that is not triple sarcasm either). If I was not being serious I would admit that.

If they were faking volume, why would they only be doing it on one listing instead of all the stocks?

Because its their stock? It's allot easier to get away with?

Do you work with or are you friends with MP?

Are you actually Peter lambert or did you buy this account??

Sorry for all the questions but I can't for the life of me understand why you are recommending this exchange. You honestly think millions of dollars each week are traded in MPEx each week? Solely on the stock of the exchange itself?

Little P 1

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I am a bit uneasy about Havelock because they knew about the problems with NEO far in advanced and did nothing to warn share holders.

I spoke to them warning them about the issues in regards to money laundering, poor governance and the fact that investors did not actually own shares just royalties.

You can hear my note on NEO here

I did actually take a look at http://mpex.co/

Still undecided. Looks complex.

Topic: BitcoinBourse: the biggest scam in Bitcoin securities today - page 3. (Read 9963 times)