Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users - page 16.

repentance

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Quote from: nrd525 on February 14, 2013, 11:19:46 PM

File a support request:
https://support.mtgox.com/home

Their response will undoubtedly be that they're just following the advice of their lawyers, yada, yada, yada and that of course they really care about whether or not the average Bitcoinica user gets their funds back but they can't leave themselves open to liability.

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Who's this? The owner of Mt. Gox? This thing has taken so long and been so drawn out I can't even remember who stole what anymore. Do you know the E-Mail of the owner of Gox?

Mark Karpeles is the CEO of MtGox. He's also on the board of Bitcoin Foundation. He's usually best contacted on IRC, where his username is MagicalTux.

dancingnancy

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Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 09:27:25 PM

Quote from: dancingnancy on February 14, 2013, 09:10:25 PM

That's pretty much been everyone's story this whole time. Starting to get slightly old with BTC @ $27 each.

I would hope that the business run by a board member of Bitcoin Foundation would co-operate with the liquidator and be seen to do so.

Who's this? The owner of Mt. Gox? This thing has taken so long and been so drawn out I can't even remember who stole what anymore. Do you know the E-Mail of the owner of Gox?

nrd525

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File a support request:
https://support.mtgox.com/home

repentance

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Quote from: Herodes on February 14, 2013, 10:23:39 PM

Thanks for the insight repentance. It's funny, criminals are never bound by any rules, but those trying to set things straight are.

Unfortunately, if MtGox chooses not to recognise the liquidator's authority, the liquidator may have a hard time justifying an international lawsuit - from memory, the only funds recovered so far are those which were in Bitcoinica's bank account which wouldn't go very far at all.

As an aside, the California court made an interesting ruling on 25 January regarding its jurisdiction over Intersango.

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LAW AND MOTION 302, RULING: THE COURT ADOPTED ITS TENTATIVE RULING WHICH WAS NOT CONTESTED. SPECIALLY APPEARING DEFENDANT INTERSANGO LTD.'S MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE OF PROCESS FOR LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION IS GRANTED. PLAINTIFF FAILED TO PRODUCE FACTS SHOWING DEFENDANT INTERSANGO, LTD HAS ANY CALIFORNIA CONTACTS RELEVANT TO THIS CASE. ORDER SIGNED IN OPEN COURT. JUDGE: MARLA J. MILLER; CLERK: GINA GONZALES; COURT REPORTER: ANTHONY C. VAUGHN, CSR # 6185

Monster Tent

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Quote from: repentance on February 13, 2013, 05:37:26 PM

If I was a cynic, I'd suspect that MtGox is trying to avoid handing Bitcoinica funds over to the liquidator while the Cartmell et al lawsuit is in progress so that whatever Bitcoinica funds they hold will be available to satisfy any judgement awarded by the California court.

Withdrawing that many funds from Mt Gox at once might be impossible if they themselves are running fractional reserve.

Herodes

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Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 10:21:50 PM

Quote from: Herodes on February 14, 2013, 09:58:08 PM

Basically what he's saying is: "Hi, I wake up every morning, have my breakfast, go to work, come home, have my dinner and go to bed." Then by the end of the month he collects his paycheck, which he gets no matter whether he claws any funds back to the Bitcoinica users or not.

Lawyers never care about anything but themselves. It's a sad world.

Actually, fees for NZ liquidators have to be approved by the court in advance. It's one reason why they don't formally process claims until they have funds in hand ready to disburse. They're bound by all sorts of rules regarding taking actions unlikely to result in a benefit to creditors - such as pursuing claw-back when there is little hope of recovery - and can be personally sued if they fuck up to the detriment of creditors.

What you often see NZ liquidators do where pursuing claw-back would likely be unsuccessful is subordinate claims - either in part or in full.

Unfortunately, when liquidators have no access to the financial records of an entity it's a very slow process.

Thanks for the insight repentance. It's funny, criminals are never bound by any rules, but those trying to set things straight are.

repentance

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Quote from: Herodes on February 14, 2013, 09:58:08 PM

Basically what he's saying is: "Hi, I wake up every morning, have my breakfast, go to work, come home, have my dinner and go to bed." Then by the end of the month he collects his paycheck, which he gets no matter whether he claws any funds back to the Bitcoinica users or not.

Lawyers never care about anything but themselves. It's a sad world.

Actually, fees for NZ liquidators have to be approved by the court in advance. It's one reason why they don't formally process claims until they have funds in hand ready to disburse. They're bound by all sorts of rules regarding taking actions unlikely to result in a benefit to creditors - such as pursuing claw-back when there is little hope of recovery - and can be personally sued if they fuck up to the detriment of creditors.

What you often see NZ liquidators do where pursuing claw-back would likely be unsuccessful is subordinate claims - either in part or in full.

Unfortunately, when liquidators have no access to the financial records and assets of an entity it's a very slow process.

Herodes

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Quote from: pof on February 13, 2013, 05:05:31 AM

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We apologise for the slow progress in the liquidation, but hopefully the investors will appreciate that we are making every effort to recover the bitcoins and funds in order to make a distribution to creditors as soon as possible.

Kind Regards
Taslim Bhamji
Senior Insolvency Administrator

Basically what he's saying is: "Hi, I wake up every morning, have my breakfast, go to work, come home, have my dinner and go to bed." Then by the end of the month he collects his paycheck, which he gets no matter whether he claws any funds back to the Bitcoinica users or not.

Lawyers never care about anything but themselves. It's a sad world.

repentance

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Quote from: dancingnancy on February 14, 2013, 09:10:25 PM

That's pretty much been everyone's story this whole time. Starting to get slightly old with BTC @ $27 each.

Even more galling when you remember that the way that funds were returned following the MtGox intrusion meant that more was returned in USD than in BTC.

Although we know from Patrick Murck's posts how much was recovered following that intrusion, not even the liquidator knows how much is in Bitcoinica's MtGox accounts.

It's ironic that MtGox was fine about handing over information to AurumXchange following the intrusion but won't hand over information to a court-appointed liquidator. It's clearly not in the interests of Bitcoinica users that they with-hold that information.

I would hope that the business run by a board member of Bitcoin Foundation would co-operate with the liquidator and be seen to do so.

dancingnancy

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Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 09:01:37 PM

Quote from: dancingnancy on February 14, 2013, 08:23:30 PM

Interested to hear the response.

It will be plausible deniability all the way down. Everyone's lawyers are going to protect their own client's interest here.

That's pretty much been everyone's story this whole time. Starting to get slightly old with BTC @ $27 each.

repentance

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Quote from: dancingnancy on February 14, 2013, 08:23:30 PM

Interested to hear the response.

It will be plausible deniability all the way down. Everyone's lawyers are going to protect their own client's interest here.

dancingnancy

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Interested to hear the response.

disclaimer201

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Good idea, actually. Which address?

Also, I think the issue might deserve its own thread along the lines of "MtGox holding coins hostage from liquidators and bitcoinica customers".

nrd525

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Everyone should email MtGox to ask for their prompt cooperation.

repentance

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If I was a cynic, I'd suspect that MtGox is trying to avoid handing Bitcoinica funds over to the liquidator while the Cartmell et al lawsuit is in progress so that whatever Bitcoinica funds they hold will be available to satisfy any judgement awarded by the California court.

disclaimer201

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Probably a combination of Gox and non-cooperation from the "gang". Whenever Gox claims they have to freeze accounts because
of AML or any other possible governmental/authorities concerns they were never asked the f to care about in the future you can rest assured it has nothing to do with actual authority concerns. The liquidators are appointed by a New Zealando court, so I guess unless those authorities aren't the CIA Gox won't give a shit.

After all that has gone down, I really don't see how this exchange is still number one when there are clearly more reliable alternatives out there.

dancingnancy

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Why can't Mt. Gox do this? Just sitting on everyone's coins for now it seems.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: pof on February 13, 2013, 05:05:31 AM

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To All Investors

We have received a number of requests for updates on the liquidation of Bitcoinica LP (In Liquidation).
As noted in my email of 20th December 2012, we have requested details of the account records held by Mt Gox. To date, Mt Gox has refused to release these details on account of confidentiality and has requested that the Liquidators provide various details of the accounts before it releases this information. As reported in the Liquidators first report, we do not have any company records whatsoever and are reliant upon the assistance of the limited partners and Mt Gox to take control of the bitcoins and cash assets. We cannot make any progress in the liquidation unless Mt Gox provides us with access to Bitcoinica’s accounts. We are currently awaiting information from the limited partners so that we can progress the account access issues with Mt Gox.
We apologise for the slow progress in the liquidation, but hopefully the investors will appreciate that we are making every effort to recover the bitcoins and funds in order to make a distribution to creditors as soon as possible. We will continue to provide updates periodically to keep all investors abreast of the liquidation progress.

Kind Regards
Taslim Bhamji
Senior Insolvency Administrator

So it's dead.

pof

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Quote

To All Investors

We have received a number of requests for updates on the liquidation of Bitcoinica LP (In Liquidation).
As noted in my email of 20th December 2012, we have requested details of the account records held by Mt Gox. To date, Mt Gox has refused to release these details on account of confidentiality and has requested that the Liquidators provide various details of the accounts before it releases this information. As reported in the Liquidators first report, we do not have any company records whatsoever and are reliant upon the assistance of the limited partners and Mt Gox to take control of the bitcoins and cash assets. We cannot make any progress in the liquidation unless Mt Gox provides us with access to Bitcoinica’s accounts. We are currently awaiting information from the limited partners so that we can progress the account access issues with Mt Gox.
We apologise for the slow progress in the liquidation, but hopefully the investors will appreciate that we are making every effort to recover the bitcoins and funds in order to make a distribution to creditors as soon as possible. We will continue to provide updates periodically to keep all investors abreast of the liquidation progress.

Kind Regards
Taslim Bhamji
Senior Insolvency Administrator

pof

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Hi -----,
There is no further news to report on at this stage. We are still corresponding with Mt Gox in relation to the accounts held and until this information is made available to the liquidators, we are not able to progress the liquidation.

We will provide an update to all investors when there is new information to report.

Kind Regards
Taslim Bhamji
Senior Insolvency Administrator

Topic: Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users - page 16. (Read 64463 times)