Topic: Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users - page 19. (Read 64463 times)

Thanks again, Intersango and Zhou. Well done. At least the reputations of both parties are permanently destroyed. Intersango is pretty much dead in the water and everyone will listen to the "zhoutonged" christmas carrol this holiday season.

Well - by the time they manage to distribute any reminding funds, I guess 40%+ will go to lawyers fees. Man, how difficult can this be ?

The leverage does not matter here. You don't have to tell the leverage ratio.
and bitcoin do own you 1500 BTC (provided your claim)
You can write it in this way:

Cash Owed : 0
BTC Owed : 1500 BTC
Detail of position : long 3000 BTC @ 4.70$

Total claim :  
0 USD$ ,
1500 BTC
profit of long 3000 BTC @ 4.70$

P.S. According to the reply from liquidator, whether the position  will be included is still not decided, and I think OK what ever the decision is, as long as the users are fairly treated.

How do we write open position on the form ?

lets say I had a 2:1 account I had spent 1500 BTC to purchase 3000 BTC at 4.70$

Would my claim be as follow ?

Cash Owed : 0
BTC Owed : 0
Detail of position : 3000 BTC @ 4.70$  2:1
Total claim :  0 USD$ , 1691 BTC Closed at 5$ or at todays price

Then it is understood that Mr.Taslim Bhanji is aware.

Although the amount indicated in the report ($ 500,000), seems little.

The recovery of funds was reported here by the lawyer who facilitated it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1098303

At the end what happened to the second theft ("Chen Jianhai")?, was supposed culprit was identified and was going to return the money. The report referred to the second robbery, but no the recovery of funds.

I have some questions, what supporting documents do we have... Do they need some ID Card scanned, or it's about sent Bitcoins. I've used satoshi client to send coins to Bitcoinica?!

And I have to complete the form, sing, scan and send?!

You can download your history from MtGox. Useful for verifying deposits/withdrawals.

I'm not sure if they added this because of my support ticket, or always had it.

Account History - CSV icon - one is three months and one is greater than 3 months.

Wait until the next report when the amounts are added.  It will be linked within 30 seconds of the first person receiving it. 

Anyone got a pastebin of that list yet ? 

A creditors’ meeting is not called for every liquidation.

- Generally creditors’ meetings will only be held where they are likely to be of benefit to the administration.

- They may also be held in particularly large liquidations involving complex issues where the liquidator considers that it would be appropriate for creditors to assist in making decisions.

- Creditors’ meetings are not an opportunity for creditors to badger the company director or to attempt to extract some retribution for financial losses suffered.

- Where a liquidator decides not to call a creditors' meeting, the liquidator must give notice of that decision (in writing to the creditors and by placing a public notice)

- If a creditor would like a meeting to be held, they can make a request in writing to the liquidator setting out why they consider that holding a creditors’ meeting would benefit the administration of the liquidation.

- Public notices of meetings must be arranged by the liquidator.

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/learn-about/closing-a-company/business-in-difficulty/liquidation/what-happens-during-a-liquidation

Obviously the major question is whether creditors travelling to New Zealand to attend a creditors' meeting would benefit the administration of the estate in any way.

Creditors need to keep in mind that liquidators are paid by the hour and they have a duty to keep liquidation costs to a minimum and not take actions which are unlikely to result in a benefit to creditors.

Many of your questions can only be answered by the liquidators themselves and some they won't have answers for right now (this is absolutely normal so don't panic about that - the numbers in the Statement of Affairs in the first report are usually guesses - and they've already indicated that there are some matters on which they're waiting for legal advice).  

Just stay mindful of the fact that they are not working free of charge and that fees for the time they spend on this liquidation and any legal actions they take on behalf of creditors will come out of the estate.  

Just read the first liquidation report. Looks decent.

A couple of things come to mind:

• Is the term creditor and investor interchangeable or do they have different legal implications? Or are all the investors also unsecured creditors?
• The creditors (us) have 9 days to decide if we want to call a creditor meeting. Given the complexity of the case I think this might be a good idea. However the liquidator mentions that the associated costs is one of the reasons to forego this meeting. What would the costs be roughly?
• The 500K MtGox number seems very vague and rough. Considering bitcoins have appreciated a lot (5USD > 12USD) since. This number seems very low.
• Do the MtGox funds include the funds Patrick Murck was able to recover from Zhou from the MtGox theft?
  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1098303
• Also what is the status regarding the 40.000USD held by AurumXchange that Zhou said would be part of the recovery funds once AML would clear?
  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1062656
  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1064858

Finally it is unclear if Tihan covered the linode and rackspace hacks. On 2012/04/24 Donald wrote the following:


Other things that come to mind:

• Does the liquidator have records of all partial claim payouts made earlier & Is there a chance there will be clawbacks? Bitcoinica used 5USD as the number to settle claims and close positions. The liquidator is using almost 12USD.
• I understand that the creditors can call a meeting to set up a liquidation committee. How does this work?
• Can we get a list of all expenses made by Bitcoinica since they shut down the site in May? Are they significant & justified?
• Will there be intermittent updates from the liquidator or do we have to expect radio silence for another 6 months until the next official report comes out?

I think that here we have to add your balance in dollars and your position in profits regard 11.76938.

Short positions ... I do not know what they do with them.

I'd seek clarification from the liquidator about filling in the open orders section and how to include it in your total claim.  Perhaps when you contact him you could suggest that he make a post about it or send out an email about it as I suspect many people are going to have the same question.

Ok, our bitcoins understand that freezing in 11.76938, but not the bitcoins of bitcoinica, so if from here to when selling their bitcoins to pay the price is $ 20, they really will have more money than those given in the report and a good margin regarding our claim in BTC, since it seems that everything is going to pay in dollars.

Unless the price freeze only references open positions and btc will be paid in bt

What about Open Orders, and Total Claim !?

That's just an estimate of the value of the Bitcoins on MtGox and the value of the Bitcoin claims at this point in time.  The early estimates of the value of assets are often incorrect.  The way I'm reading it, right now they want you to list any USD you're owed and any BTC you're owed separately (and not to convert one to the other).  They're not asking you for the dollar value of the BTC you're owed.  If you're only owed Bitcoin, then list only Bitcoin.  If you're only owed USD, then list only USD.  If you're owed both, then list the amounts of each you're owed.

OK

I've received the email too, The only thing clear to me now is that I have to send the claim before 20 January 2013. And they are using 11.76938USD for BTC price.

How do you understand the 5c and 5d where you have to put Open orders and Total Claim.. how to calculate Total Claim!?

It says you can email, fax or post it.  If you're going to email it, print the form and sign it and then send them a scanned copy.