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Topic: Bitcoins existence has increased the spread of child pornography - page 2. (Read 2591 times)

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 336
What are the people that find gold doing in this regard?

Why are you expecting that Bitcoin should have more responsibility than *any* fiat currency that exists?

Basically you should be calling for the end of the internet as those nasty images you are complaining about are sent using it!
(oh - not going to blame the internet?)


MayorMccheese is the one expecting these responsibilities, claiming that fiat has already enforced laws and refusing to reference what those laws are. I am just simply asking what, if anything, can be done to combat the pain-point of the thread.
copper member
Activity: 1442
Merit: 529
The government uses as a pretext bitcoin to associate it with all of the shi t that happens in dark net or deep web (call it like you like). The government try to make bitcoin look bad as they don't want the people to have full control of their money, they just want to have persons under control by using banks which can tell you that you cannot spend for example 1 mln USD overnight without a very good explanation. With Bitcoin you can do that and no one will ask a thing to you.

All of the sh it of dark net used to exist in clear net before then when TOR appeared around end of 2001 to 2003 all the online criminals moved to this platform. Government should try to stop criminals and not blame bitcoin if they choose to use it as a currency. Its not bitcoin fault, its the criminals fault.
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 1014
It is sickening that this type of stuff happens, but bitcoin can not be blamed for this. There are enough other methods to get money switching hands, even more private ones like fiat cash.
Exactly, blamind bitcoin here is insane, its not even anonymous way of payment. Its very not anonymous Cheesy opposite to FIAT which is almost 100% anonymous.
Bitcoin was blamed for drugs first now child porn :/
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
What are the people that find gold doing in this regard?

Why are you expecting that Bitcoin should have more responsibility than *any* fiat currency that exists?

Basically you should be calling for the end of the internet as those nasty images you are complaining about are sent using it!
(oh - not going to blame the internet?)
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 336
What do you think should be done to make bitcoin less appealing or unusable for illegal activity such as child-porn?

You brought up a valid point about the non-profit reporting incidents they sniff out, and I'm just looking for elaboration & collaboration on how we take it far enough to police ourselves, so it is not imposed upon us. It's unfortunate they cannot enforce the laws of local jurisdictions, but only report it to undoubtedly over-worked law-enforcement.

How can we act upon their intelligence better as a community / currency ?
What can we do to police ourselves?

I'd hate to hear arguments against everything, and answers to nothing.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Complete nonsense posted above.

There are simply "no universally agreed upon laws" so you can't try and apply such a non-existent concept to Bitcoin.
(are you a government lacky of some sort?)

Again - where are these universal laws about gold?
(surely they would form the basis of what you are wanting to see)
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.
Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing Roll Eyes

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

AML/KYC laws, for starters. But Bitcoin is more than a currency, it is also a payment processor. So this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-security-financing-idUSKCN0ZL1RH is another step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why you've fixating on this, I merely pointed out that Bitcoin is not exempt from currency laws by virtue of being decentralized.
Which part of that don't you agree with?

I agree it isn't exempt by virtue of being decentralized. Although I also notice that the most reputable bitcoin exchanges, at least half a dozen follow AML / KYC compliance. These laws can't be pushed into the bitcoin protocol feasibly, so it makes sense that these exchanges are compliant. Any exchange that is not compliant is subject to the AML / KYC laws within their jurisdiction. So where's the problem?
Of course "These laws can't be pushed into the bitcoin protocol feasibly," that's the gist of Bitcoin's appeal.
And while there are exchanges that comply with AML / KYC laws within their jurisdictions, that's a small comfort -- Bitcoin is borderless, so compliance with Somali laws doesn't help me much in US.

Quote
Do you believe that it needs to be centralized in order for it to be properly regulated, that bitcoin mining need be AML / KYC Complicit, or that countries be more strict with their approach towards bitcoin and it's components?
Neither. Centralized Bitcoin is grossly insecure, and, as such, a pointless exercise in waste and goldbergian complexity.
And I don't think that countries *should* tighten Bitcoin regulations, but if we fail to police ourselves, there *will be* stricter regulations.
Do you not see the difference between "should" and "will"?

Quote
What exactly is your gripe about the state of bitcoin in relation to KYC / AML laws?
The reuter's link you sent was decent, but it seems like it doesn't actually address the issue, it simply minimizes it or makes it slightly more inconvenient to perform. While I agree this is a step in the right direction, those regulations were for only EU companies unless I'm mistaken.. So unless we can enforce the same rules globally, there will always be a country that is a Laundering-Haven.
Again, you are asking me to defend a statement that I have never made.
Again:
Quote
ELY5:
1. I didn't suggest that child porn would vanish if Bitcoin complied with laws applicable to other currencies.
2. I said that Bitcoin is not exempt from those laws by virtue of being decentralized.
I have no "gripe about the state of bitcoin in relation to KYC / AML laws." I said that decentralization does not make it exempt from those laws, thus is "neither here nor there." Centralization is irrelevant to this discussion. It's a non-issue, and should have never been brought up by you.

How else can I explain this? What remains unclear? Please point to a single specific thing I could clarify, phrase it as a single question, and I will try to answer it so that we could move on.
Now then:
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Seriously - if you think all transactions in the world should be traceable then you surely think that the major focus should be upon uncut diamonds and precious metals (they are of far more significance than Bitcoin is).

So once you have succeeded in preventing all other money laundering then maybe we look at Bitcoin (as there is no evidence to suggest that Bitcoin is used much for that at all).

It is pretty clear that the idiots making these posts are working for authorities (who don't mind staying corrupt but just don't want to risk losing power).
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 336
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.
Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing Roll Eyes

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

AML/KYC laws, for starters. But Bitcoin is more than a currency, it is also a payment processor. So this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-security-financing-idUSKCN0ZL1RH is another step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why you've fixating on this, I merely pointed out that Bitcoin is not exempt from currency laws by virtue of being decentralized.
Which part of that don't you agree with?

I agree it isn't exempt by virtue of being decentralized. Although I also notice that the most reputable bitcoin exchanges, at least half a dozen follow AML / KYC compliance. These laws can't be pushed into the bitcoin protocol feasibly, so it makes sense that these exchanges are compliant. Any exchange that is not compliant is subject to the AML / KYC laws within their jurisdiction. So where's the problem?

Do you believe that it needs to be centralized in order for it to be properly regulated, that bitcoin mining need be AML / KYC Complicit, or that countries be more strict with their approach towards bitcoin and it's components?

What exactly is your gripe about the state of bitcoin in relation to KYC / AML laws?
The reuter's link you sent was decent, but it seems like it doesn't actually address the issue, it simply minimizes it or makes it slightly more inconvenient to perform. While I agree this is a step in the right direction, those regulations were for only EU companies unless I'm mistaken.. So unless we can enforce the same rules globally, there will always be a country that is a Laundering-Haven.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
should terrorists and child pornography are spreading only because of bitcoin.i don't think so they where present before it and now atleast we know which system and how they are dealing so it gives a chance to stop them
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.
Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing Roll Eyes

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

AML/KYC laws, for starters. But Bitcoin is more than a currency, it is also a payment processor. So this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-security-financing-idUSKCN0ZL1RH is another step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why you've fixating on this, I merely pointed out that Bitcoin is not exempt from currency laws by virtue of being decentralized.
Which part of that don't you agree with?

You enjoy taking statements out of context (like me calling out Rodeo for being inconsistent), and asking me to defend them.

ELY5:
1. I didn't suggest that child porn would vanish if Bitcoin complied with laws applicable to other currencies.
2. I said that Bitcoin is not exempt from those laws by virtue of being decentralized.

Do you see the difference, or should I clarify further?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
During his nine years of offending, he forced victims to pose with horrific slogans advertising his foul images, which he sold for Bitcoins on a notorious paedophile website on the dark web - the encrypted version of the internet.

And where are all the links to people that have sold child porn for USD (or you seemingly have *none* of those at all)?

If you want to be taken seriously then why not try and be honest for a start (you are not)?

Yes you are trying to be clever because you are trying to insinuate that no child porn has been sold for USD (and I don't think that anyone on this forum is going to believe that).
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 336
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.
Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing Roll Eyes

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

I'm not trying to be clever, I can not think of any and I'd like to know if there are any.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
This is a seriously flawed topic.

Bitcoin's economy is not even a sizeable fraction of the USD or any other major currency so to try and imply that it has somehow had some major affect upon something like "child porn" (with zero evidence) is just crap.


1. Child porn has lower market cap than bitcoin.
2. plenty of evidence.
During his nine years of offending, he forced victims to pose with horrific slogans advertising his foul images, which he sold for Bitcoins on a notorious paedophile website on the dark web - the encrypted version of the internet.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620004/Britain-s-worst-paedophile-Richard-Huckle-admits-scores-attack-children.html#ixzz4Dq9N5AKA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+pedophile&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
This is a seriously flawed topic.

Bitcoin's economy is not even a sizeable fraction of the USD or any other major currency so to try and imply that it has somehow had some major affect upon something like "child porn" (with zero evidence) is just crap.

If the OP has actual "proof" that Bitcoin is used more than USD or other major currencies then please provide it.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.
Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 336
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

You are making zero sense.

If you want to control everything then you should control the USD and all other cash - is that your goal?

(and if that is not your goal then why on earth are you picking on Bitcoin that is a fraction of the USD being used for "child porn" and any other illegal thing you can think of)


I'm probably "making zero sense" because that quote was for MayorMccheese telling us to leave the Non-profit monitoring organization to their own devices without imposition of ethics. I've agreed with everything you have said so far, so...  Huh
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

You are making zero sense.

If you want to control everything then you should control the USD and all other cash - is that your goal?

(and if that is not your goal then why on earth are you picking on Bitcoin that is a fraction of the USD being used for "child porn" and any other illegal thing you can think of)
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 336
Oh - "the humanity" and "what about the children". Cheesy

Guys - do you know that gold can be used as a medium of payment for "child porn".

I suggest you try and get gold banned immediately worldwide!


Don't be cruel .  Roll Eyes
My point is that human beings should be able to live without feeling like they're a monetize-able object from birth (girls), and no one should fear a be-heading for seeking wisdom/knowledge.

To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Ethan I am playing devil's advocate here. I would burn a pedophile in a fire as quick as anyone. But it is a tricky thing when you get into the details. For example I would be appalled at a website that connects grown men with 13 year old girls. But what if that practice was the norm in some country? Should my ideas about how people should live be imposed on the rest of the world? Why, cause I'm a rich white American? And should women here be arrested for not covering their hair because it is a law somewhere else? What if in their country it is far worse a crime than child porn?
Our own (U.S.) history is also filled with immoral laws. When I was born you could be jailed for marrying a black person. Therefore this argument would have supported tracking bitcoins so that no one buys a marriage licenses outside of their race.  Addressing the worst things on the darknet is going to be difficult if we are to preserve our rights.  

You, as "a rich white American," should keep your ideas of right and wrong to yourself, and stop sticking your nose into other people's business. If beheading non-believers is what they do, that's non of your rich white American business.

You should also let the London-based bitcoin startup Elliptic and the International Watch Foundation (IWF), a non-profit in the UK that monitors online child abuse, do what they do, and keep your ethics to yourself.
Is that what you want to hear?

Anyone culturally /ethically / religiously different should have no part in the rest of humanity's affairs? We should let non-profit organizations "do what they do, and keep our ethics to ourselves", is there no accountability on their behalf or limit to their reach of discretion?
ELY5: If he feels that it is not his rich white American place to dictate what constitutes child rape, it is also not his rich white American place to tell others which laws are *UN*just, e.g. beheading non-believers.
Because intrinsic consistency.

Quote
I'm a very poor white american, 90% of the people I have ever known don't even make Poverty wages. I come from a ghetto in New York where multiple people are shot and killed every single month over drugs and pocket-change. I personally know multiple woman who were raped and abused by the hands of family members or friends. I know too well what it's like to lose someone to violence, or to lose someone psychologically to abuse. It's insulting as hell to make assumptions about "white americans".

As a white-american who knows women who are ruined emotionally/psychologically from rape and abuse as a little girl, I definitely see child-pornography and how it's monitored/prosecuted as my damn business.

Humanity , Civility is ALL our business, especially when it comes to how we treat the children of the world.

And that's fine. As long as you understand that you're imposing your cultural bias and arbitrary mores on others, which Rodeo finds so abhorrent.
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