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Topic: Bitcoin's privacy battle and an ominous warning to the community (Read 455 times)

legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

I asked ChatGPT a similar question about legal uses for mixers, answer is below. Grin 

I could see myself falling into the various examples based on scenarios I could be in, from a business or personal perspective... but, of course, there are also bad things they can be used for, and many things in life could be described in a similar fashion.

Maybe another hornet's nest was kicked when I started reading more reports about various terrorists groups having a percentage of funds in crypto to help their various agendas, wars, and genocides. Not something I've enjoyed reading, especially knowing it is likely a very small % involved in Bitcoin's ecosystem. Of course, I also don't enjoy reading about how my government seemingly ends up helping to fund the same groups through various deals and aid/peace campaigns either... which never seem to work out. Undecided



ChatGPT:
Quote
A crypto coin mixer, also known as a cryptocurrency mixer or tumbler, is a service that mixes and anonymizes transactions, making it more challenging to trace the origin of funds. While the primary purpose of coin mixers is often associated with privacy and anonymity, there are legal and legitimate use cases for these services. Here are some examples:

Privacy Protection:
Individuals may use coin mixers to enhance the privacy of their financial transactions. This is particularly relevant in a world where financial transactions are increasingly digital and can be traced.

Security Measures:
Users might employ coin mixers to add an extra layer of security to their cryptocurrency transactions. By making it more difficult to trace transactions, individuals can reduce the risk of targeted attacks or theft.

Business Transactions:
Businesses may use coin mixers to protect sensitive financial information. This can be especially relevant for companies engaged in international transactions or those dealing with competitors.

Avoiding Profiling:
Some users may want to avoid being profiled based on their spending habits. Coin mixers can help break the link between a user's identity and their transaction history.

Preventing Doxxing:
Individuals who are concerned about doxxing (having their private information publicly disclosed) might use coin mixers to make it more difficult for malicious actors to link their cryptocurrency transactions to their real-world identity.
It's essential to note that while these are legal use cases, the regulatory landscape surrounding cryptocurrency is continually evolving, and the legality of certain activities may vary by jurisdiction. Users should be aware of and comply with the legal requirements in their respective regions to ensure they are using coin mixers within the bounds of the law. Additionally, some jurisdictions may impose restrictions or regulations on the use of coin mixers, so users should stay informed about the legal environment in their area.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?
It's a tool, same like any other tool.
I don't think you (or anyone else) are going around asking other people what can a knife be used for other than for putting peanut butter on piece of bread.
But hey, nothing can surprise me after observing strange behavior from bunch of people in last few years.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1037
Their business, their rules.  This is a sign that you should move to a privacy friendly web hosting provider. 

This is also a sign that the crypto world has split in to two groups.  The ones which strive to comply with every single bullshit the government tells them to do (a few examples[1][2]), and the crypto-ghetto which trades decentralized, mixes their coins, does not give KYC, etc..  Every day passing by and the indifferences between these two groups keep getting worse.  It will not impress me if in 10 years from now, the legitimate bitcoin users will be treated as real criminals.   

This was very well said. I think we are splitting into 3 groups. The first, being the over-regulators. The second, being the "new" crypto economy, web3, where seemingly all applications and developments are very enthused within all ecosystems, mostly because of how transparent the EVM is and how regulated the space already is. The third being those who care about their privacy, and sovereignty. The original users, as you eloquently described - the crypto-ghetto.

To address this:

It will not impress me if in 10 years from now, the legitimate bitcoin users will be treated as real criminals.   

I think 10 years would be ideal, maybe optimistic, it gives the correct side of the fence a chance to develop new solutions. My idea is a lot more pessimistic. I think that it could be a matter of a few to five years where privacy is completely ruled out as a suspicious activity. Especially given that most populations have seemingly written off (or submitted) this right and the fact that it should exist, though doesn't.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 298
Their business, their rules.  This is a sign that you should move to a privacy friendly web hosting provider. 

This is also a sign that the crypto world has split in to two groups.  The ones which strive to comply with every single bullshit the government tells them to do (a few examples[1][2]), and the crypto-ghetto which trades decentralized, mixes their coins, does not give KYC, etc..  Every day passing by and the indifferences between these two groups keep getting worse.  It will not impress me if in 10 years from now, the legitimate bitcoin users will be treated as real criminals.   

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

A mixer mixes, pretty obvious.  Your question is rather:  How can obfuscating the source of your coins be used other than to accomplish x?

[1]:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ofac-sanctioned-transactions-being-censored-5475157
[2]:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-patriot-act-comes-to-cryptocurrency-5471353
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1037
whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts

Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas.

Digaran never ceases to amaze me. I think we already have another BenCodie case around here. So he's against mixers and has been getting paid for spamming the forum while advertising Mixero mixer in his signature? For months, I seem to remember.

We can get Little Mouse to come here and comment about my signature and my beliefs in gambling. How about you ask him personally, if my disposition of the gambling industry is in line with the posts I make in that board. I am sure he will be on my side of the fence, because we all know my posts there are probably more constructive than majority of the spammers there, even whilst being in line with my values that are inverse with what makes that industry profit (exploitation of greed, lack of empathy, shady scam tactics, rigged odds, kyc privacy intrusions/fund captivity, etc - all things that exist, dont apply to all in that board, all that my participation in a sig campaign won't change) - but I'm not rehashing that conversation. There's already pages on pages in a thread somewhere else about it.

As for the rest of your post, don't compare me to digaran. No case is the same, and I am not a troll. We are not the same. It's cute how obsessed you are with directing things toward me though lol. This is what, the 3rd time you've attempted to discredit me this week?

You know, I could easily post "oh, another poker player case" in every childish thread. This is only one example of your childishness and there are many more examples of your flaws as a community member out there, I can post "another poker player case" every time something linking to your relation if you like. It won't be hard, maybe even leisurely since it'll be backed by your own posts...but, it'll be childish. I haven't stooped to this level yet as i am not child, but boy, you are making it really hard for me not to start.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

Based on my research, when they are used properly, they can prevent people from knowing how much money you have or what you're buying, so that they can't take advantage of you.

PS: There was probably some downtime on the new site, but that was caused by a misconfiguration and not by any hosting issues. But I fixed it a few minutes ago.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts

Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas.

Digaran never ceases to amaze me. I think we already have another BenCodie case around here. So he's against mixers and has been getting paid for spamming the forum while advertising Mixero mixer in his signature? For months, I seem to remember.

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

I don't know if there is another utility, but even if there was, that's the main one. The question is whether obfuscating the origin of your coins is only for illegal reasons or for very legitimate reasons, such as protecting your privacy.
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
Before any troll suggests it, I was not the one that reported the mixer.   Two years ago I discovered reporting scams here to be useless, as for every one I took down, five more would pop up in the games and rounds section.  It is far more effective to take out the head of the snake.

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?
copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
🖤😏
If you guys wanna talk in general, that's fine but if you want to go after a certain person, it would be better if you name that person, otherwise it could be misinterpreted by others. However to clarify, I was a part of a mixing campaign with a reserved spot on another forum, I realized I was being targeted for wearing the sig, so I tried to make certain people more angry by asking a raise from the manager, they ignored my request and I removed myself from that campaign. Then I wanted to know if certain services is allowed or not. Later I posted on 2 mixer related topics, and after each post someone mentioned those sites were down, so I also mentioned that here as well.

I'm here to support Bitcoin, unlike many milkers pretending to care for the same. 😉

Can someone open the window? Too many fleas after waking up here. Lol.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
There are unfortunately members of this forum who have done far worse than reporting a site, so it's definitely a possibility, especially if you've pissed anyone off recently. Even if not, it could just be someone who doesn't like mixers trying to annoy you. Roll Eyes

That said, a scanning tool used to manually scan the content of a particular customer for various things they've deemed prohibited isn't far fetched either, although, they'd probably only use it if a customer/site were reported. Undecided

Why would the same thing they deemed illegal be okay after you register a business with some government somewhere?

It may be easier to offload legal liability with a registered business to point to as being responsible for the content.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
by the way - can you or @ibminer update the donators page in bpip to point to BitMixList.org instead of .com?

Sure thing, I think ibminer has already taken care of that.

is talking about me

Awww so cute that you recognize yourself from that description.

BTW I also don't think you're enough of a keyboard warrior to actually report the website, but that doesn't excuse your trollfuckery... I mean you're admitting you have no clue what you're talking about, why are you even here (rhetorical question, don't bother).

whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts

Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
I commend NotATether for their efforts in seeing this project through, despite adversary.  This is clearly a full-on war now.

so it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
It makes sense to me.
Not all bitcointalk members have good intentions, and some of them have nothing better to do in life than to report stuff they don't like or support.

I have no doubt that a bitcointalker reported the site to the hosting provider. There are some really deranged trolls here with huge axes to grind against mixers.

Shameful if true.  It's bad enough that we have numerous enemies outside of the community.  But to recognise we have enemies within looking to undermine freedom and privacy is deeply unsettling.   Sad

If a bitcointalk user did this, then it effectively amounts to an act of sabotage.  There is too much at stake for us to allow our efforts to be brought down by such cancerous elements. 

legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
So who really reported NotATether's site? Because if certain somebody quoted by OP, is talking about me, news flash I never leave this forum to look for any sources, whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts, I barely even opened another mixer/software provider using browser.lol after someone confronted me as to whether I had a look or not.

For the record, I don't think it was you.
copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
🖤😏
So who really reported NotATether's site? Because if certain somebody quoted by OP, is talking about me, news flash I never leave this forum to look for any sources, whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts, I barely even opened another mixer/software provider using browser.lol after someone confronted me as to whether I had a look or not.

@Op, I didn't expect this from you.😏
So who ever reported that site, come forward peacefully and exonerate an innocent man. you guys will have to answer to your maker by setting me up.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
so it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
It makes sense to me.
Not all bitcointalk members have good intentions, and some of them have nothing better to do in life than to report stuff they don't like or support.
I am sure hosting providers now have AI bots, so that could also be one of the reasons.

I have no doubt that a bitcointalker reported the site to the hosting provider. There are some really deranged trolls here with huge axes to grind against mixers, including some posting in this thread. Hosting providers, particularly the reseller types that employ chat bots as "support", don't really have the resources to police the content proactively, and don't have the resources to properly review complaints either. That's why the excuse keeps changing and they won't back down not so much because of money laundering / "cryptocurrency" / etc, but because it's too much hassle for them and they want this client to go away.

Now it's making sense.

As a precaution, I enabled Cloudflare on the site and will start searching around on web hosting forums for DMCA-free hosting.

by the way - can you or @ibminer update the donators page in bpip to point to BitMixList.org instead of .com?
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
so it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
It makes sense to me.
Not all bitcointalk members have good intentions, and some of them have nothing better to do in life than to report stuff they don't like or support.
I am sure hosting providers now have AI bots, so that could also be one of the reasons.

I have no doubt that a bitcointalker reported the site to the hosting provider. There are some really deranged trolls here with huge axes to grind against mixers, including some posting in this thread. Hosting providers, particularly the reseller types that employ chat bots as "support", don't really have the resources to police the content proactively, and don't have the resources to properly review complaints either. That's why the excuse keeps changing and they won't back down not so much because of money laundering / "cryptocurrency" / etc, but because it's too much hassle for them and they want this client to go away.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 2736
Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o
so it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
It makes sense to me.
Not all bitcointalk members have good intentions, and some of them have nothing better to do in life than to report stuff they don't like or support.
I am sure hosting providers now have AI bots, so that could also be one of the reasons.
I don't think anyone would want to report an unknown site, I mean the site has just launched a few days ago, hasn't it. On the other hand, many times in the scam accusations we saw people reported a scam site but still it was there. So reporting a site and it worked quickly to ban the site, is not the case.

They obviously have algorithm to detect such sites and to ban it.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
Phishing sites went as far as sending Google a DMCA takedown for the real site, claiming the real site copied their site. I wouldn't rule anything out.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
so it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
It makes sense to me.
Not all bitcointalk members have good intentions, and some of them have nothing better to do in life than to report stuff they don't like or support.
I am sure hosting providers now have AI bots, so that could also be one of the reasons.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
Quote
I had received explicit permission from their compliance team
Have you contacted Audris again?

No I haven't. And I don't even think I'll get a hold of the same person if I try. Yesterday I sent a email to the abuse address similar to the support ticket, and all they replied was:

Thank you for contacting us.

The requested resource(s) has been suspended.

Regards,
Hostinger Abuse team


If this is the kind of result I'm getting from the abuse department, then what is the point of trying to contact the compliance department again.

Maybe someone reported you and your website  Tongue

I don't think so. Because I had only posted it here, which was viewed by about 90 people at the time, so it would've meant that a bitcointalk user reported it, which doesn't make sense.
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