Topic: BITCOINTALK FORUM NEEDS A DEFI SUB-BOARD (Read 590 times)
What is "DeFi" really? Bitcoin is the grandfather of all decentralized finance (as we know it). Between that and Ethereum, you don't really need anything else to take control of your own finances. You don't need to stake coins for high yields of other tokens while hoping other people jump into the game after you. That's not what "decentralized finance" actually means. What we're looking at here is a trend that will blow over when people lose interest in it, which is when they realize there's not actually anything behind it. Its basically the HPoS fad repackaged using smart contracts.
This thread was hot and heated back in DEC '20, I think t still deserve a look in.
There is no need to start this discussion again as majority of the people are not in favor of a separate defi board. If you get the defi board, then you will ask for the NFT board also and you will need boards for every development in the crypto space.
Just remember defi and NFT are all altcoins and already being covered in Altcoins section.
This thread was hot and heated back in DEC '20, I think t still deserve a look in.
If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted, since this sort of thing could be important going forward. Maybe the section for this would go under Dev&Tech and be one of the more serious ones. Are there any actually-serious DeFi systems running? Separately, although I think that it's less valuable, there may be enough buzz around "yield farming" that a section could be warranted for discussing that, maybe under "Altcoin Discussion" and focusing on all strategies for making money via centralized and decentralized yields, discussion of the various risks, but not including announcement threads for specific tokens/services.
There are serious projects in the DEFI ecosystem that allow you to earn 6-10% per annum without risksFor example Compound and Aave.
You can use stablecoin (USDT and USDC or DAI) without risk.
The ecosystem will give you part of the profit and reward you with its tokens for use.
The only drawback of these systems is that commissions for depositing and withdrawing funds can be $ 40-60, and if you deposit $ 1000, then $ 40-60 out of $ 100 of profit will be spent on commissions.
I do not like credit projects and do not recommend investing in them, it is much easier to make money on Ethereum hodling. For example, I earned over 500% this year.
Pharming projects that offer 100-1000% profit per year need to be transferred to the HYIP section.
I hope you will make a section for defi projects, because there is very little discussion of serious defi projects due to low profits. Users tend to try to invest in highly profitable projects, which ultimately leads to a loss of funds.
Unlike much of the ICO stuff from a few years ago, I think that some of the yield farming stuff may have long-term legs. There's a global search for yield, and the fact that you can get substantial yields through crypto is drawing a lot of interest. This may in fact be part of the reason behind the recent BTC price rise.
Even though the yields paid by CeFi services such as BlockFi seem insane, it's actually reasonable due to the high demand and low supply of liquidity, especially in BTC, but also in stablecoins. Your instinct may be to see 6% interest or more and immediately assume that it's a ponzi, but I don't think that this is likely, at least for the major services. I do think that the risks are often underestimated: you're trusting the service itself not to get hacked and not to make stupid trades and go the way of Lehman, and if you're holding stablecoins, you're also trusting the stablecoin issuer.
In addition to dealing in liquidity, some CeFi services are able to offer things like "60% APY" witithout being a Ponzi by implementing something like a covered call options strategy for you, allowing you to sell the unknown and possibly huge ???% upside in BTC's price for a guaranteed lump sum while still holding onto all of BTC's downside risk. They then just market this lump sum options premium as a large "APY".
It seems plausible to me that you could do lending platforms and automated market makers in a decentralized way, and it's probably reasonable for these to provide pretty high yield in return for you providing liquidity. If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy. However, I haven't looked into the current attempts much at all, and I don't know if anyone has actually achieved anything even approaching real decentralization here. In any case, there are huge risks that the collateral coins fail due to counterparty risk (eg. with stablecoins) or technical risks (eg. 50% attacks). The automation could also be flawed in some way which causes losses.
Staking on any cryptocurrency that is not already established for other reasons aside from staking is super risky. That's basically a sort of ponzi scheme, because although you're going to get the promised nominal amounts of cryptocurrency, everyone is just playing a trading game where everyone attempts to extract as much real value from everyone else participating, with no actual real value being added. (Often these are combined with ICO-type promises of ways that real value could actually be added someday, but in 99% of cases it's total nonsense.)
When I look at something like https://harvest.finance, I'm very confused at how all of these tokens such as FARM and CRV work and interact, how decentralized each component is, what "governance" exists in the tokens, and what risks you're exposed to... My intuitive guess is that every component is actually pretty centralized even if it pretends otherwise, and the end result is quite risky, probably more risky than even the high yields warrant. But I haven't researched it.
If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted, since this sort of thing could be important going forward. Maybe the section for this would go under Dev&Tech and be one of the more serious ones. Are there any actually-serious DeFi systems running? Separately, although I think that it's less valuable, there may be enough buzz around "yield farming" that a section could be warranted for discussing that, maybe under "Altcoin Discussion" and focusing on all strategies for making money via centralized and decentralized yields, discussion of the various risks, but not including announcement threads for specific tokens/services.
Even though the yields paid by CeFi services such as BlockFi seem insane, it's actually reasonable due to the high demand and low supply of liquidity, especially in BTC, but also in stablecoins. Your instinct may be to see 6% interest or more and immediately assume that it's a ponzi, but I don't think that this is likely, at least for the major services. I do think that the risks are often underestimated: you're trusting the service itself not to get hacked and not to make stupid trades and go the way of Lehman, and if you're holding stablecoins, you're also trusting the stablecoin issuer.
In addition to dealing in liquidity, some CeFi services are able to offer things like "60% APY" witithout being a Ponzi by implementing something like a covered call options strategy for you, allowing you to sell the unknown and possibly huge ???% upside in BTC's price for a guaranteed lump sum while still holding onto all of BTC's downside risk. They then just market this lump sum options premium as a large "APY".
It seems plausible to me that you could do lending platforms and automated market makers in a decentralized way, and it's probably reasonable for these to provide pretty high yield in return for you providing liquidity. If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy. However, I haven't looked into the current attempts much at all, and I don't know if anyone has actually achieved anything even approaching real decentralization here. In any case, there are huge risks that the collateral coins fail due to counterparty risk (eg. with stablecoins) or technical risks (eg. 50% attacks). The automation could also be flawed in some way which causes losses.
Staking on any cryptocurrency that is not already established for other reasons aside from staking is super risky. That's basically a sort of ponzi scheme, because although you're going to get the promised nominal amounts of cryptocurrency, everyone is just playing a trading game where everyone attempts to extract as much real value from everyone else participating, with no actual real value being added. (Often these are combined with ICO-type promises of ways that real value could actually be added someday, but in 99% of cases it's total nonsense.)
When I look at something like https://harvest.finance, I'm very confused at how all of these tokens such as FARM and CRV work and interact, how decentralized each component is, what "governance" exists in the tokens, and what risks you're exposed to... My intuitive guess is that every component is actually pretty centralized even if it pretends otherwise, and the end result is quite risky, probably more risky than even the high yields warrant. But I haven't researched it.
If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted, since this sort of thing could be important going forward. Maybe the section for this would go under Dev&Tech and be one of the more serious ones. Are there any actually-serious DeFi systems running? Separately, although I think that it's less valuable, there may be enough buzz around "yield farming" that a section could be warranted for discussing that, maybe under "Altcoin Discussion" and focusing on all strategies for making money via centralized and decentralized yields, discussion of the various risks, but not including announcement threads for specific tokens/services.
I'm forced to take a second look at your profile...... And yes, you're the Boss...!
Many ppl have complained, some have sneered, others sweared at me for raising such a request but, yours is about the only carefully thought out response here on this thread! And thank you.
And in fact, I'm emboldened the more to state, without fear or favor, that we definitely need a DEFI SUB-BOARD.
You stated that ".....If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy..."
Yea, that's it! The key to all things DeFi most people don't seem to grasp. THE BITCOIN's purpose of creating a separate non-fiat ECONOMY!
You've said it all.
This is the real crux of the DeFi phenomenon. The real reason the global Central Banks (and their political overlords) are all flipped restless. They didn't pay us any attention during our ICO/IEO scam craze. No, they knew it won't last. So, why are they all jittery now? Simply because there's something in DeFi that challenges their power balance and comfort zone.
Let us not get carried away with the actions of some miscreants in the space, or undermine the enormity of the opportunity breaking before us.
And I repeat, BitcoinTalk is not just 'one of them' as far as the Bitcoin and blockchain advancement is concerned. This is where it all began. And we can see it clearly now that DeFi is the proper grandchild of the Bitcoin technology. DeFi belongs here, let's prepare a suitable home for her here (even if it means a substantial redesign and rethink of the entire space, she deserves that much), let's bring DeFi home
There's a global search for yield, and the fact that you can get substantial yields through crypto is drawing a lot of interest.
Of course there is; we've had interest rates near zero for years. I don't think a lot of members here even realize how different things look and work when interest rates are near 6%, say. Hell, way back in the 1970s interest rates were well above that and lots of people were very comfortable with simple banking savings accounts--and yes, I'm aware that inflation was also high back then. I don't know a lot about DeFi aside from the crazy profit some folks have made with the yield farming stuff, but some of it just sounds so unbelievable that I'm reluctant to even research it, much less invest money in it. But I've been wrong so many times before, it's sickening--especially when I'm 90% ignorant about something.
If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted
Well there you go, OP. I hadn't even expected a response from the boss, but there's hope for a DeFi section yet. It might not be a bad idea at all, especially given that it seems to be so hot right now and apparently different from scammy ICOs. Aside from the need for moderators, it couldn't hurt to make a section for it I guess.
Unlike much of the ICO stuff from a few years ago, I think that some of the yield farming stuff may have long-term legs. There's a global search for yield, and the fact that you can get substantial yields through crypto is drawing a lot of interest. This may in fact be part of the reason behind the recent BTC price rise.
Even though the yields paid by CeFi services such as BlockFi seem insane, it's actually reasonable due to the high demand and low supply of liquidity, especially in BTC, but also in stablecoins. Your instinct may be to see 6% interest or more and immediately assume that it's a ponzi, but I don't think that this is likely, at least for the major services. I do think that the risks are often underestimated: you're trusting the service itself not to get hacked and not to make stupid trades and go the way of Lehman, and if you're holding stablecoins, you're also trusting the stablecoin issuer.
In addition to dealing in liquidity, some CeFi services are able to offer things like "60% APY" witithout being a Ponzi by implementing something like a covered call options strategy for you, allowing you to sell the unknown and possibly huge ???% upside in BTC's price for a guaranteed lump sum while still holding onto all of BTC's downside risk. They then just market this lump sum options premium as a large "APY".
It seems plausible to me that you could do lending platforms and automated market makers in a decentralized way, and it's probably reasonable for these to provide pretty high yield in return for you providing liquidity. If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy. However, I haven't looked into the current attempts much at all, and I don't know if anyone has actually achieved anything even approaching real decentralization here. In any case, there are huge risks that the collateral coins fail due to counterparty risk (eg. with stablecoins) or technical risks (eg. 50% attacks). The automation could also be flawed in some way which causes losses.
Staking on any cryptocurrency that is not already established for other reasons aside from staking is super risky. That's basically a sort of ponzi scheme, because although you're going to get the promised nominal amounts of cryptocurrency, everyone is just playing a trading game where everyone attempts to extract as much real value from everyone else participating, with no actual real value being added. (Often these are combined with ICO-type promises of ways that real value could actually be added someday, but in 99% of cases it's total nonsense.)
When I look at something like https://harvest.finance, I'm very confused at how all of these tokens such as FARM and CRV work and interact, how decentralized each component is, what "governance" exists in the tokens, and what risks you're exposed to... My intuitive guess is that every component is actually pretty centralized even if it pretends otherwise, and the end result is quite risky, probably more risky than even the high yields warrant. But I haven't researched it.
If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted, since this sort of thing could be important going forward. Maybe the section for this would go under Dev&Tech and be one of the more serious ones. Are there any actually-serious DeFi systems running? Separately, although I think that it's less valuable, there may be enough buzz around "yield farming" that a section could be warranted for discussing that, maybe under "Altcoin Discussion" and focusing on all strategies for making money via centralized and decentralized yields, discussion of the various risks, but not including announcement threads for specific tokens/services.
Even though the yields paid by CeFi services such as BlockFi seem insane, it's actually reasonable due to the high demand and low supply of liquidity, especially in BTC, but also in stablecoins. Your instinct may be to see 6% interest or more and immediately assume that it's a ponzi, but I don't think that this is likely, at least for the major services. I do think that the risks are often underestimated: you're trusting the service itself not to get hacked and not to make stupid trades and go the way of Lehman, and if you're holding stablecoins, you're also trusting the stablecoin issuer.
In addition to dealing in liquidity, some CeFi services are able to offer things like "60% APY" witithout being a Ponzi by implementing something like a covered call options strategy for you, allowing you to sell the unknown and possibly huge ???% upside in BTC's price for a guaranteed lump sum while still holding onto all of BTC's downside risk. They then just market this lump sum options premium as a large "APY".
It seems plausible to me that you could do lending platforms and automated market makers in a decentralized way, and it's probably reasonable for these to provide pretty high yield in return for you providing liquidity. If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy. However, I haven't looked into the current attempts much at all, and I don't know if anyone has actually achieved anything even approaching real decentralization here. In any case, there are huge risks that the collateral coins fail due to counterparty risk (eg. with stablecoins) or technical risks (eg. 50% attacks). The automation could also be flawed in some way which causes losses.
Staking on any cryptocurrency that is not already established for other reasons aside from staking is super risky. That's basically a sort of ponzi scheme, because although you're going to get the promised nominal amounts of cryptocurrency, everyone is just playing a trading game where everyone attempts to extract as much real value from everyone else participating, with no actual real value being added. (Often these are combined with ICO-type promises of ways that real value could actually be added someday, but in 99% of cases it's total nonsense.)
When I look at something like https://harvest.finance, I'm very confused at how all of these tokens such as FARM and CRV work and interact, how decentralized each component is, what "governance" exists in the tokens, and what risks you're exposed to... My intuitive guess is that every component is actually pretty centralized even if it pretends otherwise, and the end result is quite risky, probably more risky than even the high yields warrant. But I haven't researched it.
If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted, since this sort of thing could be important going forward. Maybe the section for this would go under Dev&Tech and be one of the more serious ones. Are there any actually-serious DeFi systems running? Separately, although I think that it's less valuable, there may be enough buzz around "yield farming" that a section could be warranted for discussing that, maybe under "Altcoin Discussion" and focusing on all strategies for making money via centralized and decentralized yields, discussion of the various risks, but not including announcement threads for specific tokens/services.
You're wrong. DeFi is not a scam trend.
You are not wrong, but your assumption may be wrong. In the long run DeFi won't last and be forgotten by people as it is with ICO and IEO. Even though I didn't make the calculations, I'm sure 90 +% of DeFi project will end badly and end up scam.This kind of merit begging will rather get you a negative feedback. 
The OP may not really suggest the idea, he just want to make a thread that look like a quality thread and get merit. 
We already have a DeFi subboard. See here: Scam Accusations
This thread may give you a brief overview of what's out there: DeFi-Scams - Big All-In-One-Thread
And no - IMHO we don't need another spam board. Leave all this garbage in the Altcoin section, which is nobody reading anyway.
This kind of merit begging will rather get you a negative feedback.
This thread may give you a brief overview of what's out there: DeFi-Scams - Big All-In-One-Thread
And no - IMHO we don't need another spam board. Leave all this garbage in the Altcoin section, which is nobody reading anyway.
If you agree With this request please hit the '+Merit' button for me.
This kind of merit begging will rather get you a negative feedback.
I think new sub forums should be created for long term purposes. So don't be tempted to facilitate something that is temporary.
After all, I'm sure 80% of the threads to be created will be about the announcement of new defi projects and some news about them that are still in the altcoin category.
After all, I'm sure 80% of the threads to be created will be about the announcement of new defi projects and some news about them that are still in the altcoin category.
You're wrong. DeFi is not a scam trend.
Yes, some unscrupulous elements are presently taking undue advantage of its current hype to perpetrate their thieving acts, but, it still doesn't make the entire DeFi idea eveil. Remember, the 1st real use case of our now beloved Bitcoin was Silk Road. So, is BTC scam?
Most of them are the same as happened to ICO, IEO and others. I assumed that the hype would disappear over time and be replaced by other methods later.Yes, some unscrupulous elements are presently taking undue advantage of its current hype to perpetrate their thieving acts, but, it still doesn't make the entire DeFi idea eveil. Remember, the 1st real use case of our now beloved Bitcoin was Silk Road. So, is BTC scam?
My advice that you might consider is not to force your want and desires to get something when most people don't want it. You may be able to suggest and ask if that is possible or not, but decision will be made if necessary. Altcoin discussion board seems still quite feasible to accommodate discussion ideas about defi because it is part of altcoin, so there is no need to create a sub-board again if there is something new.
People would not say bitcoin is a scam even if it is potentially used in an illegal way. If anything, they would also say that fiat and paper money are a king of scam because their illegal use is higher than bitcoin. I don't know why you're comparing Defi to bitcoin, which obviously doesn't take much hype to remain the king of crypto. Defi, ICO, IEO are project that still need a lot of funds to survive and develop, have you come across bitcoin like that ?
Hey admin, give a corner "sarcasm"
It's is the new form of scamming the noobs who have very little idea about crypto but they want to invest in quick money making method. It's another of ICO, IEO trend. So, do you think every scam trend should have a board? No.
It's is the new form of scamming the noobs who have very little idea about crypto but they want to invest in quick money making method. It's another of ICO, IEO trend. So, do you think every scam trend should have a board? No.
You're wrong. DeFi is not a scam trend.
Yes, some unscrupulous elements are presently taking undue advantage of its current hype to perpetrate their thieving acts, but, it still doesn't make the entire DeFi idea eveil. Remember, the 1st real use case of our now beloved Bitcoin was Silk Road. So, is BTC scam?
legendary
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Hey admin, give a corner "sarcasm"
It's is the new form of scamming the noobs who have very little idea about crypto but they want to invest in quick money making method. It's another of ICO, IEO trend. So, do you think every scam trend should have a board? No.
It's is the new form of scamming the noobs who have very little idea about crypto but they want to invest in quick money making method. It's another of ICO, IEO trend. So, do you think every scam trend should have a board? No.
But a lot of new projects now comfortably ignore this forum before, during and after their launch. And that's because we ain't reinventing ourselves quickly enough to maintain relevance.
DeFi is happening now, let's hitch our beloved forum on its back and watch it ride back to prominence.
If there aren't even more than a handful of topics on the first few pages of Altcoin boards, then I doubt it.DeFi is happening now, let's hitch our beloved forum on its back and watch it ride back to prominence.
Better yet, try to find a quality thread in the Altcoin section about DeFi.
There is nothing great about DeFi projects, they are also alternative cryptocurrencies, any coin that isn't bitcoin they are altcoin, if we have to talk about DeFi it's good to create topics about them but under altcoin discussion section, decentralized Finance is a use case, Centralized finance is a use case too, it doesn't make sense to create sub boards for them
I beg to differ sir. And with good reason, DeFi is not an altcoin topic
For starters here's a post where
The Bitcoin's Lightning Network is already stress-testing its DeFi pool and preparing for launch
Here's another report of
RSK's POWPEG being used to facilitate defi on the BTC mailn chain
If you agree With this request please hit the '+Merit' button for me.
Thank you.
Big brain move Thank you.
. Nice try dude lol. Well, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are a member only. Maybe (just maybe) you just not fully understand yet the purpose of Merit System. But yeah, like the others said, having merits doesn't make your thread more visible. This one, and the rest of threads, will go the next pages as new topics are created. But don't worry, it will your thread will remain on top and see by others as long as someone replies.Anyway, going back to the topic. I also think that creating a sub board for defis is not necessary at all. Did the mods created a sub board when ICOs, IEOs and Airdrops are booming way back on their past times? Of course not. Then what more for Defis. This board is enough and besides the hype train will vanish away eventually.
OK, I can see that now. The merit system here works differently than I thought. I thought it was like the upvote sysstemon most other platforms.
The more I hear you guys refer to DeFi as an ICO/IEO/AIRDROP equivalent, however, the more I feel the need to for enlightenment on this forum. Many if us are still very confused about the topic of DeFi.
Like someone mentioned above, though, I might have to launch that on my private forum. A blog, maybe.
If they want to do it, they could have done it long ago but those are not really important because every year projects are evolving and most of the time they create something innovative than the last time but they still belong to the category of Altcoins and maybe next year we will see another trend than what we already have now like Defi. Nevertheless, it is convenient to see such kinds of topics on this board we can classify them anyway if we are avid readers of this board.
We're already grateful Altcoins are being discussed here in Bitcointalk.org, everyone knew Defi projects belongs to the Alternate Cryptocurrencies. Defi by definition isn't an altcoin but part of decentralization development when it comes to financial system, its kind of governance. If there is really a board for it I think its the DAOtalk.
If you agree With this request please hit the '+Merit' button for me.
Thank you.
Big brain move Thank you.
. Nice try dude lol. Well, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are a member only. Maybe (just maybe) you just not fully understand yet the purpose of Merit System. But yeah, like the others said, having merits doesn't make your thread more visible. This one, and the rest of threads, will go the next pages as new topics are created. But don't worry, it will your thread will remain on top and see by others as long as someone replies.Anyway, going back to the topic. I also think that creating a sub board for defis is not necessary at all. Did the mods created a sub board when ICOs, IEOs and Airdrops are booming way back on their past times? Of course not. Then what more for Defis. This board is enough and besides the hype train will vanish away eventually.
There is nothing great about DeFi projects, they are also alternative cryptocurrencies, any coin that isn't bitcoin they are altcoin, if we have to talk about DeFi it's good to create topics about them but under altcoin discussion section, decentralized Finance is a use case, Centralized finance is a use case too, it doesn't make sense to create sub boards for them
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