Agreed. And I gets my 3rd post!
Mine too!
Topic: Bitcointalk needs to be more noob friendly - page 4. (Read 5648 times)
I am going to admit I did read the whole thread just the first couple post, but I would say what is needed is a tutorial. If there were a 5 min video that could explain the main points of of how to use and behave on the forum it would greatly help.
I do have a friend a who is a video producer if the forum wanted to pay him i am sure he could make a decent video for cheap.
I think the reason that your time wasnt logging is because you weren't active on the site. Which is the way it should be.
Sorry if I have posted information already covered.
I do have a friend a who is a video producer if the forum wanted to pay him i am sure he could make a decent video for cheap.
I think the reason that your time wasnt logging is because you weren't active on the site. Which is the way it should be.
Sorry if I have posted information already covered.
Part of the unfriendliness to noobs is caused be the endless repetition of allready hundereds of times answered questions (for the fourth year and counting). A part of the solution could be learning material and tests before you are allowed to post on the forums, possibly separate materials and tests for different forums.
i dont mind this so much. I expect that it usually takes me a lot less time for me to quickly answer a basic question than to than it does for a noob to search though archives in-order to find that answer.
One of the struggles bitcoin needs to overcome to achieve mass acceptance is ease of use and understanding. Bitcoin Talk plays an invaluable role in this process as noobs and not-so-noobs venture here to understand, to teach, to help each other and more broadly bitcoin.
I guess this forum is good as it is... Bitcoin need to be more popular - somehow generally accepted / know type of payments... Just as easy to use as Paypal for general public when most oh them are not interested in technical etc. things = not interested in this kind of forums. There needs to be place like that to discuss just backend etc deeper things beyond simple use. So, there might be no need to change Bitcoin Talk too much. Just my two cents.
yes the newbie corner is not a good idea because you cant get any answers to questions regarding and issues you may have regarding mining or pools, so i have to spam other threads in order to get to the technical support..... 
As someone who just recently got out of the newbie jail, I think it's a good thing.
However, I do think there may be something worthwhile in the OP. When you're involved in a community for a long enough period of time, you forget what being outside of that community feels like. A newbie like myself then has insight you can't obtain on your own. That insight may be valuable.
Was I annoyed by the jail? A little bit. Do I think it serves a valuable purpose? Yes. In fact, I've used it as a positive attribute of this community when describing it to others.
Here's the larger concern: The forums are overwhelming.
Want to learn about ASICMINER? How much free time do you have to read through 106 pages of forum posts?
It's understandable for those who have put in the time to be frustrated with those who are unwilling to do so. My thought is, most of the population has no freaking clue how their money works ("But... I thought the money I deposit in my bank is actually in there...?"). For Bitcoin to become more widely adopted, these are the type of people that will have to feel confident using it. People fear change and many fear technology. Sure, they could read the wikipedia page and get up to speed rather quickly, but most probably won't even go that far. The bitcoin wiki is helpful also, but again, there's a lot of info there for someone to read if they are still trying to evaluate "is this worth my time?"
So what's the solution? I'd love to see more videos explaining bitcoin. I'd love to see a "top posts" summary section in the forums. Maybe even some weekly summaries of the best discussions, filtered down into usable pieces of information within specific categories.
Someone could even setup a business for this. Charge a small subscription fee, pay contributors a small reward for writing great content. etc...
But hopefully my original point is understood. The forums have so much information at this point that new members feel overwhelmed. Maybe there should be a separate way for them to learn about bitcoin, get their questions answered and not lose 3 or 4 weekends doing it.
Or we could just keep things as they are.
However, I do think there may be something worthwhile in the OP. When you're involved in a community for a long enough period of time, you forget what being outside of that community feels like. A newbie like myself then has insight you can't obtain on your own. That insight may be valuable.
Was I annoyed by the jail? A little bit. Do I think it serves a valuable purpose? Yes. In fact, I've used it as a positive attribute of this community when describing it to others.
Here's the larger concern: The forums are overwhelming.
Want to learn about ASICMINER? How much free time do you have to read through 106 pages of forum posts?
It's understandable for those who have put in the time to be frustrated with those who are unwilling to do so. My thought is, most of the population has no freaking clue how their money works ("But... I thought the money I deposit in my bank is actually in there...?"). For Bitcoin to become more widely adopted, these are the type of people that will have to feel confident using it. People fear change and many fear technology. Sure, they could read the wikipedia page and get up to speed rather quickly, but most probably won't even go that far. The bitcoin wiki is helpful also, but again, there's a lot of info there for someone to read if they are still trying to evaluate "is this worth my time?"
So what's the solution? I'd love to see more videos explaining bitcoin. I'd love to see a "top posts" summary section in the forums. Maybe even some weekly summaries of the best discussions, filtered down into usable pieces of information within specific categories.
Someone could even setup a business for this. Charge a small subscription fee, pay contributors a small reward for writing great content. etc...
But hopefully my original point is understood. The forums have so much information at this point that new members feel overwhelmed. Maybe there should be a separate way for them to learn about bitcoin, get their questions answered and not lose 3 or 4 weekends doing it.
Or we could just keep things as they are.
Agreed. And I gets my 3rd post!
and let me guess - about 17 minutes on the clock?
2 *HOURS* and 17 minutes. 4th! I'm a pro now? The main annoyance is when I do actually have something productive to say in a non noob section. Oh yeah, I have to hit refresh another 5000 times.
There are probably some really good automatic detection algorithms we could use to automatically trigger extra hoops to jump through/filter posts like gmail does for spam, some kind of heuristic algo. Nothing will ever be conman-proof but this is the intarwebs. There has already been months of discussion and quite a large pool of BTC to go around for a new forum to be developed, but I think I'd rather shepherd 450 feral cats.
I hated being stuck in the noob ghetto, especially since I'm a programmer that has written implementations of encryption and I've known about Bitcoin for years. But I see it as a necessary evil, as spammers and scammers will otherwise find this place an easy target. Still, I vote for cutting the time necessary in half. I'm a legit member of this forum, but I still spent some time gaming while occasionally clicking on something or pressing F5, just to get the time required to escape newbie hell.
There's other reasons why the restrictions were imposed. Scammers were making accounts en masse and changing accounts once they're being found out, and the restrictions make their lives harder.
I think this is on topic if not remove the post.
Spammer scammers can still do what you're saying. A kid with a "Speak n Code" (lame joke about "Speak n Spell") app, like a macro app in FF or Google Crime can make ten or more accounts and still have the spares ready to go when one gets booted.
The definte on topic part is that I have spent at least 8+ hours on here and so far have credit for 3h:12m. Instead of pointlessly clicking on links to keep pinging the server I've been trying to read and learn, but I'm getting killed in my time stats for trying to play the game according to my perceived intent of the rule.
One of the struggles bitcoin needs to overcome to achieve mass acceptance is ease of use and understanding. Bitcoin Talk plays an invaluable role in this process as noobs and not-so-noobs venture here to understand, to teach, to help each other and more broadly bitcoin.
.......
.......
I concur. I'm out of noob prison on posts but my time has been FUBAR. Like you I spent too much time reading posts trying to get up to speed and not jumping around on content like a flea on meth.
I've probably already spent too much time writing this so later I gotta hop around.
I think it's better that we have a place for newbies here
if you ask stupid questions here you generally get an explanation or are pointed to one
i think if they just let you post anywhere, the senior members would just ignore you
if you ask stupid questions here you generally get an explanation or are pointed to one
i think if they just let you post anywhere, the senior members would just ignore you
Noob jail is incredibly annoying but necessary.
Post #2!
Post #2!
Here's a suggestion - why don't all new members fill out a questionnaire with questions like:
Did you vote?
Are you a HIPSTER?
Do you believe in Scientology?
Do you understand the basic premise of encryption?
Do you understand that the value of bitcoin will fluctuate in response to the demands of the economy?
Do you know how to use a search box?
If and ONLY IF they answer all those questions "correctly" - we let them in. woop woop!
/sarcasm
Did you vote?
Are you a HIPSTER?
Do you believe in Scientology?
Do you understand the basic premise of encryption?
Do you understand that the value of bitcoin will fluctuate in response to the demands of the economy?
Do you know how to use a search box?
If and ONLY IF they answer all those questions "correctly" - we let them in. woop woop!
/sarcasm
FTFY.
There's other reasons why the restrictions were imposed. Scammers were making accounts en masse and changing accounts once they're being found out, and the restrictions make their lives harder.
Here's a suggestion - why don't all new members fill out a questionnaire with questions like:
Did you vote romney or obama
Are you a prepper
Do you believe in UFO's
Are Bitcoins Hackable
Will Bitcoins always go up in value
Do bitcoin noobs suck ass
If and ONLY IF they answer all those questions "correctly" - we let them in. woop woop!
/sarcasm
Did you vote romney or obama
Are you a prepper
Do you believe in UFO's
Are Bitcoins Hackable
Will Bitcoins always go up in value
Do bitcoin noobs suck ass
If and ONLY IF they answer all those questions "correctly" - we let them in. woop woop!
/sarcasm
That kind of attitude isn't good for bitcoin.
I guess my mistake was I lurked for a long time, eventually wanted to comment on something and found myself beating my head against a wall.
There are better solutions than hostility towards noobs and perceived noobs (based on their post counts)
I guess my mistake was I lurked for a long time, eventually wanted to comment on something and found myself beating my head against a wall.
There are better solutions than hostility towards noobs and perceived noobs (based on their post counts)
One of the struggles bitcoin needs to overcome to achieve mass acceptance is ease of use and understanding. Bitcoin Talk plays an invaluable role in this process as noobs and not-so-noobs venture here to understand, to teach, to help each other and more broadly bitcoin.
While I understand from a spam protection point of view, bitcointalk needs to have measures in place to deal with spammy bastards, there is a fine balance to be struck between controlling spam and facilitating the participation of newbies.
I've spent about 8 hours trying to accumulate the required 4 hours logged in time, because I can't just leave a browser open, and the session doesn't seem to carry for a few minutes (so if I spend longer than a few minutes reading a thread, those minutes aren't counted) - I've also found there to be a little bit of elitist attitude to participating in the forums. ie. "you need to know enough about bitcoins before you can participate" - that's not the right attitude, in fact it should be "welcome, you are new and you know nothing, so welcome into the fold, we will teach you".
I'm not one to criticise without making practical suggestions:
1) Definitely reduce the "total logged in time" - arguably to as low as 30 minutes should be more than enough to fight off the spammers.
2) Noobs need more forums where they can discuss things and feel included, rather than just a "noobs" forum.
3) A general attitude change to welcome noobs - to be honest I haven't found this place too elitist, save for a few threads in the noobs forum
4) Some hoops noobs can jump through to get verified more quickly - ie. the "Get me out of here" thread should theoretically auto-approve posters because they are clearly not bots. Or some other form of second stage authentication.
The other thing I noticed when I first joined is the noobs thread took a bit of finding, and I only went looking after I discovered I couldn't reply to a post. I'm not sure what measures are in place to provide info to noobs about their restrictions, my feedback would be to make this more obvious/prominent.
Meant with the best will in the world, for the betterment of bitcointalk and the community in general.
Vince
While I understand from a spam protection point of view, bitcointalk needs to have measures in place to deal with spammy bastards, there is a fine balance to be struck between controlling spam and facilitating the participation of newbies.
I've spent about 8 hours trying to accumulate the required 4 hours logged in time, because I can't just leave a browser open, and the session doesn't seem to carry for a few minutes (so if I spend longer than a few minutes reading a thread, those minutes aren't counted) - I've also found there to be a little bit of elitist attitude to participating in the forums. ie. "you need to know enough about bitcoins before you can participate" - that's not the right attitude, in fact it should be "welcome, you are new and you know nothing, so welcome into the fold, we will teach you".
I'm not one to criticise without making practical suggestions:
1) Definitely reduce the "total logged in time" - arguably to as low as 30 minutes should be more than enough to fight off the spammers.
2) Noobs need more forums where they can discuss things and feel included, rather than just a "noobs" forum.
3) A general attitude change to welcome noobs - to be honest I haven't found this place too elitist, save for a few threads in the noobs forum
4) Some hoops noobs can jump through to get verified more quickly - ie. the "Get me out of here" thread should theoretically auto-approve posters because they are clearly not bots. Or some other form of second stage authentication.
The other thing I noticed when I first joined is the noobs thread took a bit of finding, and I only went looking after I discovered I couldn't reply to a post. I'm not sure what measures are in place to provide info to noobs about their restrictions, my feedback would be to make this more obvious/prominent.
Meant with the best will in the world, for the betterment of bitcointalk and the community in general.
Vince
how about:
1) restrict noobs to only the "Newbie Restrictions" and "Helpful Articles For Newcomers" threads for 1hr. Noob must click at least 4 of the links in the "Helpful Articles For Newcomers" thread. Then, 2hrs of active logged in time in the Newbies section.
2) If they don't wanna be noobs, they can start their own forums, with their own rules.
3) Most noobs tend to be a) rude, b) immature, c) lazy d) ignorant e) lazy. I'd say at least 1/2 the threads posted by people with less than 5 posts are questions that have been asked dozens of times already, and could be found with a simple search. When advised to go do a little research, they get belligerent and hostile. They want everything spoonfed to them on a diamond-encrusted platinum spork.
4) Hell no. If anything, we need to make it harder for noobs to get to the other sections of the boards. Goes back to point one: restrict them to two threads, force them to a) read and acknowledge the rules/restrictions, and links to helpful articles/info/threads that they can read so they don't pollute the forums with nonsense that's been asked over and over and over ad nauseum. I have no issues providing a nudge in the right direction, but the newcomer needs to be willing to at least put ina little effort...
I've registered and never get the limits of the newbie account, because I started reading every thread in this site before open my mouth. I just say hello and a few comments. I spent hours reading and that is what most people do before to talk something is already replied 300 times.
THIS. I did the same thing. Other than introducing myself in that thread, I spent hours, days even, reading threads, comparing opinions, getting a feel for the lay of the land, as it were. Even after I shed my noob status, I spent most of my time in the Newbies section reading more threads, following links, trying to learn as much as I could about bitcoin before diving in. The trouble with a lot of newcomers is they have this attitude that the community owes them an education.
Dude, get lost, seriously. I'm not gonna bother with someone as thick-skulled as yourself. Had I detected even a shred of enlightened thought or observation in you, then I might bother giving you a few minutes of my time. But I didn't.
He certainly behaves like 13. But, hey, it's us who should "stop acting so stupid", not him.
And here yet another lie you told.....
Keep them coming!
He certainly behaves like 13. But, hey, it's us who should "stop acting so stupid", not him.
^^ Is he 13? ^^
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