Topic: Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet without any value or legal power - page 4. (Read 1876 times)
October 07, 2017, 04:46:53 AM
While what you say was true at a point, say during 2009-11, now its market value will continue to keep it running as perceived value is a big thing in the market. And some countries have started to accept its value as a defacto asset, so that will further legitimize this system.
October 07, 2017, 04:35:22 AM
October 07, 2017, 04:19:51 AM
I think it's the same with cash, if no one wants to use it then the money is the same as paper can be worthless. different again with gold because gold is no price is not the same as cash. while the price of money in clay from his nominal writing.
In fact it is depending on the interest of the people. some time when we take interest in some thing its value start increasing, but when we ignore it then it also lose it value, and i think we have very good examples from our daily life. For example if we study Doge it was in its peak position when people were taking interest in it, but later one due to lack of the interest of the people Doge price start decreasing and now it is about to die. Bitcoin is in power now and many people are completely depending upon bitcoin. It also has no owner due to its decentralized nature so it will live a life equal to the planet's remaining life.
October 06, 2017, 11:34:41 AM
I think there is no deferent for fiat and butcoins they are they same that there is a value for people but if you realy understand bitcoin then you can say that bitcoin is superior specialy in securety and and fastest transaction
October 06, 2017, 10:00:42 AM
Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.
If my analysis is correct, I think that the same can be said to money. If nobody wants to accept them they are just pieces of paper with numbers, places and faces of known person in them. Everything in this world can lose its value if no one acknowledge it and that includes money not just bitcoin. We know that btc is valueless when it started but then people started realizing its value thus making it valuable to people like me. I just hope you're not one of those people who speak rudely of btc then later on purchased and invested in it.
October 06, 2017, 08:23:21 AM
October 06, 2017, 08:19:29 AM
And what can you do with your fiat money (Dollars, Euros, etc.) if noone accepts it anymore because too much of it was printed and now noone wants the paper anymore? How much Bitcoins can you print? Where is the inflation, in fiat or in Bitcoins?
It's all a question of trust. As long as people (not all of course) trust in bitcoin and are willing to pay for it, there is a worth of the coins. Same goes for fiat and all currencies and assets.
I already answered this. Since Dollars are backed by debt, and debt is backed by collateral of specified immovable or movable property, if nobody wants to accept dollars those who recieved the loans are forced to accept them since otherwise they would not be able to repay their debts, a legal case would be established against them, and the bank would take their property. No such legal obligations are behind Bitcoins as the software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations. That's why, on their own, Bitcoins are completely useless.It's all a question of trust. As long as people (not all of course) trust in bitcoin and are willing to pay for it, there is a worth of the coins. Same goes for fiat and all currencies and assets.
Just take a look at Venezuela or Zimbabwe, their currency lost pretty much all value. I don't know what that meant for debts in those currencies.
October 06, 2017, 07:41:40 AM
You have been quite repetitive about numbers. In simple words, Bitcoin is mathematical/cryptographical representation of money, programmable money. As far its value is concerned, it is again quite simple, utility, Bitcoin has all the attributes of money, be it store of value, unit of account, and medium of exchange. Yeah right now Bitcoin isn't a reliable medium of exchange, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be. To make it more simple, as with any currency, Bitcoins value comes from its perceived value, people who use it and think it's valuable.
Yeah, Fiat money is debt and debt is Fiat. Backed by debt and value generated by enforcement. Money is created when loans are issued and debts incurred; money is extinguished when loans are repaid.
Yeah, Fiat money is debt and debt is Fiat. Backed by debt and value generated by enforcement. Money is created when loans are issued and debts incurred; money is extinguished when loans are repaid.
Quote
If all the bank loans were paid up, no one would have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of currency or coin in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks for our money. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money, we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent monetary system. When one gets a complete grasp upon the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible. - Robert H. Hemphill
October 06, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
Right, Bitcoin doesn't have any "intrinsic value", but so does the $1 bill. In truth, almost nothing in the world of trading and money has “intrinsic value.” Money has only the value that is ascribed to it over time. Fiat currency, issued by nations, has always faced distrust from skeptics who say it is backed only a government’s good faith. Then comes gold, gold itself has no intrinsic value. Its supply is limited (as is bitcoin, a strength of the digital currency), creating a relationship between supply and demand that cannot easily be manipulated. But gold itself has no value per se other than that ascribed to it by humans over time.
Bitcoin is disruptive technology opening new avenues of exchange and enrichment, empowering individuals, and weakening the hold of the state and large corporations, it do have potential even if the price is running on faith and supply and demand. It can sustain its value.
That is not true. Money has intrinsic value because it is backed by debt, while debt is backed by imovable or movable property. In the past, monetary system was based on a gold standard. Today, monetary system is based on a property standard.Bitcoin is disruptive technology opening new avenues of exchange and enrichment, empowering individuals, and weakening the hold of the state and large corporations, it do have potential even if the price is running on faith and supply and demand. It can sustain its value.
You used one word right, and i made it bold for you. Today.
What you lack of is vision of the (very near) future. And lack of understanding what bitcoin actually is and how it works.
And you have delusions about currently used money.
And you're just repeating yourself constantly without really discussing anything, referring only to the points where you can basically copy-paste what you already said.
So yes, congratulations, you are officialy a troll on some forum.
October 06, 2017, 06:08:25 AM
i doubt bank have the money enough to all people, if all people withdraw his money from bank to cash, im sure bank didnt have money to pay all customer, for me the number balance in bank is just number no more.
October 06, 2017, 05:40:33 AM
It is millenial and bitcoin is part of it where another alternative way of investment has been created. We should not compare it in banks where we use to have the actual cash on our side which will be deposited to our bank accounts. I think it's better to align it with stocks. Maybe it is also an empty numbers for some but it has its own values where we can convert it. Bitcoin has its own terms and policy and so far i have not heard of anyone yet who has been denied for it bitcoin value once converted or encashed to authorized partners.
October 06, 2017, 04:51:40 AM
Right, Bitcoin doesn't have any "intrinsic value", but so does the $1 bill. In truth, almost nothing in the world of trading and money has “intrinsic value.” Money has only the value that is ascribed to it over time. Fiat currency, issued by nations, has always faced distrust from skeptics who say it is backed only a government’s good faith. Then comes gold, gold itself has no intrinsic value. Its supply is limited (as is bitcoin, a strength of the digital currency), creating a relationship between supply and demand that cannot easily be manipulated. But gold itself has no value per se other than that ascribed to it by humans over time.
Bitcoin is disruptive technology opening new avenues of exchange and enrichment, empowering individuals, and weakening the hold of the state and large corporations, it do have potential even if the price is running on faith and supply and demand. It can sustain its value.
That is not true. Money has intrinsic value because it is backed by debt, while debt is backed by imovable or movable property. In the past, monetary system was based on a gold standard. Today, monetary system is based on a property standard. Bitcoin is disruptive technology opening new avenues of exchange and enrichment, empowering individuals, and weakening the hold of the state and large corporations, it do have potential even if the price is running on faith and supply and demand. It can sustain its value.
October 06, 2017, 04:48:11 AM
Everyone has the right to the opinion, I can't deny that but I would like to see some real agruments and informations for whatever the attitude is. Bitcoin has the value that can't be measured on traditional way like classic fiat currencies and not the same rules can't be applied. But for understanding that some knowledge about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies and blockchain is needed but that is obviously mising here.
October 06, 2017, 04:44:07 AM
Good luck to your opinion though but I just withdrawn with my Bitcoin into my Fiat local money amounting $1000 yesterday and I guarantee you that it is not an empty numbers because I am now spending it with my things and food. This is a modern technology digital currency and we are here in the digital world so I think it is necessary to have it, they are still haters that really can't accept that fact.
Bitcoins as of now when I am typing this is backed up by $72,987,343,018 and with that I am confident that it has a value and not an empty numbers because it is full of numbers that resulted of billions. It is true that Bitcoin is not tangible but it has a value right now even you deny it all day.
Of course that you can exchange Bitcoins for fiat, goods and services - this is their basic purpose, that's why they even exist in the first place and this is how those who inveneted them are coming into possession of real property in exchange for nothing. Bitcoins as of now when I am typing this is backed up by $72,987,343,018 and with that I am confident that it has a value and not an empty numbers because it is full of numbers that resulted of billions. It is true that Bitcoin is not tangible but it has a value right now even you deny it all day.
What I am arguing is that Bitcoins are just emptly numbers without any real value to its owner - he can't eat them, drink them, wear them, drive them, sit on them, enter into them, please the aesthetic senses with them or made a legal case to come into possession of goods and services with such capacities, like in the case of fiat. Simply put, those who invented Bitcoin received real market values in the form of goods, services and fiat, in exchange for some empty numbers recorded in a public ledger called a blockchain. Can this blockchain be used to satisfy human needs? No. Can this blockchain be used to establish a legal case and get some kind of value out of it? No. Thus, Bitcoin is neither good nor service nor money not asset, but instead it is some empty number on the internet.
October 06, 2017, 04:30:31 AM
it always amuses me to see how some people go through all the trouble of creating a new account, typing some long text on a "bitcoin oriented forum" which majority of its users understand bitcoin even if it is little understanding, and then they speak of bitcoin without any understanding of it.
saying it on a regular forum that regular people visit may fool one or two gullible ones, but here....
saying it on a regular forum that regular people visit may fool one or two gullible ones, but here....
October 06, 2017, 04:10:32 AM
Right, Bitcoin doesn't have any "intrinsic value", but so does the $1 bill. In truth, almost nothing in the world of trading and money has “intrinsic value.” Money has only the value that is ascribed to it over time. Fiat currency, issued by nations, has always faced distrust from skeptics who say it is backed only a government’s good faith. Then comes gold, gold itself has no intrinsic value. Its supply is limited (as is bitcoin, a strength of the digital currency), creating a relationship between supply and demand that cannot easily be manipulated. But gold itself has no value per se other than that ascribed to it by humans over time.
Bitcoin is disruptive technology opening new avenues of exchange and enrichment, empowering individuals, and weakening the hold of the state and large corporations, it do have potential even if the price is running on faith and supply and demand. It can sustain its value.
Bitcoin is disruptive technology opening new avenues of exchange and enrichment, empowering individuals, and weakening the hold of the state and large corporations, it do have potential even if the price is running on faith and supply and demand. It can sustain its value.
October 06, 2017, 03:59:16 AM
October 06, 2017, 03:57:40 AM
And what can you do with your fiat money (Dollars, Euros, etc.) if noone accepts it anymore because too much of it was printed and now noone wants the paper anymore? How much Bitcoins can you print? Where is the inflation, in fiat or in Bitcoins?
It's all a question of trust. As long as people (not all of course) trust in bitcoin and are willing to pay for it, there is a worth of the coins. Same goes for fiat and all currencies and assets.
I already answered this. Since Dollars are backed by debt, and debt is backed by collateral of specified immovable or movable property, if nobody wants to accept dollars those who recieved the loans are forced to accept them since otherwise they would not be able to repay their debts, a legal case would be established against them, and the bank would take their property. No such legal obligations are behind Bitcoins as the software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations. That's why, on their own, Bitcoins are completely useless. It's all a question of trust. As long as people (not all of course) trust in bitcoin and are willing to pay for it, there is a worth of the coins. Same goes for fiat and all currencies and assets.
October 06, 2017, 03:55:12 AM
OP, you are basically trying hard to criticize the presence and valuation module of bitcoins bt challenging the ways that are being conducted already in the real world. You said What if nobody accepts Bitcoin? Look, it's basically a digital token that was made to transact some secret values underneath two parties' contract based on their consent and nobody knows about it (though it's not completely anonymous). So, when gold has nothing to do with it's ^value^ because it's been used since ages with people's own way to give value to it, don't you think bitcoin also possess the same properties for which it should and can be valued like gold in real world?
October 06, 2017, 03:54:59 AM
May i know the basis for your argument? Bitcoin is a digital currency - currency meaning it has value. You can earn it by buying or earning through siganture campaigns and other online freelance jobs. It may not be well adapted in many countries, or limited merchants accepts them as of this year, but i have read other people even paying for their meals using bitcoin. I hope you did some reading or research before writing that post, or maybe even asked first. It is not true that bitcoin are empty numbers without value because you earn it, and you can encash or spend it. There are countries who also started to legalize bitcoin. Why amd how did you even landed on this bitcoin forum if you don't believe in its value?
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