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Topic: ◈◈Bitcredit ◈◈ Migrating to UniQredit◈◈ - page 69. (Read 284545 times)

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501

What would be rationale behind that...? I mean from a technical PoV? Having 50K is all wee and fine, but the reason i used > rather than >= was at that time i assumed that one would first spin up a BN then get at least one payment to prove they are an active BN then start mining. However users can get around that by simply sending 50000.001.

How can we resolve this ?

if they send 50000.001 they cannot start a BN but can mine. (for a BN to be started it's needed a fixed 50000 transaction)
If they send 50000 they can start a BN but cannot mine until they receive a payment.
If they have more BN's and just clear the BN wallet and send all coins received to another wallet, there is a possibility that they cannot mine because they are left only with 50000 BCR transaction.

For me, does not seems alright ...

Right, thus we find the conflict. However, do we make provisions in the code for this , or should we leave this to the users' discretion? Indeed we have to have clear policy and support for various setups and options, but do the benefits of coding a solution outweigh the costs in terms of development/testing/deploy time and the additional computing required ? remember we now check for balances and consecutive keys. Already the client suffers slow downs , would the additional cost of computing be worthwhile, or should we leave it to users to understand that emptying a BN means wait for another payment before mining? In general users emptying a BN use coin control perhaos we can just add a note in the client that warns users of this ?

Hehehe, I am changing my approach to development/problem solving based on what I am learning through books and practical  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250

What would be rationale behind that...? I mean from a technical PoV? Having 50K is all wee and fine, but the reason i used > rather than >= was at that time i assumed that one would first spin up a BN then get at least one payment to prove they are an active BN then start mining. However users can get around that by simply sending 50000.001.

How can we resolve this ?

if they send 50000.001 they cannot start a BN but can mine. (for a BN to be started it's needed a fixed 50000 transaction)
If they send 50000 they can start a BN but cannot mine until they receive a payment.
If they have more BN's and just clear the BN wallet and send all coins received to another wallet, there is a possibility that they cannot mine because they are left only with 50000 BCR transaction.

For me, does not seems right ...
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501

What would be rationale behind that...? I mean from a technical PoV? Having 50K is all wee and fine, but the reason i used > rather than >= was at that time i assumed that one would first spin up a BN then get at least one payment to prove they are an active BN then start mining. However users can get around that by simply sending 50000.001.

How can we resolve this ?
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
@bitcreditscc

On a -reindex, the balances.dat and miners.dat are deleteted and reconstructed ?
Could you verify ?

For now you need to manually delete them, i'll add code for automatic deletion on new dev branch later. a lot of these new items need refinement.

Ok, thanks!

I just added it to the Master branch, it should delete the files if you start with the re-index flag.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
@bitcreditscc

On a -reindex, the balances.dat and miners.dat are deleteted and reconstructed ?
Could you verify ?

For now you need to manually delete them, i'll add code for automatic deletion on new dev branch later. a lot of these new items need refinement.

Ok, thanks!
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
@bitcreditscc

On a -reindex, the balances.dat and miners.dat are deleteted and reconstructed ?
Could you verify ?

For now you need to manually delete them, i'll add code for automatic deletion on new dev branch later. a lot of these new items need refinement.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
@bitcreditscc

On a -reindex, the balances.dat and miners.dat are deleteted and reconstructed ?
Could you verify ?
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
looks rather interesting, although what are the devs doing with the premine?

Glad you think so, yes, please take the time to read.

premine = premine
millions of coins are a risk.

no swaps occured so far?
question what will be an issue: rate?
if hxx would swap, people would want about +2.5milloin coins, i guess you would offer 60000..

and i took some time reading, got a feeling that this is not working.
but good idea.

my solution= burn the coins
price will only get better then.

It's funny how people always look to me on that issue, yet they claim to have read the thread. The coins are in escrow, and will only be released by community consensus. And right now the vast majority of the regulars don't really much care about those coins because we have no immediate solution for them. If you want to tackle the issue then fine, but instead of directing your enquiries to me, ask everyone else since this decision lies in their hands.

We now have a voting platform, one that can be used once there are visible options. All i do is give you the tools, it's up to the rest to use them.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
looks rather interesting, although what are the devs doing with the premine?

Glad you think so, yes, please take the time to read.

premine = premine
millions of coins are a risk.

no swaps occured so far?
question what will be an issue: rate?
if hxx would swap, people would want about +2.5milloin coins, i guess you would offer 60000..

and i took some time reading, got a feeling that this is not working.
but good idea.

my solution= burn the coins
price will only get better then.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
to me, is correct

Edit: on "setgenerate true" his closing the wallet

Ok good start, can you try debugging(at least find the offending line? ) I'm mobile, will take an hour before i'm sitting at a pc again. Meanwhile , what do you think is a fair, sustainable  limit ? 1/20 blocks, 1/10 or 1/40?

To have +50% of network mining range:-

@ 1/10 - 6* 50000 BCR + mining power  (300K BCR)
@ 1/20 - 11* 50000 BCR + mining power (550K BCR)
@ 1/40 - 21* 50000 BCR + mining power (1.05M BCR)
@ 1/100 - 51* 50000 BCR + mining power (2.55M BCR)

The higher the limit, the higher the expense of trying to control the network, but also the higher level of cooperative mining required. The higher limits apart from making it difficult to control the network, also make it harder for miners to push the diff too high as you'd need a huge investment to be able to mine enough consecutive blocks to push the diff out of reach of other miners. And i doubt anyone is about to potentially spend on trying to tear us down @ this point, further along the way, i'd hope that market pressure caused by such buying would make these costs prohibitive.

@ 1/20 - 11* 50000 BCR + mining power (550K BCR) for me seems OK

Could this be made dynamic?

eg. 1 / ( BN count ) or 1 / ( BN count * 0.8 ) to give 20% leeway?

I appreciate that it's not only BNs mining now, but anyone with >50k BCR, but just a thought; maybe in future a count of miningkeys could be kept and used also, or maybe mining will be made BN-only in future versions.

Yes, eventually, everything in a block will be dynamic, but right now i'm still 1) learning and 2) proving that it works. I am still figuring out ways to make operation simple and allow easy entry/exit of participants. one thing i need to study in depth is OP_RETURN, as that holds the key to BN only mining. However tbh , i think that the way things are headed may end up being a better solution, miners can easily come in and leave as they please anonymously (so long as they have 50K+)

by the time we support assets and contracts all that wll most definitely be dynamic. Even daily emissions will become reliant on analysis of demand and supply. Economies are fluid things and hardcoding is not at all ideal, but i do it for now just so i can prove it works and so i have a working model to view and ruminate on. For example,
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
Why i cant see generated 8,4 BCR in transaction list? Only 6 BCR

check the address you are mining to.
Overnight i got 2x 6bcr and 1x 8.4bcr,

Per the announce, reward is 18 coins per block where 40% (7.2 coins?) goes to the banknode, and the rest to mining, I think this needs to be changed or my math is broken.
consider removing the mining code and pools info from the announce page too..

Yeah, that will definitely need to be updated. The exact reasoning is compound but let me raise the main points.

1) We want transactions to be put in blocks, and have a regular block interval
2) We don't want miners competing and sinking huge amounts of money that are better used to back BCR
3) We want BN owners to keep their BNs online, but at the same time we don't want to take to much away from the miner
4) We need to maintain the emissions plan as close to the original as possible but keeping it all lucrative for users/service providers at all levels.
5) To facilitate new and more incoming ways to earn credits of the chain, we may need to switch to %

The overall effect is that ~ 45K is produced on a daily basis, with 2/3 going to the payouts and then 1/3 of the remainder goes to BNs, the rest is now divided between miners and grants. A BN owner has double the motivation to have their node online and mining as well to maximize their profits. So in essence a serious BN owner can take the 6 and add the 8.4 ==14.4/18.
Blah i typed up some numbers based on a 10,000 sat price. looks like the bids would need to be 3 btc daily, not unreasonable. but im sure everyone is aware what the economic outlook would be. my question is grants. what are grants for? is that the banknode reward?
Daily:
30000bcr for bid process payouts on superblock
15000bcr for network participants broken up into:
     6bcr per block, 5400 daily for active banknode
     8.4bcr per block, 7560 daily for mining
     1.8bcr per block, 1620 daily for ?
     1.8bcr per block, 1620 daily for ?
(excuse me in advance if its actually 6per block for mining, and 8.4 per block for banknode)

side note: FYI I mined a block and was the payout banknode, i guess with so few miners and banknodes this will happen but i thought it was odd. I have 4 connections and my wallet shows 30 Banknodes.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/bcr/tx.dws?f1d7a3d8126eb67066bfa7622f66794b068d8083d91173be13291a1e5a5a6cd2.htm
Quote
0   Not yet redeemed   6BSfT8ZVTkq1CNhuwYoLsfthRjQ4Z4ft9H   8.4 BCR
1   Not yet redeemed   5qoFUCqPUE4pyjus6U6jD6ba4oHR6NZ7c7   1.8 BCR
2   Not yet redeemed   6133GZGV2XRnS53DkLSWrK661TsQMqnewL   1.8 BCR
3   Not yet redeemed   6BSfT8ZVTkq1CNhuwYoLsfthRjQ4Z4ft9H   6.0 BCR

also also, bittrex has not updated yet. I know you're tying up loose ends but things seem decent, im sure theres some people waiting to set up nodes and others waiting to dump after having funds locked for 2 weeks+ What are we waiting on for critical development before we call the rest casual enhancements.


i am still hesitant to call this a wrap, i want to see 210500 then i will be sure what to do. The main idea being that after this string of updates, we can wait a month while i work in the background, then we update again. There is still a ton of work to be done, it's scary. the identical payments go to bank and reserves, their intended uses are plenty but eventually are used as a SDR account for BNs, for now they are used to tip devs and others for assistance. It's inevitable that at some point you'll mine and get a BN payment as the systems are disconnected, i will add it to the list, that mining addy can't be the same as bn winner.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
to me, is correct

Edit: on "setgenerate true" his closing the wallet

Ok good start, can you try debugging(at least find the offending line? ) I'm mobile, will take an hour before i'm sitting at a pc again. Meanwhile , what do you think is a fair, sustainable  limit ? 1/20 blocks, 1/10 or 1/40?

To have +50% of network mining range:-

@ 1/10 - 6* 50000 BCR + mining power  (300K BCR)
@ 1/20 - 11* 50000 BCR + mining power (550K BCR)
@ 1/40 - 21* 50000 BCR + mining power (1.05M BCR)
@ 1/100 - 51* 50000 BCR + mining power (2.55M BCR)

The higher the limit, the higher the expense of trying to control the network, but also the higher level of cooperative mining required. The higher limits apart from making it difficult to control the network, also make it harder for miners to push the diff too high as you'd need a huge investment to be able to mine enough consecutive blocks to push the diff out of reach of other miners. And i doubt anyone is about to potentially spend on trying to tear us down @ this point, further along the way, i'd hope that market pressure caused by such buying would make these costs prohibitive.

@ 1/20 - 11* 50000 BCR + mining power (550K BCR) for me seems OK

Could this be made dynamic?

eg. 1 / ( BN count ) or 1 / ( BN count * 0.8 ) to give 20% leeway?

I appreciate that it's not only BNs mining now, but anyone with >50k BCR, but just a thought; maybe in future a count of miningkeys could be kept and used also, or maybe mining will be made BN-only in future versions.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1008
Forget-about-it
Why i cant see generated 8,4 BCR in transaction list? Only 6 BCR

check the address you are mining to.
Overnight i got 2x 6bcr and 1x 8.4bcr,

Per the announce, reward is 18 coins per block where 40% (7.2 coins?) goes to the banknode, and the rest to mining, I think this needs to be changed or my math is broken.
consider removing the mining code and pools info from the announce page too..

Yeah, that will definitely need to be updated. The exact reasoning is compound but let me raise the main points.

1) We want transactions to be put in blocks, and have a regular block interval
2) We don't want miners competing and sinking huge amounts of money that are better used to back BCR
3) We want BN owners to keep their BNs online, but at the same time we don't want to take to much away from the miner
4) We need to maintain the emissions plan as close to the original as possible but keeping it all lucrative for users/service providers at all levels.
5) To facilitate new and more incoming ways to earn credits of the chain, we may need to switch to %

The overall effect is that ~ 45K is produced on a daily basis, with 2/3 going to the payouts and then 1/3 of the remainder goes to BNs, the rest is now divided between miners and grants. A BN owner has double the motivation to have their node online and mining as well to maximize their profits. So in essence a serious BN owner can take the 6 and add the 8.4 ==14.4/18.
Blah i typed up some numbers based on a 10,000 sat price. looks like the bids would need to be 3 btc daily, not unreasonable. but im sure everyone is aware what the economic outlook would be. my question is grants. what are grants for? is that the banknode reward?
Daily:
30000bcr for bid process payouts on superblock
15000bcr for network participants broken up into:
     6bcr per block, 5400 daily for active banknode
     8.4bcr per block, 7560 daily for mining
     1.8bcr per block, 1620 daily for ?
     1.8bcr per block, 1620 daily for ?
(excuse me in advance if its actually 6per block for mining, and 8.4 per block for banknode)

side note: FYI I mined a block and was the payout banknode, i guess with so few miners and banknodes this will happen but i thought it was odd. I have 4 connections and my wallet shows 30 Banknodes.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/bcr/tx.dws?f1d7a3d8126eb67066bfa7622f66794b068d8083d91173be13291a1e5a5a6cd2.htm
Quote
0   Not yet redeemed   6BSfT8ZVTkq1CNhuwYoLsfthRjQ4Z4ft9H   8.4 BCR
1   Not yet redeemed   5qoFUCqPUE4pyjus6U6jD6ba4oHR6NZ7c7   1.8 BCR
2   Not yet redeemed   6133GZGV2XRnS53DkLSWrK661TsQMqnewL   1.8 BCR
3   Not yet redeemed   6BSfT8ZVTkq1CNhuwYoLsfthRjQ4Z4ft9H   6.0 BCR

also also, bittrex has not updated yet. I know you're tying up loose ends but things seem decent, im sure theres some people waiting to set up nodes and others waiting to dump after having funds locked for 2 weeks+ What are we waiting on for critical development before we call the rest casual enhancements.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
Why i cant see generated 8,4 BCR in transaction list? Only 6 BCR

check the address you are mining to.
Overnight i got 2x 6bcr and 1x 8.4bcr,

Per the announce, reward is 18 coins per block where 40% (7.2 coins?) goes to the banknode, and the rest to mining, I think this needs to be changed or my math is broken.
consider removing the mining code and pools info from the announce page too..

Yeah, that will definitely need to be updated. The exact reasoning is compound but let me raise the main points.

1) We want transactions to be put in blocks, and have a regular block interval
2) We don't want miners competing and sinking huge amounts of money that are better used to back BCR
3) We want BN owners to keep their BNs online, but at the same time we don't want to take to much away from the miner
4) We need to maintain the emissions plan as close to the original as possible but keeping it all lucrative for users/service providers at all levels.
5) To facilitate new and more incoming ways to earn credits of the chain, we may need to switch to %

The overall effect is that ~ 45K is produced on a daily basis, with 2/3 going to the payouts and then 1/3 of the remainder goes to BNs, the rest is now divided between miners and grants. A BN owner has double the motivation to have their node online and mining as well to maximize their profits. So in essence a serious BN owner can take the 6 and add the 8.4 ==14.4/18.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1008
Forget-about-it
Why i cant see generated 8,4 BCR in transaction list? Only 6 BCR

check the address you are mining to.
Overnight i got 2x 6bcr and 1x 8.4bcr,

Per the announce, reward is 18 coins per block where 40% (7.2 coins?) goes to the banknode, and the rest to mining, I think this needs to be changed or my math is broken.
consider removing the mining code and pools info from the announce page too..
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
Why i cant see generated 8,4 BCR in transaction list? Only 6 BCR

check the address you are mining to.
hero member
Activity: 819
Merit: 502
Why i cant see generated 8,4 BCR in transaction list? Only 6 BCR
full member
Activity: 431
Merit: 105
guys this node always synced at highest block.s get in now.

210211 right now 62.194.60.156
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
a better idea would be a multipool that mined other coins and traded them for bcr...

Anyone is welcome to set such a thing up but personally I'd prefer BCR devs to be sticking to the core goals, one of which happens to be  minimising the senseless waste of PoW.

Which it seems bitcreditscc has pretty much achieved:

getmininginfo
{
"blocks" : 210203,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"difficulty" : 0.00000005,
"errors" : "",
"genproclimit" : 1,
"networkhashps" : 0,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false,
"chain" : "main",
"generate" : true,
"hashespermin" : 4
}

Should probably convert that one to a float. Smiley
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