Topic: bitfloor needs your help! - page 5. (Read 177467 times)

Since in the U.S. all debts can be repaid with USDs, the BTC debt is at the BTC/USD value from back in September when the incident occurred.  BitFloor is actually making good progress on repaying the $210K USD (wild guess from memory) that was owed.    For anyone hoping to receive the number of bitcoins on "hold", um ... ya.  Since those 24K BTC are now worth over $2 million, about the only hope for that size of repayment would be if BitFloor were to score somehow like through an acquisition or something like that.

...

Where is Nolo when you need him?   

What if later on there's a countersuit against whoever brought this suit, to try to recover lost potential repayments, and the person who brought this suit is not protected by any LLC, resulting in the remaining people who did not want the initial suit getting repaid from this initial suer's personal financial holdings? Could that happen?

Well, that's exactly what I meant.  If Bitfloor was started as an LLC, then creditors aren't going to get jack diddly in a lawsuit, and Roman would just shrug it off since it wouldn't affect him directly.  If Bitfloor is NOT an LLC, then Roman's assets (whatever those may be) are at stake, and if nothing else, creditors looking for revenge would get the satisfaction of justice being served.

For me personally, I'd just like whatever option gets me the most of my money back, and I seriously doubt it'll come through a lawsuit.  But, I'd be willing to sell my debt for 0.1 BTC / BTC owed to whomever is interested, because I don't think we'll ever see that much in payback.  If that person wants to take my debt on a lawsuit with them, then all power to 'em.

Clarification.  An LLC (or incorporation) doesn't protect the company.  It provides liability protection for the owners.  The reality is that like most Bitcoin based companies Bitfloor doesn't have any "real" (tangible) assets.  You can't get blood from a stone.  Unlike a company which has warehouses, inventory, office equipment, etc which can be liquidiated Bitfloor assets would be limited to the brand (which would be destroyed in a bankruptcy), and the code plus any operating capital.  Bitfloor has paid out excess operating capital on a quarterly basis so I doubt you are getting more there.

The reality is a lawsuit is in nobody best interest.  Between court costs, legal fees (including Bitfloor's legal fees which will deplete operating capital) even if one got a judgement for the full amount it simply means Bitfloor would be forced into bankruptcy and creditors would be lucky to get 5 cents on the dollar.  The liquidated value of Bitfloor (as opposed to operating value) is very low.

For those ganshing at the teeth for a lawsuit here is a practical excercise.

1) Estimate the cash on hand (both BTC & USD) that bitfloor has
2) Estimate what the assets (code base, customer lists) of bitfloor could be sold for in liquidation (note most assets liquidate for 10% to 30% of face value in BK).
3) Add 1 + 2 together and subtract bitfloor estimated legal fees.

3 is the total liquidation value of bitfloor.  Divide this by the current amount owed (in USD) and that is % each creditor could expect to receive in liquidation.  Now subtract legal fees.

That I agree with. Even the Google+ account (their announcement board) hasn't been updated in months. I'd like to see something from Roman, even if just to let us know that he's still alive  Even better would be some statements as to the state of the business, and maybe replies to any changes in the Bitcoin ecosphere, such as the effects of the recent price spike on repayments, or any statements in response to the FinCEN crap.

I don't see how a court would view Bitcoins any differently than any other debt.  They would peg it to USD value for certain (potentially retroactively to the value at the date/time of the theft), and only make a judgement in USD, but it doesn't matter if someone owes me Bitcoins or they owe me bananas - it is still something of value that they are indebted to me for.

Bitfloor might also be protected by an LLC or something too, in which case, a lawsuit wouldn't matter.

Or make sure anyone owed a govt currency is paid.. and the rest who are owed bitcoin? well that is just a made up internet token and just
never pay it. walk away and never come back.

Sure someone might sue you but I doubt it would last very long in court once the details come out that the only thing lost was some "fake
internet tokens".

I am not dissing bitcoin. I am just saying it is the most likely path for this to play out.

I am just upset at the lack of communication and payouts.  He used to be so active here, now he says nothing.  He doesn't indicate a regular period of when we can expect payouts.  He doesn't show calculations of how much the site has made in revenue vs the latest payment.  Heck, he didn't even pay out anything the last few months until today.

I can sympathize with his position. He'll likely never be able to pay back the entire BTC balance, so every hour he spends conducting activities for bitfloor, he's essentially working for free.  And that will likely never change.  That would be discouraging as hell.  But it still doesn't change what happened.  He needs to be in communication of some sort, or at the very least, give regular monthly payments.

Ooooooh, I see. You are just gambling on the idea that Bitfloor actually stole the money themselves, thus totally fucking up their reputation and business, while planning to continue to keep running their business instead of just running with the money (huh?) being completely open and public about who they are, how they screwed up, and how much they owe while trying to repay all the money from their business profits (wtf?), and actually still in fact have all those bitcoins stashed somewhere, while simultaneously being bankrupt (omgwtf!), while at the same time not even bothering to type "Bitfloor police report" into Google.

Yay derp derp derp.

Citation needed for that theft.

Where is the police report?

Bitfloor didn't "seize" your money, there was no money to seize. It was stolen, remember. All Bitfloor did is say, "I screwed up, and I owe you this much money. I don't have ANY money now, but I will keep what I still owe you on the books, and pay it back as best I can whenever I get any money."

I think the most a lawsuit can accomplish is to force Bitfloor to acknowledge that they owe you money, put the debt they owe you on their books, and pay it back as best as they can whenever they get any money. Which is what they are doing already, anyway. At worst, you can just shut the business down completely, in which case, please buy all of the rest of US who are depending on him to repay us, FIRST.

Are you high?

He is bankrupt.  He owes over $2M in BTC and does not have the funds.  In order to continue operating he has seized those funds from all depositors of BTC on his site.

So in the end, you're just a delusional ass who wants attention. Got it.

Did he seize your money or is he bankrupt? Make up your mind.

Bitfloor is not a bank, and your solution is to waste a lot of time and money with the goal to make it harder for him to make people whole. Ask Bitcoinica holders how many payments they have gotten since the last hack.

If you disagree: you are not thinking clearly.

I don't know, honestly.  There is a serious principle at stake, and Bitcoin is getting to the point where stands need to be made on ethical grounds or the system will collapse, and the bubble pointers will shout I told you so.

I offered at 30 cents on the dollar right after the "theft".  This was at a time pirate debt was trading at 0.50.  There were no takers.  People preferred Pirate's debt to Roman's. 

Since Roman has never taken any input from us, or even responded to the many viable suggestions of how he could resolve the debt, I find the whole 'Bitfloor needs your help' plea to be repulsive.  Bitfloor seized my money.

And by the way; You are all welcome for the 1% payback I forced.

Buy me out as well..!

What can make you satisfied?

If you find it acceptable for operators of exchanges to seize your money then that is good for you.

I don't find it acceptable.  And Bitfloor is bankrupt.  There are enough bankrupt banks operating in the fiat world.  Bitcoin doesn't need any.

If you disagree:  Buy me out.