Topic: BitForce SC - Pre order delay - page 5. (Read 9561 times)
All the logic and reason in the world has never won an argument with greed.
i like this idea ALOT better...
pre-orders should be a "Deposit" feature of say.... 25%-50% of the actual price... and when your product is ready to Ship, then you must pay the other 50%-75% of the fee.
it just doesnt make sense this time around with the shipping problems & delays you've had to dump 100% on a 3 month Pre-Order wait as is....
and the lottery shipping is Terrible... actually worst idea i've heard for shipping out Thousand+ dollar pre-order items that people have reserved in FULL.
That's the ideal situation, but given that people are crawling over each other to be first in line, I don't see why they would.
i like this idea ALOT better...
pre-orders should be a "Deposit" feature of say.... 25%-50% of the actual price... and when your product is ready to Ship, then you must pay the other 50%-75% of the fee.
it just doesnt make sense this time around with the shipping problems & delays you've had to dump 100% on a 3 month Pre-Order wait as is....
and the lottery shipping is Terrible... actually worst idea i've heard for shipping out Thousand+ dollar pre-order items that people have reserved in FULL.
I just posted this in the other thread, but it seems more relevant here -
Quote
It looks like mini-rig purchasers are still screwed the most, unless they get priority for upgrading. Based on the the order list thread some people are scheduled to receive their mini-rig in August. 2 months later a handful of jalapenos will equal the hashing power and then the mini-rig owner will be forced to upgrade (shelling out another $15k) or lose out entirely. If they do decide to upgrade and end up in some order lottery it's really gonna hurt. Seems like punishment for early customers who put their faith/$ in BFL.
Wait... a shipping lottery? Is this a fucking joke?
This is going to be entertaining to watch people wait even longer for their products! How professional of you BFL.
This is going to be entertaining to watch people wait even longer for their products! How professional of you BFL.
Well that's nothing new. I think there's always going to be room left for critical and fantastical speculation.
Something doesn't add up here. There are currently over 100 BFL singles still waiting to be delivered in the WAIT list.. and your already taking pre-orders for the SC? Your way over 4-6 weeks on your delivery times.. yet you slap your customers in the face with a random lotto?
And now you decide that Bitcoin is the only payment your going to take for pre-orders? No way for buyer protection?
There is a post about someone wanting a refund that they paid with bitcoin but you refused it?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bfl-refused-to-issue-refund-because-it-was-paid-with-bitcoin-via-bitpay-88903
Is this the point where you take a bunch of pre-order bitcoin and disappear with everyones money? The biggest bitcoin con ever?
Something stinks in the bitcoin community..
And now you decide that Bitcoin is the only payment your going to take for pre-orders? No way for buyer protection?
There is a post about someone wanting a refund that they paid with bitcoin but you refused it?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bfl-refused-to-issue-refund-because-it-was-paid-with-bitcoin-via-bitpay-88903
Is this the point where you take a bunch of pre-order bitcoin and disappear with everyones money? The biggest bitcoin con ever?
Something stinks in the bitcoin community..
not digging lottery part
People are seriously thinking of sending funds through an irreversible method to people who won't even give their names?
Now I understand how it is that you can train sheep to line up and wait to be sheared.
There are only 2 scenarios here.
1. BFL is able to deliver a functional product in sufficient volumes to recover the cost of design and masks and the network hashrate quickly hits several hundred TH/s.
- existing miners lose, current BFL buyers lose, future BFL buyers lose, BFL wins
or
2. Their wafer builds don't work, require expensive respins, don't yield well, don't sort with any decent clock rates, etc.
- existing miners continue on, anyone that touches BFL loses
Now I understand how it is that you can train sheep to line up and wait to be sheared.
There are only 2 scenarios here.
1. BFL is able to deliver a functional product in sufficient volumes to recover the cost of design and masks and the network hashrate quickly hits several hundred TH/s.
- existing miners lose, current BFL buyers lose, future BFL buyers lose, BFL wins
or
2. Their wafer builds don't work, require expensive respins, don't yield well, don't sort with any decent clock rates, etc.
- existing miners continue on, anyone that touches BFL loses
Also worth pointing out for anyone interested in participating tomorrow, orders will be taken only via Bit-Pay initially. This is a special promotion with Bit-Pay to promote their BTC merchant account service and may give existing miners a bit of an upper hand in first wave delivery. (alternate payment methods will be added within a few days).
Bit-Pay (Tony) deserves it ,it's a nice bitcoin serviceone idea:
What about to prefer send BitForce SC to different location and places in geographically? I know will be costs a little bit more than expected (VAT,IVA,GST,etc) but think about hardware decentralization.
thx
i like the sound of that. limited orders, i mean. no sense in the first to pre order being able to lock up all available production for weeks or whatever.
How about you don't take anyone's money until you actually have a product to ship?
Then you can limit the number per order with like a 72hr wait between orders(if anyone wants to make multiple orders, fine, stagger them)
Kind of like we already see when any new "hot" device hits the shelves.
Then you can limit the number per order with like a 72hr wait between orders(if anyone wants to make multiple orders, fine, stagger them)
Kind of like we already see when any new "hot" device hits the shelves.
We've been flooded with emails echoing some of the same suggestions here on the forum regarding the best way to determine order priority. I'm writing now in case any of you had been staying up waiting for the order form posting tonight. We're going to sleep on it and post tomorrow, but at the moment we're leaning towards a system that satisfies the two most significant arguments which are first come first serve & the lottery style distribution.
The way we're proposing it would work is that the orders are taken and tagged in priority order. When product is ready on any given day (let's say 40 units) half of them would go to the order priority list while the remainder 20 would go to randomly picked selections from the daily ship lottery.
Also worth pointing out for anyone interested in participating tomorrow, orders will be taken only via Bit-Pay initially. This is a special promotion with Bit-Pay to promote their BTC merchant account service and may give existing miners a bit of an upper hand in first wave delivery. (alternate payment methods will be added within a few days).
Regards,
BFL
The way we're proposing it would work is that the orders are taken and tagged in priority order. When product is ready on any given day (let's say 40 units) half of them would go to the order priority list while the remainder 20 would go to randomly picked selections from the daily ship lottery.
Also worth pointing out for anyone interested in participating tomorrow, orders will be taken only via Bit-Pay initially. This is a special promotion with Bit-Pay to promote their BTC merchant account service and may give existing miners a bit of an upper hand in first wave delivery. (alternate payment methods will be added within a few days).
Regards,
BFL
Another idea that actually makes sense and seems more fair to the customer, is to put those ahead of line that have waited more than the upper limit of 6 weeks for BFL to deliver past purchased product. The order terms for Singles on BFL's website states 4-6 weeks and notes it could be faster (not longer). Probably a good way to recover that lost customer sentiment.
+1
We've been flooded with emails echoing some of the same suggestions here on the forum regarding the best way to determine order priority. I'm writing now in case any of you had been staying up waiting for the order form posting tonight. We're going to sleep on it and post tomorrow, but at the moment we're leaning towards a system that satisfies the two most significant arguments which are first come first serve & the lottery style distribution.
The way we're proposing it would work is that the orders are taken and tagged in priority order. When product is ready on any given day (let's say 40 units) half of them would go to the order priority list while the remainder 20 would go to randomly picked selections from the daily ship lottery.
Also worth pointing out for anyone interested in participating tomorrow, orders will be taken only via Bit-Pay initially. This is a special promotion with Bit-Pay to promote their BTC merchant account service and may give existing miners a bit of an upper hand in first wave delivery. (alternate payment methods will be added within a few days).
Regards,
BFL
The way we're proposing it would work is that the orders are taken and tagged in priority order. When product is ready on any given day (let's say 40 units) half of them would go to the order priority list while the remainder 20 would go to randomly picked selections from the daily ship lottery.
Also worth pointing out for anyone interested in participating tomorrow, orders will be taken only via Bit-Pay initially. This is a special promotion with Bit-Pay to promote their BTC merchant account service and may give existing miners a bit of an upper hand in first wave delivery. (alternate payment methods will be added within a few days).
Regards,
BFL
Another idea that actually makes sense and seems more fair to the customer, is to put those ahead of line that have waited more than the upper limit of 6 weeks for BFL to deliver past purchased product. The order terms for Singles on BFL's website states 4-6 weeks and notes it could be faster (not longer). Probably a good way to recover that lost customer sentiment.
Lottery style is actually one of the worst propositions for your buyers....
You want them to take a gamble with a $30.000 piece of hardware
Makes NO sense !
I'd rather go to Vegas and put it on RED.... better chance of making any money with it, then compete with 100's of Jalapeno buyers
or are you doing separate lotteries for the different products ?
So 1 for the Jalapenos, 1 for the singles and 1 for the rigs ?
else your rig buyers will be crowded out by the Jalapeno buyers.... and you can't prioritise them, because then you wouldn't do a real lottery.....
but that would negate what you are trying to achieve....
This proposal needs some more thought....
TBH I think you are trying to rush things here.... there are NO other known ASIC developers out there, so take your time to decide how you are going to handle things, else it will all end up in a big mess with a lot of p*ssed off customers...
I still say:
open the pre-order possibility, keep it running for a couple of weeks... close it... produce the ASIC that were ordered and then do 1 delivery run.... surely you can do bulk shipping and get everything out of the door within 24-48 hrs
That will give everyone a clear date as to when they get their ASICs
Say your delivery date is October 31st.... then you can open up the next batch of pre-orders early September with Delivery at Mid-Dec and so on
You want them to take a gamble with a $30.000 piece of hardware
Makes NO sense !
I'd rather go to Vegas and put it on RED.... better chance of making any money with it, then compete with 100's of Jalapeno buyers
or are you doing separate lotteries for the different products ?
So 1 for the Jalapenos, 1 for the singles and 1 for the rigs ?
else your rig buyers will be crowded out by the Jalapeno buyers.... and you can't prioritise them, because then you wouldn't do a real lottery.....
but that would negate what you are trying to achieve....
This proposal needs some more thought....
TBH I think you are trying to rush things here.... there are NO other known ASIC developers out there, so take your time to decide how you are going to handle things, else it will all end up in a big mess with a lot of p*ssed off customers...
I still say:
open the pre-order possibility, keep it running for a couple of weeks... close it... produce the ASIC that were ordered and then do 1 delivery run.... surely you can do bulk shipping and get everything out of the door within 24-48 hrs
That will give everyone a clear date as to when they get their ASICs
Say your delivery date is October 31st.... then you can open up the next batch of pre-orders early September with Delivery at Mid-Dec and so on
If they have Venture Capital funding, WHY do they need so much MORE money upfront for new orders ?
Shouldn't they be taking, perhaps 10% UP FRONT AT MOST ?
Why would anyone in their right mind send in 100% up to 6 months in advance ?
Shouldn't they be taking, perhaps 10% UP FRONT AT MOST ?
Why would anyone in their right mind send in 100% up to 6 months in advance ?
Let them all pay and get their hardware first. I wait untill they deliver. And no, I wont pay in BTC
If they have Venture Capital funding, WHY do they need so much MORE money upfront for new orders ?
Shouldn't they be taking, perhaps 10% UP FRONT AT MOST ?
Why would anyone in their right mind send in 100% up to 6 months in advance ?
Shouldn't they be taking, perhaps 10% UP FRONT AT MOST ?
Why would anyone in their right mind send in 100% up to 6 months in advance ?
BFL - what about those of us who have an existing order for regular singles, and want to switch it around to the new ones? Should I put in an order and just not pay for it? Or...?
That's my currrent situation. I was thinking of bailing out and getting my refund since they have failed to deliver on time. However, I was reconsidering to give them a little more time. It would be better to at least mine a couple months with the hardware instead of sitting on stagnant cash. If the hardware isn't delivered soon, the refund option will be most palatable. Maybe, just buy bitcoins instead of ASIC hardware if it becomes more apparent that they will have this deluge of orders ahead of everyone else - might very well be more profitable as the block reward size halving approaches or passes.
Why don't you just put in an order for an SC Single with a trade in? It's pretty safe to assume that you would have received you're FPGA Single a while before the SC Single is ready to ship. And at that time, you can ship your FPGA Single in for the trade in.
So if you think of it that way, why would anyone want to purchase a SC Single outright right now? Just place an order for an FPGA Single and pay for a trade in order for an SC Single. Your total cost is still just the cost of an SC Single, but you should get your FPGA Single in 4-6 weeks.
And you can mine while you wait for the SC Single to be ready.
I have 4 singles on order. I'd like to change them to 2 SC singles and pay the extra $200.
BFL - what about those of us who have an existing order for regular singles, and want to switch it around to the new ones? Should I put in an order and just not pay for it? Or...?
That's my currrent situation. I was thinking of bailing out and getting my refund since they have failed to deliver on time. However, I was reconsidering to give them a little more time. It would be better to at least mine a couple months with the hardware instead of sitting on stagnant cash. If the hardware isn't delivered soon, the refund option will be most palatable. Maybe, just buy bitcoins instead of ASIC hardware if it becomes more apparent that they will have this deluge of orders ahead of everyone else - might very well be more profitable as the block reward size halving approaches or passes.
Why don't you just put in an order for an SC Single with a trade in? It's pretty safe to assume that you would have received you're FPGA Single a while before the SC Single is ready to ship. And at that time, you can ship your FPGA Single in for the trade in.
So if you think of it that way, why would anyone want to purchase a SC Single outright right now? Just place an order for an FPGA Single and pay for a trade in order for an SC Single. Your total cost is still just the cost of an SC Single, but you should get your FPGA Single in 4-6 weeks.
And you can mine while you wait for the SC Single to be ready.You can't just trade them in for SC singles. That and the added wait. Also, when did they start shipping singles in 4-6 weeks? I'm on day 82 and have not even received a shipping notification..
The people who have had their money tied up for 80+ days already and want to upgrade should be first. A lottery is a terrible idea.
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