bitHopper: Python Pool Hopper Proxy - page 133.

gnaget

full member

Activity: 154

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Quote from: Clipse on July 28, 2011, 07:23:02 PM

Ive only noticed the high stales (false submits?) for bitclockers, so I highly doubt its the hopper at fault since the whole lot of other sites would have had similar instances.

I've suspected this is the issues causing the higher than normal stale rate across the board. I'm getting 2-4% stales on every site, and I've noticed that the vast majority come when the proxy switches pools. I think it is more pronounced for bitclockers because of his anti-hopping tactics, which I assume are to blame for the connection issues I was complaining about earlier. So, when I would lag out, move away then move back, the shares being submitted were probably for the last pool

Clipse

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Quote from: c00w on July 28, 2011, 07:10:00 PM

Huh. We shouldn't be cross submitting shares. However if our connections lag out we leave your pool. And then come back when it delags. So giving us bad connections causes a lot of wounded thrashing.

Cross submitting shares shouldn't happen though... I'll check.

As always though using a proper algorithm would be nice instead of messing with the hoppers.

Ive only noticed the high stales (false submits?) for bitclockers, so I highly doubt its the hopper at fault since the whole lot of other sites would have had similar instances.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: Sukrim on July 28, 2011, 07:08:01 PM

Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 06:54:17 PM

But when a massive amount of clients are greedily bouncing back and forth between servers and dog-piling on pools when a block is found; something had to be done.

The right thing to do is not some stupid API delay which will be obsolete soonish anyways - just change to a real and fair payout system!

I assume they still want to give "legit" users the chance of excessive pay during quick rounds but not for hopping users.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

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Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 06:54:17 PM

Don't forget, you're hurting the very people who make it possible for the pools good luck, profitability and the ability for you to hop in the first place.

Nope, YOU do hurt them by setting up a hoppable pool.

joulesbeef

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

moOo

so backburn you have any thoughts as a pool operator to our other convo? about jumping on pools that have a very long block to help them finish it, instead of jumping to our back up pools when no one has found a block in a while?

that and figuring out our share problem... would that help reduce the hate on your site?

bb

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 05:40:03 PM

We will stay proportional, but we will not encourage pool hopping.

This makes no sense.

c00w

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Huh. We shouldn't be cross submitting shares. However if our connections lag out we leave your pool. And then come back when it delags. So giving us bad connections causes a lot of wounded thrashing.

Cross submitting shares shouldn't happen though... I'll check.

As always though using a proper algorithm would be nice instead of messing with the hoppers.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 06:54:17 PM

But when a massive amount of clients are greedily bouncing back and forth between servers and dog-piling on pools when a block is found; something had to be done.

The right thing to do is not some stupid API delay which will be obsolete soonish anyways - just change to a real and fair payout system!

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: anty on July 28, 2011, 06:48:48 PM

Good for you. I didn't intend to attack you, you know?

Yeh sorry I seem to have had a brain fart posting there in all defensive mode Wink

For some reason I thought more users would have setup a seperate method of pulling API's but I guess I assumed the unassumable Grin

backburn

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

★Trash&Burn [TBC/TXB]★

Quote from: Clipse on July 28, 2011, 05:45:26 PM

Im a loyal hopper, does that count? Wink

Anyhow I dont see how you could delay/alter any of the public non-user specific api feed without also delaying it for loyal users as you seem to mention here.

It went from client header based detection to just delayed for everyone, just like Deepbit does.

This way it is an incentive to mine contiguously, as you will miss out on really short blocks and get less time to mine on moderately short blocks. This reduces the "hopping bonus" somewhat.

The improper configuration/coding of many hopping clients led to this decision. Prior to recent issues, we did not care about hopping. But when a massive amount of clients are greedily bouncing back and forth between servers and dog-piling on pools when a block is found; something had to be done. I cant idly sit back when hoppers flood in during a fresh block affecting or miners. I guess you could say, you are a victim of your own success.

Don't forget, you're hurting the very people who make it possible for the pools good luck, profitability and the ability for you to hop in the first place.

anty

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

Quote from: Clipse on July 28, 2011, 06:17:05 PM

Quote from: anty on July 28, 2011, 06:02:07 PM

Quote from: Clipse on July 28, 2011, 05:45:26 PM

Anyhow I dont see how you could delay/alter any of the public non-user specific api feed without also delaying it for loyal users as you seem to mention here.

Sure he can, just like he tampers with the connection of your worker he can delay the stats for the same IP.

And you think I pull stats from the same ip that I connect from ? I have a completely seperate setup for where I pull server stats from mainly so it wont hammer it nor appear all botlike.

Good for you. I didn't intend to attack you, you know? In your case he can't to anything to delay the stats only for you, but you already know that.

On an unrelated matter: I need a hopperden invite, too.

Oh and c00w could you comment on this please:

Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 05:40:03 PM

I'm also seeing lots of unknown-work stales coming from users of your proxy. In fact 90% of your users "stales" are unknown-work. Proxy is hopping prematurely and submitting work from other pools? Not good.

I thought this was solved a long time ago?

muyoso

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: hawks5999 on July 28, 2011, 06:31:04 PM

Quote from: muyoso on July 28, 2011, 06:25:38 PM

Unless someone has a better idea how to work around this ridiculousness.

There's this option:

Nah, they were a very profitable pool until they started messing around. Also, that would be like giving up.

And also, the fact that they are sabotaging their users as "revenge" for violating a non posted and non agreed to rule is frankly ridiculous.

hawks5999

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: muyoso on July 28, 2011, 06:25:38 PM

Unless someone has a better idea how to work around this ridiculousness.

There's this option:

muyoso

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 05:40:03 PM

FYI Hoppers:

Confirmed/habitual hoppers are flagged as such and are QoS'd dead last, you're also last for LPs. Our API used to feed bad data to habitual hoppers but this has changed to simply delaying statistics for new blocks to keep the advantage in our loyal miners hands. We will stay proportional, but we will not encourage pool hopping. Go hop somewhere else.

I'm also seeing lots of unknown-work stales coming from users of your proxy. In fact 90% of your users "stales" are unknown-work. Proxy is hopping prematurely and submitting work from other pools? Not good.

Well, looks like I will be cycling the router and getting a new IP and setting up a new account at bitclockers. Unless someone has a better idea how to work around this ridiculousness.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: anty on July 28, 2011, 06:02:07 PM

Quote from: Clipse on July 28, 2011, 05:45:26 PM

Anyhow I dont see how you could delay/alter any of the public non-user specific api feed without also delaying it for loyal users as you seem to mention here.

Sure he can, just like he tampers with the connection of your worker he can delay the stats for the same IP.

And you think I pull stats from the same ip that I connect from ? I have a completely seperate setup for where I pull server stats from mainly so it wont hammer it nor appear all botlike.

anty

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

Quote from: Clipse on July 28, 2011, 05:45:26 PM

Anyhow I dont see how you could delay/alter any of the public non-user specific api feed without also delaying it for loyal users as you seem to mention here.

Sure he can, just like he tampers with the connection of your worker he can delay the stats for the same IP.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: backburn on July 28, 2011, 05:40:03 PM

FYI Hoppers:

Confirmed/habitual hoppers are flagged as such and are QoS'd dead last, you're also last for LPs. Our API used to feed bad data to habitual hoppers but this has changed to simply delaying statistics for new blocks to keep the advantage in our loyal miners hands. We will stay proportional, but we will not encourage pool hopping. Go hop somewhere else.

I'm also seeing lots of unknown-work stales coming from users of your proxy. In fact 90% of your users "stales" are unknown-work. Proxy is hopping prematurely and submitting work from other pools? Not good.

Im a loyal hopper, does that count? Wink

Anyhow I dont see how you could delay/alter any of the public non-user specific api feed without also delaying it for loyal users as you seem to mention here.

backburn

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

★Trash&Burn [TBC/TXB]★

FYI Hoppers:

Confirmed/habitual hoppers are flagged as such and are QoS'd dead last, you're also last for LPs. Our API used to feed bad data to habitual hoppers but this has changed to simply delaying statistics for new blocks to keep the advantage in our loyal miners hands. We will stay proportional, but we will not encourage pool hopping. Go hop somewhere else.

I'm also seeing lots of unknown-work stales coming from users of your proxy. In fact 90% of your users "stales" are unknown-work. Proxy is hopping prematurely and submitting work from other pools? Not good.

hawks5999

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: gnaget on July 28, 2011, 05:02:30 PM

Exactly, a little altruism here and there never hurt anybody,

May I introduce you to Ayn Rand, she might disagree with you on that point.

Quote from: gnaget on July 28, 2011, 05:02:30 PM

I guarantee you they will all appreciate it.

I think you don't quite understand the word "guarantee". Many miners hate hoppers on 'principle' and getting a little help won't change that view. Go ahead ask the triplemining forum if they'd like some help from the hoppers. I would wager (but not guarantee) that you'll get a response similar to "We don't need their help!"

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: gnaget on July 28, 2011, 05:12:25 PM

If you spend your life only worrying about squeezing every ounce of profit, you'll end up like this guy:

I assume everyone gets the reference

With a face like that, youd be such a hit with the ladies Cheesy

Topic: bitHopper: Python Pool Hopper Proxy - page 133. (Read 355816 times)