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Topic: Bitmark - page 144. (Read 622228 times)

sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 02:54:36 PM
The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player?

This is also my concern, we should recognise that exchanges and mining pools will often be the first point of contact people have with Bitmark, in a way they are part of our public face.

If they are incompetent or a bad player it will reflect badly on the efforts of all of us, the first place people will come to complain is here.

It is responsible for us to consider our future users best interests, whilst remaining as neutral as possible.

Due Diligence.

We should also remember that mining pools and exchanges are also Bitmark adopters, to be in communication with them and consider their needs will help. We may need to change some code, or ensure that checkpoints are created regularly, or other steps.

I was considering reaching out to a pool operator as well. Right now most of the network is mining on one pool, which is dangerous.

But I had another thought instead. What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole. I'm not a pool operator and honestly I don't even know what it would take to set one up, but maybe there is a member already here who knows how to do this?

the best idea I have heard all day.  +10
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 504
July 16, 2014, 02:52:31 PM
The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player?

This is also my concern, we should recognise that exchanges and mining pools will often be the first point of contact people have with Bitmark, in a way they are part of our public face.

If they are incompetent or a bad player it will reflect badly on the efforts of all of us, the first place people will come to complain is here.

It is responsible for us to consider our future users best interests, whilst remaining as neutral as possible.

Due Diligence.

We should also remember that mining pools and exchanges are also Bitmark adopters, to be in communication with them and consider their needs will help. We may need to change some code, or ensure that checkpoints are created regularly, or other steps.

I was considering reaching out to a pool operator as well. Right now most of the network is mining on one pool, which is dangerous.

But I had another thought instead. What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole. I'm not a pool operator and honestly I don't even know what it would take to set one up, but maybe there is a member already here who knows how to do this?
sr. member
Activity: 339
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 02:51:34 PM
Difficult to contribute as AFK and on phone...

Just did some numbers on last 24 hours and cost of the BTM earned equated to 454 Sat / BTM
 
That's loss of direct BTC that would have been earned plus fairly low power costs.

Take from that what you will...
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Bitmark Developer
July 16, 2014, 02:43:51 PM
The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player?

This is also my concern, we should recognise that exchanges and mining pools will often be the first point of contact people have with Bitmark, in a way they are part of our public face.

If they are incompetent or a bad player it will reflect badly on the efforts of all of us, the first place people will come to complain is here.

It is responsible for us to consider our future users best interests, whilst remaining as neutral as possible.

Due Diligence.

We should also remember that mining pools and exchanges are also Bitmark adopters, to be in communication with them and consider their needs will help. We may need to change some code, or ensure that checkpoints are created regularly, or other steps.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 504
July 16, 2014, 02:24:55 PM
I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Should we be inviting the input of reasonable exchange owners, or should we wait until the come across bitmark?
Notice I say input here to discuss any merits of bitmark, not to discuss adding it to an exchange.

I have reached out to the Poloniex owner about joining us here on this thread. Not about getting the coin on the exchange but about participating in these discussions on the coin.

I'm starting to see there is a strong divide between those who want it on an exchange and those who don't. I think input from an actual exchange operator could be useful, not just now, but in development of the coin down the road.

The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player? Coinmarket.io was notorious for accepting new coins just so they could drum up new registrations and take advantage of more people. Those are the sort of places we need to avoid.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 02:12:32 PM
I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

Personally I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Let me ask this question...How many people that have BTM so far has went to someone and asked them to accept BTM in a trade other then a currency trade, like "would you accept 10 btm to babysit my kids? Or , I will trade you 100BTM for 2 dozen eggs? Something to this effect?

It is a good question, three services that I know of
1. ethought accepts BTM for the use of his mining service (1%)
2. Allow has accepted BTM payment for his graphic design services
3. All of my own work and future work done for the bitmark foundation

Now let me ask you a question, after reading the How to Order section of your website, if I were to email you with an order for one "Natural Beef Jerky Slab Original 3.25oz Bags", and offered to pay with BTM, would you accept the order?

If so what price would you specify today, and how would you calculate it?
How do you calculate the price for the other currencies you accept?

If not, why not, what would it take for you to accept BTM as a payment option?


I have been waiting for someone to do just that  Smiley  yes I would accept btm, amount would be negotiated at the time this would happen

since all other coins that I accept  all already on an exchange by the time someone places an order, of course I use the dollar value conversion , at that time.  For example, i recently had an order places requesting the use of drk. The dollar drk/btc value was 0.0115btc per darkcoin. I have set my dollar value at a contact to $10.50, so that time each bag of jerky at the current btc value would have been 0.01667(btc was right at 630 at this time. 10.5/630=0.01667. so to get the drk need per bag would be 0.0115/.01667 which gives 1.449.  This is what was invoiced per bag, and this is what my customer paid for each bag of jerky ordered.  nice and clean.

Now since there is not establish trade value with btm, the whole process from my perspective as a merchant would be made on negotiation, once that is done of course I would use this as a basis from future pricing.

Good old school 1 on 1 haggling Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Bitmark Developer
July 16, 2014, 02:09:35 PM
I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

Personally I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Let me ask this question...How many people that have BTM so far has went to someone and asked them to accept BTM in a trade other then a currency trade, like "would you accept 10 btm to babysit my kids? Or , I will trade you 100BTM for 2 dozen eggs? Something to this effect?

It is a good question, three services that I know of
1. ethought accepts BTM for the use of his mining service (1%)
2. Allow has accepted BTM payment for his graphic design services
3. All of my own work and future work done for the bitmark foundation

Now let me ask you a question, after reading the How to Order section of your website, if I were to email you with an order for one "Natural Beef Jerky Slab Original 3.25oz Bags", and offered to pay with BTM, would you accept the order?

If so what price would you specify today, and how would you calculate it?
How do you calculate the price for the other currencies you accept?

If not, why not, what would it take for you to accept BTM as a payment option?

I would guess your own answers will be fairly indicative of the answers of any potential business adopters, perhaps with some bias on your own part since you are involved in bitmark.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 02:00:09 PM
I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Should we be inviting the input of reasonable exchange owners, or should we wait until the come across bitmark?
Notice I say input here to discuss any merits of bitmark, not to discuss adding it to an exchange.

It is my opinion that we should wait until the exchange comes to us. My rationale of course has already been stated.  Even for their input, I would say let them find out about bitmark  organically, even if this take months.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 01:51:07 PM
I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

Personally I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Let me ask this question...How many people that have BTM so far has went to someone and asked them to accept BTM in a trade other then a currency trade, like "would you accept 10 btm to babysit my kids? Or , I will trade you 100BTM for 2 dozen eggs? Something to this effect?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Bitmark Developer
July 16, 2014, 01:41:19 PM
I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Should we be inviting the input of reasonable exchange owners, or should we wait until the come across bitmark?
Notice I say input here to discuss any merits of bitmark, not to discuss adding it to an exchange.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 01:35:49 PM
Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.
To be honest I have mixed feelings. In one side I don't want an exchange now, because I'm here to hold longtime. I am not going to let go of my bitmarks atleast for a minimum of 6 months.
But on the other side the bitmark community consists of very few members at the moment. It is known and supported by very few members. I know that early adopters of a cryptocoin should have the advantage but there is also an idea of fair distribution. I am new to crypto and I am also new to mining. So many people don't know how to mine or even rent one. I don't know why but I think this coin has a great future. The more the coin is distributed, the more it is advertised and the more exposure it gets. Greater number of supporters and FUDers Angry, the more famous a coin becomes. More people will come who will develop third party apps and maybe also lend you a hand in the future. In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange. By the way even if we add a request for adding Bitmark to an exchange, I think it'll take a minimum of 20-30 days for it to get added.

Valid points, I respect them all. Your final point, that it will take time to be added is good.

Perhaps your suggestion answers our questions, if we agree that Poloniex is a reasonable exchange, then it is fair for us as a community to say 'if you want an exchange for Bitmark then we recommend it be this one'.

Whether Bitmark is added or not, and when it is added, then rests with those who would find it useful to be there.

I am okay with this approach, it feels balanced, and resolves the issue.

I feel it is important to hear what deepcoreotc feels about the above.

On a different topic
Code:
[18:36]  if all people were just hoarding them and not giving them [Bitcoin] away as freely as people used to we might have never reached this point
[18:37] people like to make fun of the guy who bought the pizza, but that was the first thing that i remember circulating around the internet among regular people
[18:37] the white paper was around for a while
[18:37] but the pizza was something that actually made it real
[18:44] it was certainly a positive landmark which enabled people to think of the digital currency as having real world value and utility. I was very pleased on that day.
[18:45] Sadly Bitmark can have no similar landmark, we can perhaps create our own.
[18:45] That is a good question, what are some milestones for the project?
[18:45] hmm, i'll have to think on that


Here is my stance on the above about adoption Let us not again misinterpret adoption with speculation.  So here we must define adoption.

I would define adoption as the usages of a currency, ie bitmark, in the exchange of a good and or service.  Traders on an exchanges are not transferring tangible(physical goods, or service).  So early trading on an exchange has little reliance to adoption based on the definition here in stated.  

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

Now that many exchanges are moving away from the voting scheme, I foresee that many exchanges will start to focus more on initial community support then attempting to purchase a spot on the exchange.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay. Smiley

define natural adding process

To add an ALT to an exchange do you need to submit it? Always?

No. Not all coins must be submitted to get on an exchange. If the exchange ops determine that a coin has trade value and that others would also agree with this , then the exchange ops themselves would seek to add said coin.  There are many element and matrix used by exchanges to make such determinations.
.  

Ok, with "natural adding process" i mean that Bitmark should not be submitted to exchanges, but if they add it, it's ok. Smiley
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
July 16, 2014, 12:59:35 PM
In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange.

Can you explain your reasoning for this? An exchange doesn't automatically ensure adoption.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 12:58:59 PM
I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay. Smiley

define natural adding process

To add an ALT to an exchange do you need to submit it? Always?

No. Not all coins must be submitted to get on an exchange. If the exchange ops determine that a coin has trade value and that others would also agree with this , then the exchange ops themselves would seek to add said coin.  There are many element and matrix used by exchanges to make such determinations.
.  
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Bitmark Developer
July 16, 2014, 12:54:27 PM
Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.
To be honest I have mixed feelings. In one side I don't want an exchange now, because I'm here to hold longtime. I am not going to let go of my bitmarks atleast for a minimum of 6 months.
But on the other side the bitmark community consists of very few members at the moment. It is known and supported by very few members. I know that early adopters of a cryptocoin should have the advantage but there is also an idea of fair distribution. I am new to crypto and I am also new to mining. So many people don't know how to mine or even rent one. I don't know why but I think this coin has a great future. The more the coin is distributed, the more it is advertised and the more exposure it gets. Greater number of supporters and FUDers Angry, the more famous a coin becomes. More people will come who will develop third party apps and maybe also lend you a hand in the future. In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange. By the way even if we add a request for adding Bitmark to an exchange, I think it'll take a minimum of 20-30 days for it to get added.

Valid points, I respect them all. Your final point, that it will take time to be added is good to remember.

Perhaps your suggestion answers our questions, if we agree that Poloniex is a reasonable exchange, then it is fair for us as a community to say 'if you want an exchange for Bitmark then we recommend it be this one'.

Whether Bitmark is added or not, and when it is added, then rests with those who would find it useful to be there.

I am okay with this approach, it feels balanced, and resolves the issue.

I feel it is important to hear what deepcoreotc feels about the above.

On a different topic
Code:
[18:36]  if all people were just hoarding them and not giving them [Bitcoin] away as freely as people used to we might have never reached this point
[18:37] people like to make fun of the guy who bought the pizza, but that was the first thing that i remember circulating around the internet among regular people
[18:37] the white paper was around for a while
[18:37] but the pizza was something that actually made it real
[18:44] it was certainly a positive landmark which enabled people to think of the digital currency as having real world value and utility. I was very pleased on that day.
[18:45] Sadly Bitmark can have no similar landmark, we can perhaps create our own.
[18:45] That is a good question, what are some milestones for the project?
[18:45] hmm, i'll have to think on that
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2014, 12:46:04 PM
I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay. Smiley

define natural adding process

To add an ALT to an exchange do you need to submit it? Always?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 12:44:47 PM
Thank you.

Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.
To be honest I have mixed feelings. In one side I don't want an exchange now, because I'm here to hold longtime. I am not going to let go of my bitmarks atleast for a minimum of 6 months.
But on the other side the bitmark community consists of very few members at the moment. It is known and supported by very few members. I know that early adopters of a cryptocoin should have the advantage but there is also an idea of fair distribution. I am new to crypto and I am also new to mining. So many people don't know how to mine or even rent one. I don't know why but I think this coin has a great future. The more the coin is distributed, the more it is advertised and the more exposure it gets. Greater number of supporters and FUDers Angry, the more famous a coin becomes. More people will come who will develop third party apps and maybe also lend you a hand in the future. In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange. By the way even if we add a request for adding Bitmark to an exchange, I think it'll take a minimum of 20-30 days for it to get added.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 16, 2014, 12:32:08 PM
I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay. Smiley

define natural adding process
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2014, 12:25:55 PM
I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay. Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Bitmark Developer
July 16, 2014, 12:12:00 PM
Thank you.

Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.
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