Topic: Bitminter bitcoin mining pool - shutdown mining 2020-07-01 website 2021-06-01 - page 47. (Read 325004 times)

Yup- i know what you mean about Slush and their ramp up. Kano's ramp up is way better as you never lose the shares you submitted. At first it feels like you are getting underpaid but once you hit the 5ND, you are rolling along nicely and get sustained payouts for the earlier shares..ie: shift over shift for several shifts. If you happen to leave kano, you will still get payouts for awhile.

In many ways, bitminter is as good a pool or better than kano. Organofcorti's stats show it as being better much of the time. However, with the shorter period for the shares remaining valid for payout, it scares off miners who test it and see that happening. So it will be very hard for Bitminter to attract a ton of miners the same way that kano has over the past 3 months.
Remember these 2 pools were about the same sizer at one time. I coudln't decide which one to go with when i left the "big 3". I decided it based on which one gave me payouts for all my shares. I think that's why many chose kano over bitminter.
Then, as kano grew quickly, it would find blocks more frequently. This decreased the 5ND from 4+ days back in December to about 2 days now. In other words, the ramp up time to when you reached max payouts for all your hashing power deceased a lot. Also, with finding more blocks each day, the variance in payouts decreased a lot. Overall these 3 factors (shorter ramp up to payment for all shares, no shares lost, and lower variance) are giving kano and a strong edge over anyone else. Heck you can rent hash for a day and if the pool doesn't find a block, you will still get something for your submitted shares even a few days later. If you did that on Slush or Bitminter, you could lose all those shares after 2 days if a block isn't found. So kano is lower risk. Correct me if I'm seeing this the wrong way.

My point is that I see a good future for Bitminter...but it won't happen as the pool can't grow. Why? too many miners get a "bad taste in their mouth" during their testing period when they see the pool not find a block for 2 days or so and their shares become worthless after 10 shifts. So they don't stay here. Now in these times, all pools are having "hard luck". So it's not unreasonable for a smaller ppol to go a few days with no block finds. That's pretty much understood by anyone whose been mining for a long time. The problem is when you lose shares you submitted  after 10 shifts (~2 days) and the pool takes longer than that  to find a block. The longer it takes the more shares you lose. For me that hurts way too much.

I think that's how most miners see it too... and they just don't day anything verbally. They make their statement by not staying at Bitminer.

TLDR:  

In short, Bitminter has a world of potential and could become a significant player with at least 10% of the total network hash rate. However, it's reward system scares miners away before any potential growth can be attained. People don't like submitting work, then losing shares that are older than 10 shifts especially during a time when it's harder for any pool to find blocks. No-I'm not a psychologist. I'm just old and have seen how little it takes to upset people. Not getting paid for work is one of those that pushes peoples' buttons faster than anything else.

I get the term ramp up in terms of slush pool only.  You hold a score there so you have to wait for it to build up then hold that score till you hit a block.  If you drop the score before a block it will quickly descend and you will lose your shares.  Slush is only good as a primary for that reason.  For failover you should add a secondary server of your primary pool. Your gonna lose hashrate on a load balance if your not talking failover IMO.   If your want a pool to make coin for the short time a pool goes down you should pick antpool or f2pool.  Where else would you be guaranteed fractional pennies  for the few minutes pools rarely ever go down? Like it matters.  If your putting "ramp up" in your analysis your probably switching lanes and overthinking it.  Been there.  The Doc is right though if you split up your hashrate you will most likely get the same coin.  Also...GUI has nothing to do with profitability and Bitminter has a pre perk fee you can activate for the fastest payout possible.  You even keep orphaned pay.  Worth it ? Oh hell yeah.  That report you linked is good analysis of the past, but won't tell the future.  You know whats important to me for profitability? My size in the pool.  Why ?  When the luck comes fast on a good day, I get more shares in between short blocks.  At least that's what I've experienced.  I'm not a dev though so somebody stop me if I'm wrong.

I don't like the term ramp-up. It seems to suggest that there is a punishment for part-time mining. That you don't get paid properly before you have mined several hours or days.

In reality there is no ramp-up. Each proof of work ("share") is paid the same way. An hour of mining is paid the same fair way as all other hours mined, regardless of whether you mined before that or not.

Sure if you mine an hour on this pool and an hour on that pool, or if you split your hashrate between multiple pools, then you will receive several smaller payouts instead of one big one. But the end result is the same.

Why are the details of which hours you got paid for, or how big each payout was, important at all? You got the same amount of coins in the end.

Thanks ATC.  I respect you too man.  Your the kind of miner I'm talking about. Update your firmware, give ample power, know when to reset.   Forget I said "big miners", lets say good miners.  Your never loosing shares.  Fact is your shares are only worth anything if they pull a block.  I like Kano pool for that very reason.  However I have "lost shares"  there.  How ? Watch the pool PH speed on your rewards page.  Its always higher than when the block is found.  I kept a steady 22TH through a dry spell.  Others bumped then pointed somewhere else.  Even though we were 24PH-27PH when we found blocks I took a 20 percent reward cut for a loss as the math was done at 30-32PH for my rewards. Its neat for rents, but I would loath it if I owned the 22TH.   While others did the pool no good what so ever and made a nice gain from little work at high speed. Smash and grab.  Not to mention I've had some 2-3 days dropping from 40TH-25TH with bad luck.  The first couple rewards were slightly larger, but in no way compensated me for bad luck.  I was never paid for more than 27TH.  Slow to rise.  Fast to fall.  Its a luck sir.  If your lucky just after you leave, yeah it can pay.  You left though, so a steady miner takes the cut.    Eased bad luck sting via community distro.  Sometimes it helps you, others not.  Just the luck of it.  If you keep a rig here you and leave it.  You'll probably make more money in a months time.  Your never loosing shares here or there.  Your shares only have the value of what they earn in the time frame based on luck.  I always turn mine from here, then I miss the luck.  Take a look at that report though its accurate.  If it would grow a bit it would come faster.  So jumpy miner like us won't switch to fast and lose out.  I'll still mine other places, but here there is the highest profit potential.  It just needs a couple PH more steady mining.   Plus the Doc says he can extend the time period if the pool grows, thus solving the problem of the length.  

PS  here=bitminter  there=Kano  These are the only 2 places worth mining if your under 200TH IMO

Well Aires and Crispy, we've chatted before and I respect both of you a lot.

Yes- if the pool were larger, then there were would be a higher chance that a block would be found most of the time within the 10 shift period. I had been toying with moving all my rigs (~22 THS) here. For me, I simply have a hard time coping with losing shares after the 10 shifts expire. I'm just a small miner- but I think this is also why many big miners won't stay here when they see that happen.

I'd be more inclined to move my hash power here if the shares didn't expire at all...but at least not for 20- 30 shifts. I can't recall how BTCGuild's PPLNS worked. However, I don't remember losing shares when I mined there.

I would love to see this pool at 7-8PH.  I see the best speeds from my miners here. The diff has increased significantly since the pool reached the 3-4PH mark.  I love the small pool reward, but bitminter needs to grow with the network a bit.  I think we should all seek big miners, convince them to point some miner here, and leave them for a month.  Rental boosting is great, but some networking for growth would yield better results.  Nicehash is cool for snagging shares, but you don't know anything about the rigs/miners. You could have 100 miners with old firmware logging on and off for 5TH.  It won't cost anything to talk some solid miners into pointing at least a few miners here and it would be a solid move for making some coin.

I have been doing a study on 3 pools Slush's, CKPool(kano.is) and Bitminter over the last 2 months. 

My number 1 rule over all is profitability with the most profitable pool being Bitminter of 3 pools studied. 

Slush's must be ruled out right away as a primary pool for profitability.  Granted, Slush's has the nicest Dashboard of them all with no exception.  With that said, I would always keep Slush's as the #2 on the miner GUI(control panel of the miner) because Slush's ramps up hasrate very quickly if the primary pool goes down.

The next 2 Pools - CKPool and Bitminter:

CKPool

Good: 
-pays out several times per day due to it's increasing in size
-very responsive pool moderators
-very knowledgeable other people in the pool that are willing to help you
-total fees for the pool are less than 1%

Bad:
-pool has to be reset every few days.  This may cause your miner to throw hash to your second position on the GUI and you may have to manually reboot your miner
-you have to use a second website to get critical information such as block notification, charting, low hash rates, or miner off-line
-ramp up to full payout is about 2 days but can only be realized after the fact when a block is found and the results show that you have attained full hashrate

Bitminter

Good: 
-payouts are the highest I have found on average over the last 2 months.
-responsive pool moderator
-very knowledgeable other people in the pool that are willing to help you
-unique dashboard

Bad:
-pay-outs may take days, although they are very lucrative
-ramp up to full payout is about 2 days
-the pool is not growing very quickly
-total fees for the pool are 1% plus you have to pay for features

Summary:  My main goal is profitability.  I have seen a 118% increase in profitability of Bitminter over CKPool on average over the last 2 months.  I have most of my miners hosted so, the responsiveness of the host may be an issue depending on the hour of day or day of the week to have a miner manually rebooted.  I must conclude that with the risk of miners loss in hashrate when the pool is reset and possible having to manually reboot the miner along with the profitably of Bitminter over CKPool----I have as of today brought all of my miners to Bitminter.  I am also renting hash and sending it to Bitminter.


Here is a profitability study over the last week, 4weeks, 26weeks and 52weeks: 
http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/search/label/weeklypoolstatistics


Let me know your thoughts.

Come on weve got to find a block soon my rental runs out tomorrow afternoon. *fingers crossed for a double whammy overnight*

Chucking my 2 pence worth in. I have had no problems with this pool ever. Aslong as you stick with it instead of jumping on and off you won't have a problem. I've found DrHaribo to be both professional and willing to help whenever and wherever he can.

The two most popular support requests:

1. There was a shift I didn't get paid for (ignoring well paid shifts and the bottom line)
2. I mined for 2 hours and didn't receive any pay yet (ignoring work-payout delay)

Both lead to miners leaving the pool, sometimes yelling at me for being a scammer and stealing their coins, in a few cases even refusing to listen when I explain how the payouts work.

The shift length is an attempt to balance between the two perceived issues. Note that neither is a real problem. But when miners perceive something to be an issue, then that in itself is a problem.

Currently 10 shifts take a little over 2 days. The shifts used to be twice as long, but going back to that would mean it would take over 4 days before you see how much some work was paid. I think that might be a little excessive. If we got the pool hashrate up we could comfortably increase the shift length though.

When a block is found the last 10 shifts get paid. Sometimes we find
blocks quickly and a shift gets paid many times. Sometimes it takes a
long time to find a block and some shifts don't get paid at all.

This evens out over time.

If you mine 24/7 you won't notice it. Having 1% of the hashrate gets you
1% of the mined coins. Which shifts you got paid through doesn't really
matter. If you get paid 0.1 BTC for work you did in the morning and 0
BTC for your work in the evening, that is essentially the same as
getting 0.05 BTC for the morning and 0.05 BTC for the evening. The end
result is the same, you got 0.1 BTC.

If you are a part time miner you will notice some variance. If you mine
one hour per day, you could get very lucky or very unlucky with the
payout. In the future I hope to increase the size of the shifts to even
this out more for part time miners. For now the shifts need to be short
so it doesn't take too long from you do some work until it is fully
paid. We can change this if we are able to increase our percentage of
the global hashrate in the future.

http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/search/label/weeklypoolstatistics

On organofcorti's blog, Bitminter looks like the best.

I put a couple rigs on here from time to time and have been happy. However, recently I found it disappointing when my shares were worth nothing.

http://prntscr.com/aaats7

Here's what the Reward System says:

 "When we create a new block you get a share of the income proportional to how much of the work in the last 10 completed shifts is yours. This reward system is known as PPLNS with shifts."

 It's good pool otherwise.

EDIT: I realize that the time since the last block was found is longer than usual. It was found by Fefox on 2016-02-29 01:20. However, losing submitted shares when there's an usually long block hurts. Especially as difficulty is so high and most pools are having longer blocks than usual right now. When miners are losing shares, that puts Bitminter at a disadvantage from a miner's perspective. Perhaps a new rewards system is required. For example: extend it from 10 shifts to 20 shifts??

EDIT 2: Another example where i got no reward for 4 shifts: http://prntscr.com/aab0ui

I'm in)
Let rock&roll&smokeit

That's what I've tried to do for this trial of renting. Spread it out to cover ten shifts (approximately 50hours) so I cover as many as possible at a better rate so I get a better percentage of the share. If this pays off I'll try a bigger rental for shorter time.

Glad I could help.
Just remember that your rentals need to cover at least 24 hours, if not more, as each shift is 1/10 of your work, and is approx 6 hours each at the current time.
Its better to rent smaller for more hours, than to send 1pt for 6 hours..
Ex.( 1 pth would be 33% aprrox of pool, but 33/10 when your rental runs out and you get all 0's for the remaning shifts would equal only 3.3% of the 25 btc reward = 0.825 btc.
I can run 150 th for 24 hours for around .5btc, and get all shifts around 4%, therefore 25 x 4 %  = 1 btc, and if we hit two in a 24 hour period, well that's 2 btc, a 150% profit.

Just making it easier to understand for everyone.  Your not competing against the User hash-rate roster, just the total pool hash-rate.

That is exactly what I wanted to confirm. Looks like I'll be doing a fixed one next time then. Keep getting emails saying the hashrate has decreased 

I have always rented Fixed at a slightly higher price.  Reason being is your order will go on pause if the price goes up on a standard order. Then after the price goes back down your miners will restart.  Here's the thing.  All of your miners dropping out near the end or in the beginning of a shift can dramatically decrease your return if its not fast enough to catch up work and get your regular shift work percentage.  I like to keep mine between 5-10% on all shifts, therefore guarantying a profit return, unless the block solve goes beyond 80%, but then again, if we hit 2 in a row after, its all good and 70% profit

Just my 2cents ....
 

Yes, I have rented and am hoping that one comes through very soon!  I heard the new block announcement sound effect go off about an hour ago...must have been a NMC.

Well I'm renting 10Th for a couple of days hopefully it will pay for itself in that time. It keeps dropping out though. Is it better to do standard and adjust the price to get it running again or have fixed at a slightly higher price?

Very Wise!