Topic: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 358. (Read 787066 times)
I think Black Arrow has provided more pricing detail than any other pre-order ASIC offer - he quoted several prices (depending on % paid in Sept/Oct or if using trade-ins by Oct 5th), and then promised to match-25% essentially in $/GH/s what the best Feb 24th off-the-shelf pricing of a comparable product to the Prospero is. He also implied he can't go below $0.5/GH/s. Now my guess is his company will be forced down some, but nobody can predict the future....and his promise tells me that we who trust him and pre-order will (if all works out) get a relatively great deal for our miners....and our ROI will be as good as any others (positive or negative) at that Feb 24th point in time. If the difficulty keeps rising at more than 60% per month, then ROI will be negative for us even at the $0.5/GH/s bankrupting level....and I'd assume the same for other ASICs products. However, I'm figuring in December the difficulty will taper off its rate of climb due to less energy efficient (W/GH/s) miners turning off their mining equipment due to cost of power. (At 100B difficulty, only systems more efficient than 0.3 W/GH/s at $0.1/KWhr can afford power to run. --ediited this last line from a guess after doing the calculation at the mining dashboard http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ .)
You cannot sell 1Gh/0.50$ not in February and not even at the end of next year.
Are you taking bets on that ?
The above quotes simplify to this for me: BlackArrow has promised his Prospero ASIC pre-orders (completely paid by Oct sometime) will be 25% cheaper than the market price of currently-shipping non-pre-orders
Correction: 25% cheaper than the market price of the orders that are shipped in February 2014, not today.
So If you sell the Prosperos in Febuary for 100$ all pre-order customers, which would get 25% discount (75$), will get the difference btw. there paid prices and 75$ in Hashpower. And you garantued that you will be cheaper then all other market competitors for each timeframe ... for example if Bitmine delivers conicraft for 1 GH / 0.50 $ in February ... you will sell the prosperos for under 50$?
Sorry, I might have some difficulties to understand your ... pricing model ... as it hasn't been written anything of that on the webpage ...
You cannot sell 1Gh/0.50$ not in February and not even at the end of next year. You cannot sell a product for a price which not covers manufacturing costs. As we keep saying there is a threshold where you cannot go lower. That threshold it is called cost of sales, overheads and operating loss.
Then lets take some other numbers ... 1 GH / 2$ ... 200$ for 100 GH ... from an other competitor ... scheduled and delivered in end of February ... If I got you right, you would then adapt your pricing to be better then your competitor ... less then 1 GH / 2$ ... and also pre-orders would profit from that ... right ..?
Let's make the statement and avoid numbers at all
You will see that it does not change the essence of the message. I will use your help.I will quote you:
"you would then adapt your pricing to be better then your competitor"
"and also pre-orders would profit from that"
You got it right. This is our statement.
What this statement means from the point of view of numbers:
1. 28nm costs are the same for everybody who makes 28nm.
2. a company needs to make profit in order to run further or it is called bankruptcy.
3. a company may choose to have very low profit margins, lower than other companies.
The 2014 Chinese New Year is January, 31st.
Will that interfere with your production/shipment schedule?
Will that interfere with your production/shipment schedule?
The foundry is not in China but the packaging is in Taiwan. We hope that Chinese New Year not be an issue. We'll check and get back with more data.
The 2014 Chinese New Year is January, 31st.
Will that interfere with your production/shipment schedule?
Will that interfere with your production/shipment schedule?
Your thoughts echo part of what I brought up earlier. Despite there being a discount, the Cointerra 2TH unit would recoup a couple hundred USD more than the BA 2TH unit, but you'd spend less on the BA unit. So proportionally-speaking you pay less but lose less with BA.
At that point, in my mind, I'd probably lean toward Cointerra because I know more about the individuals who make up the company, and they're based in the US (same as myself).
That's just my thoughts.
At that point, in my mind, I'd probably lean toward Cointerra because I know more about the individuals who make up the company, and they're based in the US (same as myself).
That's just my thoughts.
Blackarrow did you receive my email about the Lancelot trade-in, sent 2 days ago? Can you arrange the discount code before the 5th of october?
Please PM and let me know your email address or order number.
Blackarrow did you receive my email about the Lancelot trade-in, sent 2 days ago? Can you arrange the discount code before the 5th of october?
The above quotes simplify to this for me: BlackArrow has promised his Prospero ASIC pre-orders (completely paid by Oct sometime) will be 25% cheaper than the market price of currently-shipping non-pre-orders
Correction: 25% cheaper than the market price of the orders that are shipped in February 2014, not today.
So If you sell the Prosperos in Febuary for 100$ all pre-order customers, which would get 25% discount (75$), will get the difference btw. there paid prices and 75$ in Hashpower. And you garantued that you will be cheaper then all other market competitors for each timeframe ... for example if Bitmine delivers conicraft for 1 GH / 0.50 $ in February ... you will sell the prosperos for under 50$?
Sorry, I might have some difficulties to understand your ... pricing model ... as it hasn't been written anything of that on the webpage ...
You cannot sell 1Gh/0.50$ not in February and not even at the end of next year. You cannot sell a product for a price which not covers manufacturing costs. As we keep saying there is a threshold where you cannot go lower. That threshold it is called cost of sales, overheads and operating loss.
Then lets take some other numbers ... 1 GH / 2$ ... 200$ for 100 GH ... from an other competitor ... scheduled and delivered in end of February ... If I got you right, you would then adapt your pricing to be better then your competitor ... less then 1 GH / 2$ ... and also pre-orders would profit from that ... right ..?
Let's make the statement and avoid numbers at all
You will see that it does not change the essence of the message. I will use your help.I will quote you:
"you would then adapt your pricing to be better then your competitor"
"and also pre-orders would profit from that"
You got it right. This is our statement.
What this statement means from the point of view of numbers:
1. 28nm costs are the same for everybody who makes 28nm.
2. a company needs to make profit in order to run further or it is called bankruptcy.
3. a company may choose to have very low profit margins, lower than other companies.
The above quotes simplify to this for me: BlackArrow has promised his Prospero ASIC pre-orders (completely paid by Oct sometime) will be 25% cheaper than the market price of currently-shipping non-pre-orders
Correction: 25% cheaper than the market price of the orders that are shipped in February 2014, not today.
So If you sell the Prosperos in Febuary for 100$ all pre-order customers, which would get 25% discount (75$), will get the difference btw. there paid prices and 75$ in Hashpower. And you garantued that you will be cheaper then all other market competitors for each timeframe ... for example if Bitmine delivers conicraft for 1 GH / 0.50 $ in February ... you will sell the prosperos for under 50$?
Sorry, I might have some difficulties to understand your ... pricing model ... as it hasn't been written anything of that on the webpage ...
You cannot sell 1Gh/0.50$ not in February and not even at the end of next year. You cannot sell a product for a price which not covers manufacturing costs. As we keep saying there is a threshold where you cannot go lower. That threshold it is called cost of sales, overheads and operating loss.
Then lets take some other numbers ... 1 GH / 2$ ... 200$ for 100 GH ... from an other competitor ... scheduled and delivered in end of February ... If I got you right, you would then adapt your pricing to be better then your competitor ... less then 1 GH / 2$ ... and also pre-orders would profit from that ... right ..?
The above quotes simplify to this for me: BlackArrow has promised his Prospero ASIC pre-orders (completely paid by Oct sometime) will be 25% cheaper than the market price of currently-shipping non-pre-orders
Correction: 25% cheaper than the market price of the orders that are shipped in February 2014, not today.
So If you sell the Prosperos in Febuary for 100$ all pre-order customers, which would get 25% discount (75$), will get the difference btw. there paid prices and 75$ in Hashpower. And you garantued that you will be cheaper then all other market competitors for each timeframe ... for example if Bitmine delivers conicraft for 1 GH / 0.50 $ in February ... you will sell the prosperos for under 50$?
Sorry, I might have some difficulties to understand your ... pricing model ... as it hasn't been written anything of that on the webpage ...
You cannot sell 1Gh/0.50$ not in February and not even at the end of next year. You cannot sell a product for a price which not covers manufacturing costs. As we keep saying there is a threshold where you cannot go lower. That threshold it is called cost of sales, overheads and operating loss.
hi
i m repeating my questions you didn t answered
who s the fab?
i m repeating my questions you didn t answered
who s the fab?
We cannot make official announcement regarding who the fab is. We know who the fab is, we work with their libraries for their process node specifications but we are not allowed to say who it is until tape-out. What we suggest you to do is to see in the fabs VeriSilicon is working with. It is one of them.
We are bind by contracts and non-disclosure agreements with the companies we work with. Please understand that there are things that we are not allowed to disclose.
Thank you for your understanding.
It is a High Performance Flip Chip BGA. I noticed you have asked this in your previous message. I am sorry I did not see that one. I looked for it after you mention that this is a repeated question.
The above quotes simplify to this for me: BlackArrow has promised his Prospero ASIC pre-orders (completely paid by Oct sometime) will be 25% cheaper than the market price of currently-shipping non-pre-orders
Correction: 25% cheaper than the market price of the orders that are shipped in February 2014, not today.
So If you sell the Prosperos in Febuary for 100$ all pre-order customers, which would get 25% discount (75$), will get the difference btw. there paid prices and 75$ in Hashpower. And you garantued that you will be cheaper then all other market competitors for each timeframe ... for example if Bitmine delivers conicraft for 1 GH / 0.50 $ in February ... you will sell the prosperos for under 50$?
Sorry, I might have some difficulties to understand your ... pricing model ... as it hasn't been written anything of that on the webpage ...
If i order today - when will the units be shipped?
Still end 02/2014?
Still end 02/2014?
Yes, you will be in the first batch.
why don t you answer about the fab?
If i order today - when will the units be shipped?
Still end 02/2014?
Still end 02/2014?
Yes, you will be in the first batch.
But more less all the players in 28 nm has (in paper) similar performance.
I disagree. KNC Miner is promising 1.6W/ghash which is lower efficiency than Bitfury at 55nm.
The above quotes simplify to this for me: BlackArrow has promised his Prospero ASIC pre-orders (completely paid by Oct sometime) will be 25% cheaper than the market price of currently-shipping non-pre-orders
Correction: 25% cheaper than today's market price. We will do our best to keep the prices 25% less than the competition compared to the orders that are shipped in February 2014 as well, but we cannot guarantee 25% as they have the same manufacturing prices as we do. We can only guarantee that we'll sell cheaper compared to the prices from February 2014.
hi
i m repeating my questions you didn t answered
who s the fab?
i m repeating my questions you didn t answered
who s the fab?
If i order today - when will the units be shipped?
Still end 02/2014?
Still end 02/2014?
Just say no to preorders folks. Let the madness end already.
Becasue the " say no to drugs" campaign really worked didnt it? People will buy according to their interests. I know I am interested - But to each their own. You know what risks you take with a preorder, and you should plan accordingly.
I don't disagree with you brother. I'm just giving my $0.02 worth of advice. I don't expect to be leading a flock of followers to the golden horizon.
I believe in Capitalism, and people making mistakes are a necessary part of any market.
I think it's still ok to offer some advice occasionally, though
I wasnt attacking you, sorry if it came off that way. Capatalism works at its finest when all parties work from the same information, and so far the Black Arrow guys have been very upfront and straightforward with me in our discussions.
A non-preorder flock... you would kill Apple!
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