we can´t stop here! this is bat land.
Topic: Black Arrow is most likely a scam operation - page 7. (Read 14763 times)
From the desk of Bobsag3, a.k.a. Matt Carson, Black Arrow's first and #1 reseller for their miners.
I never ended up moving to another warehouse in Rolla, just the one. We went right from small warehouse in rolla > denver warehouse in one move, early Jan.
We paid for every month, and if your in contact with who you should be to verify that kind of info, they will verify it. So yes, your blowing smoke up peoples asses.
And with that im done on the subject. I think people have seen im more than up front compared to most here- but lets stay on topic about BA, or about actual minersource orders.
Timeline of Matt Carson's datacenter locations. Originally posted in Black Arrow's self-moderated thread, but quickly deleted for being...wait for it..off-topic (and that I was trolling, so they claim). Black Arrow has proof that Matt Carson can NOT be trusted, but continue to use him as their official reseller in the US. If I were to use Tom Williams, of mybitcoin.com, as my official reseller for some product, stating that people change, would I be able to sell many product, Alex Sovu, of cardreaderfactory.com? Me, the asshole, no think so, yet...
BUILDING #1: Purchased the building, awaiting infrastructure.
Thanks- Ill be moving to a custom made facility here in under 3 weeks.
BUILDING #2: Moving to a better facility here (still in Missouri) located 90 miles away.
Building acquired
I'd sample test say 1/10th of the boards for a few hours on testnet. That'd be my recommendation
Yeah I can do that. *might* be able to live stream, or atleast upload a ton of pictures.
I will be shipping from MO. Middle of the country, and if your anywhere close to me Im ok with local pickup.
And I just want to say guys - Barn has been working very hard behind the screens to bring this all together... this stuff is immensely complex.
Here we are, on November 18th, and Matt still has his datacenter in Missouri at the second facility:
This is why I went from garage > warehouse > bigger warehouse. Heat is nuts.
Yea, but do the thumbs have any tracking info? When you get the board delivery after a quick run though where are they coming from for you. I seem to expect California.
No idea on the thumbs- thats all Barn.
I will be shipping out from Central MO.
But yeah that is kind of silly. Im glad when I put my new facility together I decided to say fuck it and got all 240v
November 26th, edited on the 28th, Matt Carson is still in Missouri at the second facility: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3723600
No problem. Im having a 400A 240V pannel installed just for the 2kw+ miners that seem to be coming out.
On December 12, 2013, fresh back from China, Matt Carson posted the following... BTW, still located in Missiouri:
The new facility comes with me also having hired 6 more people to help out. I am currently training them right now.
On December 13, Matt Carson hired additional staff to work at his Missouri-based datacenter, to date not mentioning Denver even once.
I am working with them right now for me to help with their tickets, so we can get the response time much faster. I have hired additional staff that start work here in a few weeks, and I know they are working hard to improve their systems.
I cant speak on the refunds unfortunately, I am still discussing the options with them.
Four hours later, Matt mentions for the first the move to Denver, right after somebody ask about local pickup since he lives in KC. Did his new hires move to Denver with him?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/minersourcenet-miner-hosting-llc-cheap-and-secure-hosting-and-sales-288012
BUILDING #3:
Somewhere in Colorado, in some warehouse with 16-18 foot ceilings, ideally well-suited for bitcoin miners that love fiberglass dust sourced from the exposed insulation in the ceilings and walls, blown free from the constantly moving vortex of air due to the industrial-sized air conditioning unit(s). Whatever you do, don't open up that massive overhead door that's probably not well-sealed, otherwise you'll really have the dust a flying.
This has been the third time you're on record in stating that you only moved once. Care to try for a forth time?
~TMIBTCITW
I never ended up moving to another warehouse in Rolla, just the one. We went right from small warehouse in rolla > denver warehouse in one move, early Jan.
We paid for every month, and if your in contact with who you should be to verify that kind of info, they will verify it. So yes, your blowing smoke up peoples asses.
And with that im done on the subject. I think people have seen im more than up front compared to most here- but lets stay on topic about BA, or about actual minersource orders.
Timeline of Matt Carson's datacenter locations. Originally posted in Black Arrow's self-moderated thread, but quickly deleted for being...wait for it..off-topic (and that I was trolling, so they claim). Black Arrow has proof that Matt Carson can NOT be trusted, but continue to use him as their official reseller in the US. If I were to use Tom Williams, of mybitcoin.com, as my official reseller for some product, stating that people change, would I be able to sell many product, Alex Sovu, of cardreaderfactory.com? Me, the asshole, no think so, yet...
BUILDING #1: Purchased the building, awaiting infrastructure.
Building was purchased today!
All the wiring and infrastructure equipment arrives tomorrow-Wednesday. Over 400lb. Poor UPS man
All the wiring and infrastructure equipment arrives tomorrow-Wednesday. Over 400lb. Poor UPS man
Thanks- Ill be moving to a custom made facility here in under 3 weeks.
BUILDING #2: Moving to a better facility here (still in Missouri) located 90 miles away.
Major Update!
We will be moving to a much large, much better facility here by the end of the month. There may be a short down time (its only a 90mi drive) while being setup at the new facility, but we will not be turning anything off right up to the last minute.
We will be moving to a much large, much better facility here by the end of the month. There may be a short down time (its only a 90mi drive) while being setup at the new facility, but we will not be turning anything off right up to the last minute.
Major Update!
We will be moving to a much large, much better facility here by the end of the month. There may be a short down time (its only a 90mi drive) while being setup at the new facility, but we will not be turning anything off right up to the last minute.
We will be moving to a much large, much better facility here by the end of the month. There may be a short down time (its only a 90mi drive) while being setup at the new facility, but we will not be turning anything off right up to the last minute.
Building acquired
I cant answer on the software but I can on the shipping. Looks like the boards should be done here within 48 hours, and then will be dispatched after a small amount of testing to AUS, and me in the US. At least from me, all boards will then be tested again (Not sure how long... suggestions?) and then immediatly shipped out same day via UPS Next Day/2nd Day air [depending on location]. As soon as we know the boards are done, we can give concrete delivery.
I'd sample test say 1/10th of the boards for a few hours on testnet. That'd be my recommendation
Yeah I can do that. *might* be able to live stream, or atleast upload a ton of pictures.
I will be shipping from MO. Middle of the country, and if your anywhere close to me Im ok with local pickup
. And I just want to say guys - Barn has been working very hard behind the screens to bring this all together... this stuff is immensely complex.
Here we are, on November 18th, and Matt still has his datacenter in Missouri at the second facility:
This is why I went from garage > warehouse > bigger warehouse. Heat is nuts.
Shenzhen, China 11/26/2013 8:05 P.M. Departure Scan
Yea, but do the thumbs have any tracking info? When you get the board delivery after a quick run though where are they coming from for you. I seem to expect California.
I will be shipping out from Central MO.
Does anyone have any details regarding power consumption. The genesis block calculator says expected power usage per unit to be 2100 watts. I am afraid for me that's not going to work. To be honest I was expecting something that would work on a residential 120v circuit. They also do not offer any hosting yet unfortunately.
I got ya covered But yeah that is kind of silly. Im glad when I put my new facility together I decided to say fuck it and got all 240v
November 26th, edited on the 28th, Matt Carson is still in Missouri at the second facility: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3723600
No problem. Im having a 400A 240V pannel installed just for the 2kw+ miners that seem to be coming out.
On December 12, 2013, fresh back from China, Matt Carson posted the following... BTW, still located in Missiouri:
This makes no sense financially and if it's going to be hosted in a data center it should be using specialized GPU mining racks that can run more GPUs per motherboard/CPU. You really need open racks and to use PCI-E riser ribbons if you want to build a GPU mining rig, using a desktop computer case makes no sense especially because heat is a huge issue with scrypt mining. Also to be honest, scrypt mining is VERY finicky compared to SHA256 mining, you're talking about constant lockups and crashes if heat isn't perfectly controlled. The amount of time that's going to go into keeping everything running is going to be much higher than with bitcoins and given how the Bitfury towers already caused a ton of problems I'm not sure the coop has enough manpower to keep racks of scrypt miners up and running.
The new facility comes with me also having hired 6 more people to help out. I am currently training them right now.
On December 13, Matt Carson hired additional staff to work at his Missouri-based datacenter, to date not mentioning Denver even once.
I am working with them right now for me to help with their tickets, so we can get the response time much faster. I have hired additional staff that start work here in a few weeks, and I know they are working hard to improve their systems.
I cant speak on the refunds unfortunately, I am still discussing the options with them.
Four hours later, Matt mentions for the first the move to Denver, right after somebody ask about local pickup since he lives in KC. Did his new hires move to Denver with him?
We will offer local pickups- but we are moving to a massive new facility in CO, so pickups will have to be from there .
ALSO: I now have access to the BA ticket system, so if you need a response feel free to PM and I can at least check on the status for you.
.ALSO: I now have access to the BA ticket system, so if you need a response feel free to PM and I can at least check on the status for you.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/minersourcenet-miner-hosting-llc-cheap-and-secure-hosting-and-sales-288012
We are all moved into the new place, lots of updates and pictures to come!
BUILDING #3:
Somewhere in Colorado, in some warehouse with 16-18 foot ceilings, ideally well-suited for bitcoin miners that love fiberglass dust sourced from the exposed insulation in the ceilings and walls, blown free from the constantly moving vortex of air due to the industrial-sized air conditioning unit(s). Whatever you do, don't open up that massive overhead door that's probably not well-sealed, otherwise you'll really have the dust a flying.
This has been the third time you're on record in stating that you only moved once. Care to try for a forth time?
~TMIBTCITW
Has delivered bitcoin fpgas
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
To who? Where is the proof? I did saw some guys posting they received items delivered from Black Arrow, but they could be in cahoots with the scammers.
Delivered fpgas to many people.
Still delivering bitfury boards.
Contract with verisilicon was confirmed. So unless a large, established semiconductor company is in on the scam it doesn't make sense.
Reason for no pics is because case designs are not 100% complete as chips have not even begun tapeout. There are a bunch of pics of the factory with a bunch of the bitfury asics they sell.
private company =/= scam
I have purchased Xilinx Spartan 6 based FPGAs from them around eight or nine months ago. Was going to purchase a Prospero at one point but decided to go with a different vendor. Have no qualms with this company, even purchased a gen1 avalon controller from them.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list&page=2&sl=en
We can certainly do that. But what happens if the Bitcoin goes down by the time we can cash it out?
I also do not see the reasons to offer a discount for these transactions.
The way that we see it, our customers who have placed non-escrow pre-orders are our investors, hence it is our duty to do our best to maximize their revenues. They will receive discounts and price guarantees.
Escrow transactions where we cannot use the funds to pay the foundry and engineers, are just ... sales that require more of our investment.
Maybe, but unfortunately we do not have time to read all his posts. We have work to do for all our paying customers, and have no time to waste with a random jobless individual who's not even our customer.
We are selling hardware. We are not investment service.
For not being an investment service, they sure the hell aren't going outta their way to distant themselves from such.
BTW, the random jobless individual they're referring to and opted to not waste their time on is me.
The following is a post of mine that was deleted by Black Arrow, of which was quoted by a couple other bitcoiners, of which they, too, have been deleted, but I did post it elsewhere during the same timeframe.
Hardware supplier or investment service? You decide.
Maybe, but unfortunately we do not have time to read all his posts. We have work to do for all our paying customers, and have no time to waste with a random jobless individual who's not even our customer.
We are selling hardware. We are not investment service.
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/alex-berk-black-arrow-as-soon-as-14nm-is-available-well-release-a-new-asic-that-will-outperform-any-other-14nm-designs/
Is there another definition for investment that I'm not aware of for, in the traditional meaning, it sure does sound like you're offering an investment service? Then again, I'm just a broke dick troll living in my mommy's basement because I can't hold down a job.
Few reasons:
- Because we do not have ASICs
- Because ASICs are not available for everybody
- Because at the current prices of the ASICs we are just as performant.
- Far better ROI than any investment fund, bank, etc (100% in 4 months - with the current difficulty rise)
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list&page=2&sl=en
Instead of escrow, why not use multisignature? Its easy to do on blockchain.info:
https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrow
No risk of the escrow party running off with the money, losing his laptop or getting killed in a carcrash. You just need an independent third party to sign, and if all goes well, he doesnt have to do anything.
https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrow
No risk of the escrow party running off with the money, losing his laptop or getting killed in a carcrash. You just need an independent third party to sign, and if all goes well, he doesnt have to do anything.
We can certainly do that. But what happens if the Bitcoin goes down by the time we can cash it out?
I also do not see the reasons to offer a discount for these transactions.
The way that we see it, our customers who have placed non-escrow pre-orders are our investors, hence it is our duty to do our best to maximize their revenues. They will receive discounts and price guarantees.
Escrow transactions where we cannot use the funds to pay the foundry and engineers, are just ... sales that require more of our investment.
as much as i hated that guy, i don't think all his post should had been deleted.
Maybe, but unfortunately we do not have time to read all his posts. We have work to do for all our paying customers, and have no time to waste with a random jobless individual who's not even our customer.
Quote
sadly i will be seeking a refund to because i now dont believe my x1s will roi due this mayor delay and mtgox going down.honestly you guys could had done a beter job handleing this.
We are selling hardware. We are not investment service.
For not being an investment service, they sure the hell aren't going outta their way to distant themselves from such.
BTW, the random jobless individual they're referring to and opted to not waste their time on is me.
The following is a post of mine that was deleted by Black Arrow, of which was quoted by a couple other bitcoiners, of which they, too, have been deleted, but I did post it elsewhere during the same timeframe.
Hardware supplier or investment service? You decide.
as much as i hated that guy, i don't think all his post should had been deleted.
Maybe, but unfortunately we do not have time to read all his posts. We have work to do for all our paying customers, and have no time to waste with a random jobless individual who's not even our customer.
Quote
sadly i will be seeking a refund to because i now dont believe my x1s will roi due this mayor delay and mtgox going down.honestly you guys could had done a beter job handleing this.
We are selling hardware. We are not investment service.
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/alex-berk-black-arrow-as-soon-as-14nm-is-available-well-release-a-new-asic-that-will-outperform-any-other-14nm-designs/
Quote
After the recent launching of the Prospero Bitcoin mining machine and the ASIC “the Minion”, the company Black Arrow is currently in the center of attention. The brand, founded in 2010 in Hong Kong, has established its presence in China and now wants to conquer the rest of the Bitcoin world.
After spending some time developing hardware and embedded firmware for several clients, Black Arrow discovered cryptocurrencies about one year ago. “And we have been fascinated about the concept ever since”, reveals Alex Berk, the representative of the company who talked with Bitcoin Examiner.
We interviewed Berk to find out more about Black Arrow and the news are amazing.
After spending some time developing hardware and embedded firmware for several clients, Black Arrow discovered cryptocurrencies about one year ago. “And we have been fascinated about the concept ever since”, reveals Alex Berk, the representative of the company who talked with Bitcoin Examiner.
We interviewed Berk to find out more about Black Arrow and the news are amazing.
Quote
We’ll be supporting financially our Lancelot customers to upgrade to our new products in order to be able to recover and make money on their investment, thing that has never been done in Bitcoin industry.
Quote
Prospero X1 is right for every customer that wishes to get the best return of investment, but don’t have the space or money to spend for mining Bitcoins.
Quote
It’s understandable because the difficulty rose so much and they didn’t have a chance to recover their investment.
Quote
We understand that the relation between a vendor and customers has to be win-win. We are trying to address this by guaranteeing our customers that we’ll do everything we can to protect their investment.
Quote
We will do this through offering the best technology available, aggressive pricing, limiting the number of ASICs that we put on the market in order to give everybody a fair chance of recovering their investment and earn money.
Is there another definition for investment that I'm not aware of for, in the traditional meaning, it sure does sound like you're offering an investment service? Then again, I'm just a broke dick troll living in my mommy's basement because I can't hold down a job.
with asics here... I have a question.. WHY?!
Few reasons:
- Because we do not have ASICs
- Because ASICs are not available for everybody
- Because at the current prices of the ASICs we are just as performant.
- Far better ROI than any investment fund, bank, etc (100% in 4 months - with the current difficulty rise)
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list&page=2&sl=en
Quote
At today’s Bitcoin price and network hashing rate, X-1 would return $682 in 15 days and X-3 would return $13845 in 15 days.
Yeah their company seems a bit sketchy but they are legit.
Just you saying "they are legit", without caring to debunk any accusation, nor providing any proof?Seriously?
Is this the best you can do?
Is this post the best YOU can do? Seriously?
Lol
If I am wrong…
Yes, you are wrong.
Apparently you haven't read carefully even this one thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/black-arrow-28nm-100ghash-bitcoin-asic-from-049ghs-294197 from the beginning.
Contract with verisilicon was confirmed. So unless a large, established semiconductor company is in on the scam it doesn't make sense.
I cannot find any credible proof the contract with verisilicon, except for a press release by them as well as in their website. There's not statement or mentioning form verisilicon.
verisilicon seems to be a Chinese company. Generally, if English are not their native langauge, they just hire a website company to translate their website. Their staff neither read English news at all nor search/surf in English. (I know this because I work in Asia, with people who would just ignore the entire English speaking news.) If Black Arrow were a scam, the guys would probably know the people at verisilicon and take advantage of this. So, they posted some news about verisilicon knowing they won't be informed.
Quote
Someone (an angry customer) emailed verisilicon sales and they confirmed.
I search this forum but cannot find this history record. How did you know about this matter?
OK. I'm thinking of sending a email to verisilicon. What do you think?
Quote
Why would a company go through all the effort to design fpgas, design boards/controllers for bitfury miners, and fake a contract with a large semiconductor company just to create a very convincing scam? If they can do all that they might as well just make the chips since they would definitely have the technical know how.
Yes, I did considered they delivered some products being delivered by them. First, they are just too few of them (only a couple could be found on Google), so the "customers" who received them could be their own people. Second, we cannot verify they are legitimate products, ie. they can take some boards from the market and show it.
This scam operation is millions of dollars. All they have done, even if they have 20 scammers all working along and all those fake deliveries, do not even cost a couple tens of thousands of dollars.
How would scammers probably know someone working at verisilicon? Makes absolutely no sense.
Verisilicon is a huge company. They have offices around the world not only in china. You can find the proof in an email in the black arrow thread a few pages back. If you don't believe me or the guy who emailed them, please email them yourself (be sure to contact chinese branch)
No they cannot just take some boards from the market. How would they get by selling another companies boards as their own?
Contract with verisilicon was confirmed. So unless a large, established semiconductor company is in on the scam it doesn't make sense.
I cannot find any credible proof the contract with verisilicon, except for a press release by them as well as in their website. There's not statement or mentioning form verisilicon.
verisilicon seems to be a Chinese company. Generally, if English are not their native langauge, they just hire a website company to translate their website. Their staff neither read English news at all nor search/surf in English. (I know this because I work in Asia, with people who would just ignore the entire English speaking news.) If Black Arrow were a scam, the guys would probably know the people at verisilicon and take advantage of this. So, they posted some news about verisilicon knowing they won't be informed.
Quote
Someone (an angry customer) emailed verisilicon sales and they confirmed.
I search this forum but cannot find this history record. How did you know about this matter?
OK. I'm thinking of sending a email to verisilicon. What do you think?
Quote
Why would a company go through all the effort to design fpgas, design boards/controllers for bitfury miners, and fake a contract with a large semiconductor company just to create a very convincing scam? If they can do all that they might as well just make the chips since they would definitely have the technical know how.
Yes, I did considered they delivered some products being delivered by them. First, they are just too few of them (only a couple could be found on Google), so the "customers" who received them could be their own people. Second, we cannot verify they are legitimate products, ie. they can take some boards from the market and show it.
This scam operation is millions of dollars. All they have done, even if they have 20 scammers all working along and all those fake deliveries, do not even cost a couple tens of thousands of dollars.
Has contract with verisilicon
The only thing I can find with "verisilicon" is a quote from their own website.
Are they any verified proof from the company called "verisilicon"?
If Black Arrow is a scam operation, it is a well-coordinated, full-time and multiple multiple members operation. They are defrauding millions of dollars during a long-run (since September till they cannot hold it any more when they will just disappear) operation. They even have people with well-qualified engineering background to write those technical documents.
Someone (an angry customer) emailed verisilicon sales and they confirmed.
Why would a company go through all the effort to design fpgas, design boards/controllers for bitfury miners, and fake a contract with a large semiconductor company just to create a very convincing scam? If they can do all that they might as well just make the chips since they would definitely have the technical know how.
Has delivered bitcoin fpgas
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
To who? Where is the proof? I did saw some guys posting they received items delivered from Black Arrow, but they could be in cahoots with the scammers.
Delivered fpgas to many people.
Still delivering bitfury boards.
Contract with verisilicon was confirmed. So unless a large, established semiconductor company is in on the scam it doesn't make sense.
Reason for no pics is because case designs are not 100% complete as chips have not even begun tapeout. There are a bunch of pics of the factory with a bunch of the bitfury asics they sell.
private company =/= scam
the OP has gone headlong into a conspiracy theory without searching the forums first. I admit, I was dubious about black arrow in the first instance, but there is more evidence to say they are legit, than not.
I'll be putting in an order with them in the future. i'm sure as a rig builder, they will be around for a long while to come.
Has delivered bitcoin fpgas
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
To who? Where is the proof? I did saw some guys posting they received items delivered from Black Arrow, but they could be in cahoots with the scammers.
Delivered fpgas to many people.
Still delivering bitfury boards.
Contract with verisilicon was confirmed. So unless a large, established semiconductor company is in on the scam it doesn't make sense.
Reason for no pics is because case designs are not 100% complete as chips have not even begun tapeout. There are a bunch of pics of the factory with a bunch of the bitfury asics they sell.
private company =/= scam
Has contract with verisilicon
The only thing I can find with "verisilicon" is a quote from their own website.
Are they any verified proof from the company called "verisilicon"?
If Black Arrow is a scam operation, it is a well-coordinated, full-time and multiple multiple members operation. They are defrauding millions of dollars during a long-run (since September till they cannot hold it any more when they will just disappear) operation. They even have people with well-qualified engineering background to write those technical documents.
Yeah their company seems a bit sketchy but they are legit.
Just you saying "they are legit", without caring to debunk any accusation, nor providing any proof?Seriously?
Is this the best you can do?
Its just not worth the time. He can do the research himself. Also see my OP
Yeah their company seems a bit sketchy but they are legit.
Just you saying "they are legit", without caring to debunk any accusation, nor providing any proof?Seriously?
Is this the best you can do?
Has delivered bitcoin fpgas
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
To who? Where is the proof? I did saw some guys posting they received items delivered from Black Arrow, but they could be in cahoots with the scammers.
Yeah their company seems a bit sketchy but they are legit.
Has delivered bitcoin fpgas
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
Literally every one of your questions has been answered before. Plase do a little research before creating a ridiculously long and uninformed post..
Has delivered bitfury asics
Has contract with verisilicon
Literally every one of your questions has been answered before. Plase do a little research before creating a ridiculously long and uninformed post..
Unknown Company Background
Black Arrow first announced they are joining the mining hardware business in September 2013. It is a traceable by a post they made to bitcointalk.com forum and some press release which still can be found on the Internet. However, it offers no clue as what business it was dealing with before getting into mining hardware manufacturing.
The rationale is that if a company were to enter the mining hardware business, it must have been the computer hardware business for many years or that its founders were involved in another company and that information is publicly disclosed. For the case of Black Arrow, it is like the company popped up from nowhere. This leaves a lot of questions: If Black Arrow were in the hardware business, or it is a subsidiary spring-off, then what hardware were they manufacturing? What was the names of their affiliated companies? What was the brands of their other products? What is the size of their factory? How did they acture or build their hardware and factor or business? What was the company’s financial performance or turnover/profits?
Unknown Company Directors
The names of the directors are completely unknown. All staff seems to use username/nicknames on forums and email replies (with a first name and just a last name abbreviation). They cannot be found on any social networks, such as LinkedIn.
So the questions are: who are these people? Where (ie. what country/city) do they live? How many of them?
Almost complete lack of publicity
The only publicity Black Arrow has is some basic forms of press release and posting to [Suspicious link removed]. They are never featured nor reported in any magazines or newspapers. They have never appeared at any Bitcoin trade shows or conferences.
Web site located in Germany
Black Arrow is a Hong Kong based company and claims to have a factory in Shenzhen in mainland China. However, their website is located in Germany. Why would these guys who can own an office in Hong Kong and a factory in mainland China locate their website in Germany?
A host lookup on blackarrowsoftware.com (and its DNS nameservers) points to IP address of 91.205.173.3.
A host lookup of its forum site, ecointalk.net, reveals the IP address at 185.2.102.115.
Both belongs to hosting provider called “Contabo GmbH” in Germany. Their website is http://contabo.com. On examination, it is a very cheap VPS and dedicated servers / co-location provider; its prices are much cheaper than the general competition.
Web site in Chinese
Black Arrow claims to own a factory in Shenzhen (in the mainland China) and thus have a additional language on their website in Chinese. However, a switch to the Chinese language reveals that the translation is not completely done. A lot of the menu items (whether logged in or out) remains untranslated in English. Clearly, this is obvious that Black Arrow is not targeting the Chinese market, but focuses mainly on the English market. Why?
So, this leaves many questions: why would a company based in China and consumers in China being extremely crazy about Bitcoin yet leave out its own Chinese market? Why are they targeting only the English speaking world?
Wierd Staff Response Hours
We got an email on January 31 way past midnight (reference to local time in China) that they cannot deliver by end of February. First of all, that day is Chinese New Year. It is a holiday season equivalent to Christmas/New Year in the western world. People are eager to return home for reunion with their families and simply not in the mood to work. This is especially so for factory worker but also applies to company managers/executives. So the question is why would the staff/manager/executive would work till that late on a holiday season to send us a notification mail?
Another matter is the the response time to our emails and inquiries are simply irregular of working hour in China. If they operate a factory, they would have many staff reporting to work in regular hours. The managers/executives, too, would be expected to work the same hours. Why did they sometimes reply to our mails in the middle of the night (in China local time) or very early mornings?
Registered Hong Kong Company and a Bank Account
Black Arrow Limited is a real company incorporated in Hong Kong. A search on Google using the terms "hong kong shelf company with bank account” return results of many offshore incorporation services firms offering such services. These are pre-registered firms with pre-opened bank accounts. Sure, most would require notarized documents from clients in order to purchase them. However, there is a possibility that there could be a very few who would just sell it without asking for any ID. In other words, once they take control of the company and its bank account, they can freely withdraw money from ATMs. Therefore, by offering wire transfer as a payment, ie. proof of having a legitimate bank account, actually means nothing in terms of the legitimacy of the business.
A search on their address “Room 1701, 17/F, Henan Building, No. 90-92 Jaffe Road
Wanchai, N/A” on Google reveals many other companies. So, this seems that it is a virtual address, shared office or mail redirection service. In other words, it is unlikely they have their own premises (functioning as a sales office) within Hong Kong with a proper signboard.
As for the factory location in Shenzhen, China, we do not have any verification of its existence or some photos.
Still, only computer generated graphics
Black Arrow has used graphics softwares to many beautiful images of their mining machines. It is now already February and why don’t they have any real photos of their products?
Technical Documents
They have produced very technical documents of the mining machines. Well, I think one of their scamming artist team members must be an enginner. Since they are scamming millions of dollars, it is easy to partner with a real engineer and devote full time to write those documents.
Some videos uploaded to YouTube
They uploaded some videos of the factory manufacturing process. However, those does not show the factory belong to them. They can simply ask a friend (or one of the scheming partner) to take some video (whether opening or secretly) of what’s happening inside a factory - any factory. So, therefore, those videos uploaded to YouTube means nothing.
The Scam Operation is Very Real
Bitcoin mining is a pre-order and pre-pay market. So, people pay and wait. While waiting, people don’t know they are scammers but expect to get their machines.
Some will ask for refunds for whatsoever reasons. They will refund to reduce the number of public complaints. Their strategy is that they will offer refunds as long as the new sales amount is greater than the refunds being claimed.
They started their scam business back in September, and “promised” to deliver in February. So, they are now trying to “extend” the period of wait until May. When May comes, most probably they will come up with another reason for yet another delay. Eventually, they will have nothing to deliver and their website will disapear.
If I am wrong…
Well, if I am wrong, I’ll be happy to order many mining machines from them. They have great specs, eg. reasonable price per GH/s and great electricity consumption
If I am right…
Since they have a real incorporated company in Hong Kong with a bank account, it is possible ot trace the directors or the incorporating agent or secretary. It is possible to make it into a criminal pursuit by law enforcement. However, we don’t expect them to be living in Hong Kong, but need to chase them down internationally. They should have left their fingerprints and would definitely be traceable.
Black Arrow first announced they are joining the mining hardware business in September 2013. It is a traceable by a post they made to bitcointalk.com forum and some press release which still can be found on the Internet. However, it offers no clue as what business it was dealing with before getting into mining hardware manufacturing.
The rationale is that if a company were to enter the mining hardware business, it must have been the computer hardware business for many years or that its founders were involved in another company and that information is publicly disclosed. For the case of Black Arrow, it is like the company popped up from nowhere. This leaves a lot of questions: If Black Arrow were in the hardware business, or it is a subsidiary spring-off, then what hardware were they manufacturing? What was the names of their affiliated companies? What was the brands of their other products? What is the size of their factory? How did they acture or build their hardware and factor or business? What was the company’s financial performance or turnover/profits?
Unknown Company Directors
The names of the directors are completely unknown. All staff seems to use username/nicknames on forums and email replies (with a first name and just a last name abbreviation). They cannot be found on any social networks, such as LinkedIn.
So the questions are: who are these people? Where (ie. what country/city) do they live? How many of them?
Almost complete lack of publicity
The only publicity Black Arrow has is some basic forms of press release and posting to [Suspicious link removed]. They are never featured nor reported in any magazines or newspapers. They have never appeared at any Bitcoin trade shows or conferences.
Web site located in Germany
Black Arrow is a Hong Kong based company and claims to have a factory in Shenzhen in mainland China. However, their website is located in Germany. Why would these guys who can own an office in Hong Kong and a factory in mainland China locate their website in Germany?
A host lookup on blackarrowsoftware.com (and its DNS nameservers) points to IP address of 91.205.173.3.
A host lookup of its forum site, ecointalk.net, reveals the IP address at 185.2.102.115.
Both belongs to hosting provider called “Contabo GmbH” in Germany. Their website is http://contabo.com. On examination, it is a very cheap VPS and dedicated servers / co-location provider; its prices are much cheaper than the general competition.
Web site in Chinese
Black Arrow claims to own a factory in Shenzhen (in the mainland China) and thus have a additional language on their website in Chinese. However, a switch to the Chinese language reveals that the translation is not completely done. A lot of the menu items (whether logged in or out) remains untranslated in English. Clearly, this is obvious that Black Arrow is not targeting the Chinese market, but focuses mainly on the English market. Why?
So, this leaves many questions: why would a company based in China and consumers in China being extremely crazy about Bitcoin yet leave out its own Chinese market? Why are they targeting only the English speaking world?
Wierd Staff Response Hours
We got an email on January 31 way past midnight (reference to local time in China) that they cannot deliver by end of February. First of all, that day is Chinese New Year. It is a holiday season equivalent to Christmas/New Year in the western world. People are eager to return home for reunion with their families and simply not in the mood to work. This is especially so for factory worker but also applies to company managers/executives. So the question is why would the staff/manager/executive would work till that late on a holiday season to send us a notification mail?
Another matter is the the response time to our emails and inquiries are simply irregular of working hour in China. If they operate a factory, they would have many staff reporting to work in regular hours. The managers/executives, too, would be expected to work the same hours. Why did they sometimes reply to our mails in the middle of the night (in China local time) or very early mornings?
Registered Hong Kong Company and a Bank Account
Black Arrow Limited is a real company incorporated in Hong Kong. A search on Google using the terms "hong kong shelf company with bank account” return results of many offshore incorporation services firms offering such services. These are pre-registered firms with pre-opened bank accounts. Sure, most would require notarized documents from clients in order to purchase them. However, there is a possibility that there could be a very few who would just sell it without asking for any ID. In other words, once they take control of the company and its bank account, they can freely withdraw money from ATMs. Therefore, by offering wire transfer as a payment, ie. proof of having a legitimate bank account, actually means nothing in terms of the legitimacy of the business.
A search on their address “Room 1701, 17/F, Henan Building, No. 90-92 Jaffe Road
Wanchai, N/A” on Google reveals many other companies. So, this seems that it is a virtual address, shared office or mail redirection service. In other words, it is unlikely they have their own premises (functioning as a sales office) within Hong Kong with a proper signboard.
As for the factory location in Shenzhen, China, we do not have any verification of its existence or some photos.
Still, only computer generated graphics
Black Arrow has used graphics softwares to many beautiful images of their mining machines. It is now already February and why don’t they have any real photos of their products?
Technical Documents
They have produced very technical documents of the mining machines. Well, I think one of their scamming artist team members must be an enginner. Since they are scamming millions of dollars, it is easy to partner with a real engineer and devote full time to write those documents.
Some videos uploaded to YouTube
They uploaded some videos of the factory manufacturing process. However, those does not show the factory belong to them. They can simply ask a friend (or one of the scheming partner) to take some video (whether opening or secretly) of what’s happening inside a factory - any factory. So, therefore, those videos uploaded to YouTube means nothing.
The Scam Operation is Very Real
Bitcoin mining is a pre-order and pre-pay market. So, people pay and wait. While waiting, people don’t know they are scammers but expect to get their machines.
Some will ask for refunds for whatsoever reasons. They will refund to reduce the number of public complaints. Their strategy is that they will offer refunds as long as the new sales amount is greater than the refunds being claimed.
They started their scam business back in September, and “promised” to deliver in February. So, they are now trying to “extend” the period of wait until May. When May comes, most probably they will come up with another reason for yet another delay. Eventually, they will have nothing to deliver and their website will disapear.
If I am wrong…
Well, if I am wrong, I’ll be happy to order many mining machines from them. They have great specs, eg. reasonable price per GH/s and great electricity consumption
If I am right…
Since they have a real incorporated company in Hong Kong with a bank account, it is possible ot trace the directors or the incorporating agent or secretary. It is possible to make it into a criminal pursuit by law enforcement. However, we don’t expect them to be living in Hong Kong, but need to chase them down internationally. They should have left their fingerprints and would definitely be traceable.
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