Block explorers oligopoly. | Bitcointalksearch.org

ABCbits

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Quote from: NotATether on June 02, 2021, 11:43:40 AM

Quote from: DaveF on June 02, 2021, 08:49:31 AM

Still looking for the explorer in a box that I mentioned above. I know I downloaded it and ran it. No idea where I put the image or if I even saved it or if it was a VHD / VHDX / VDI or some other format.
Being a data hoarder can be a pain at times.

Setting up bitcoind & mynode/Esplora/iquidus (these block explorer names can be a PITA to remember sometimes) on Virtualbox and then copying the VDI file somewhere to use as a template later should also function as a sort of image, no?

Wouldn't Docker image more efficient in this case? It's lighter and took less more space (few GB for the guest OS). Additionally, it's easier to find per-configured package using Docker image rather than VDI or OVA file.

Of course i know VDI or OVA file is easier for those who're comfortable with GUI application/configuration.

DaveF

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Quote from: ABCbits on June 03, 2021, 04:22:10 AM

...
Wouldn't Docker image more efficient in this case? ...

Possibly but...while we are drifting far OT from the original post VM vs Container is not IMO that simple.

Running on my main workstation at the office Which is Win 10 I have VMs that include Win10, UBU 18, UBU 16 and a CentOS box.

If you know every thing you are going to play with can share a common OS then Docker is good. But if you are booting and testing / using a lot of different things then you are back to VMs

It's like the Hyper-V vs. VMWare argument. There are many things that either one does better then the other. But trying to get someone to "switch sides" is like fighting a holy war.

-Dave

DaveF

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Quote from: NotATether on June 02, 2021, 11:43:40 AM

Setting up bitcoind & mynode/Esplora/iquidus (these block explorer names can be a PITA to remember sometimes) on Virtualbox and then copying the VDI file somewhere to use as a template later should also function as a sort of image, no?

Yes, but this was a prepacked install.
nginx as a reverse proxy
let's encrypt installed
etc.
It really was boot...edit a few config files...drink beer.

But, I remember there were some issues that I was going to look at "tomorrow" but never got to.
Had not even thought about it till I saw this thread.

-Dave

NotATether

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Quote from: DaveF on June 02, 2021, 08:49:31 AM

Still looking for the explorer in a box that I mentioned above. I know I downloaded it and ran it. No idea where I put the image or if I even saved it or if it was a VHD / VHDX / VDI or some other format.
Being a data hoarder can be a pain at times.

Setting up bitcoind & mynode/Esplora/iquidus (these block explorer names can be a PITA to remember sometimes) on Virtualbox and then copying the VDI file somewhere to use as a template later should also function as a sort of image, no?

DaveF

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DaveF on June 01, 2021, 08:31:52 AM

1) Most PCs these days have virtualization turned on by default.

Really? I usually found it's turned off by default. Additionally on Windows, you might have problem with Hyper-V (if you use VirtualBox.

Guess it depends on the maker or model line.
Just about all the Dell workstations I have worked on in the last 10 years have had it turned on by default.
Since that is 90%+ of what I deal with I thought it was universal.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Also know a bit how to secure your server.

Quote from: NotATether on June 02, 2021, 08:17:30 AM

But I wouldn't run a block explorer in a VM in the first place, you lose the opportunity to utilize hyperthreading and all those extra threads the explorer could've used.

Both true.

Still looking for the explorer in a box that I mentioned above. I know I downloaded it and ran it. No idea where I put the image or if I even saved it or if it was a VHD / VHDX / VDI or some other format.
Being a data hoarder can be a pain at times.

-Dave

NotATether

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DaveF on June 01, 2021, 08:31:52 AM

1) Most PCs these days have virtualization turned on by default.

Really? I usually found it's turned off by default. Additionally on Windows, you might have problem with Hyper-V (if you use VirtualBox.

You can have multiple hypervisors installed side-by-side, just don't run them all together or there will be system stability problems. Most hypervisors will stop you from launching it if they detect another hypervisor is running e.g. I know VMware will refuse to run if Hyper-V is installed and enabled at windows boot.

But I wouldn't run a block explorer in a VM in the first place, you lose the opportunity to utilize hyperthreading and all those extra threads the explorer could've used.

DaveF

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Quote from: kryme on June 01, 2021, 03:19:10 PM

I've been curious about running block explorers for a while and haven't really looked into it. I hope this is as easy as you say it is. Do you know if I can host this publicly (that's my long-term goal).

If you are using the mynode node in a box

I can either go with yes.....with a but.
Or
No.....with a however.

The web side of mynode.com is not particularly secured.
The explorer by default is not on a standard port.
and if gets hammered with traffic, since it's not particularity efficient it will not keep up.

I don't know how well you know linux but another simple one to install is https://github.com/iquidus/explorer
You need to know a bit but not a lot.

-Dave

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Quote from: DaveF on May 31, 2021, 04:00:48 PM

If you want to run a block explorer but don't want to get into setting up a database or learning how, there are some "nodes in a box" out there that have them.
All you need is some bandwidth, the available storage space and a computer that can run a base VM and you can install some of them. Others work on a RPi

https://www.mynodebtc.com/ is one of the more popular ones.

-Dave

I've been curious about running block explorers for a while and haven't really looked into it. I hope this is as easy as you say it is. Do you know if I can host this publicly (that's my long-term goal).

DaveF

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Quote from: ABCbits on June 01, 2021, 06:04:47 AM

Since i've tried myNode in past, you still need to learn to setting up something (although it's easier). Few examples (if you use myNode on VM),
1. Enable CPU virtualization on BIOS.
2. Configure VirtualBox to connect myNode with your USB external HDD/SSD.
3. Other optional stuff which mentioned on guide page (https://www.mynodebtc.com/guides).

1) Most PCs these days have virtualization turned on by default.
2) Only if you have it on an external drive. My mynode is running all on my "D" drive on my Windows box.
3) True.

And although not 100% simple the regular updates are much easier to do as opposed to upgrading something you put together yourself.

I have to see if I can find it, I have a vague memory of a couple of years ago someone creating an explorer in a box using the bitpay insight explorer.

-Dave

ABCbits

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Quote from: DaveF on May 31, 2021, 04:00:48 PM

If you want to run a block explorer but don't want to get into setting up a database or learning how, there are some "nodes in a box" out there that have them.
All you need is some bandwidth, the available storage space and a computer that can run a base VM and you can install some of them. Others work on a RPi

https://www.mynodebtc.com/ is one of the more popular ones.

-Dave

Since i've tried myNode in past, you still need to learn to setting up something (although it's easier). Few examples (if you use myNode on VM),
1. Enable CPU virtualization on BIOS.
2. Configure VirtualBox to connect myNode with your USB external HDD/SSD.
3. Other optional stuff which mentioned on guide page (https://www.mynodebtc.com/guides).

DaveF

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If you want to run a block explorer but don't want to get into setting up a database or learning how, there are some "nodes in a box" out there that have them.
All you need is some bandwidth, the available storage space and a computer that can run a base VM and you can install some of them. Others work on a RPi

https://www.mynodebtc.com/ is one of the more popular ones.

-Dave

kano

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Quote from: coinableS on May 31, 2021, 12:08:47 AM

...
scantxoutset scans the utxo set to match a certain output descriptor. Pruned nodes don't have all the block data, but they have a full UTXO set that's precisely how pruned nodes work.

That of course doesn't include history.
So you wont get the historical spend transactions and their matching receives they spent.

SFR10

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Quote from: bitmover on May 25, 2021, 08:42:26 AM

Are there small blockexplorers that you guys know or use?

Yes, refer to the following list: List of useful Bitcoin block explorers
^{- Ignore all of the ratings since it's subjective.}

Quote from: bitmover on May 25, 2021, 08:42:26 AM

Do you think is there a room for a new block explorer?

There's always room for one more if it brings something "new" to the table Wink

I don't think I've ever enjoyed reading this many comments and arguments ^{[after the first few posts]} on any thread.

coinableS

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Quote from: kano on May 30, 2021, 09:22:57 PM

Quote from: coinableS on May 28, 2021, 07:49:56 PM

scantxoutset

You can run a pruned node on your machine locally and scan for UTXO's for ANY address (doesn't have to be imported to your wallet) by using the scantxoutset command. It takes a few minutes, but not nearly as long as a rescan. Doesn't take up a ton of space, and better than using a blockexplorer.

To query one address: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"}]'
Or for multiple addresses: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"},{"desc":"addr(1AnotherAddressToCheck)"}]'

Since a pruned node does not have all transactions in the block chain, only those limited to what the pruned node stores, it cannot show you any long term history and will certainly return nothing for any confirmed transactions older than the amount pruned.

scantxoutset scans the utxo set to match a certain output descriptor. Pruned nodes don't have all the block data, but they have a full UTXO set that's precisely how pruned nodes work.

kano

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Quote from: coinableS on May 28, 2021, 07:49:56 PM

scantxoutset

You can run a pruned node on your machine locally and scan for UTXO's for ANY address (doesn't have to be imported to your wallet) by using the scantxoutset command. It takes a few minutes, but not nearly as long as a rescan. Doesn't take up a ton of space, and better than using a blockexplorer.

To query one address: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"}]'
Or for multiple addresses: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"},{"desc":"addr(1AnotherAddressToCheck)"}]'

Since a pruned node does not have all transactions in the block chain, only those limited to what the pruned node stores, it cannot show you any long term history and will certainly return nothing for any confirmed transactions older than the amount pruned.

pooya87

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Quote from: Pmalek on May 29, 2021, 02:21:53 PM

Quote from: HCP on May 27, 2021, 06:15:51 PM

Sure, all the transactions are available on the public blockchain... but can you tell which ones are mine? Huh

The ones that appear on the public ChipMixer spreadsheet are yours Wink

. Anyone could follow the movement of those coins (or get a chain analysis company to do it) until you mix them, do a CoinJoin, or send them to an exchange where you could exchange them for a different coin and withdraw them. I know that's not what you meant, just saying.

The point is that by looking at the "public blockchain" you can not know which transaction belongs to who. And you didn't do that here either, you looked at a centralized database (ie. google spreadsheets) that HCP (and others) have willingly linked their (virtual) identity to those transactions.

Pmalek

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Quote from: HCP on May 27, 2021, 06:15:51 PM

Sure, all the transactions are available on the public blockchain... but can you tell which ones are mine? Huh

The ones that appear on the public ChipMixer spreadsheet are yours Wink

. Anyone could follow the movement of those coins (or get a chain analysis company to do it) until you mix them, do a CoinJoin, or send them to an exchange where you could exchange them for a different coin and withdraw them. I know that's not what you meant, just saying.

coinableS

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scantxoutset

You can run a pruned node on your machine locally and scan for UTXO's for ANY address (doesn't have to be imported to your wallet) by using the scantxoutset command. It takes a few minutes, but not nearly as long as a rescan. Doesn't take up a ton of space, and better than using a blockexplorer.

To query one address: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"}]'
Or for multiple addresses: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"},{"desc":"addr(1AnotherAddressToCheck)"}]'

kano

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Block explorers exist to cover one thing that has always been missing from core bitcoin: an address index.
That is the extra thing missing that all public block explorers must implement.

While you can always see your transactions for your core wallet, that implies you must have a wallet with online access, for every address you are interested in.

HCP

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Quote from: TangentC on May 28, 2021, 11:36:09 AM

Or does the community want to admit that running a non-mining node holds zero value for the bitcoin network,
because they can't have it both ways,
either running a non-mining bitcoin node is valuable to the network and deserves payment
or
running a non-mining bitcoin node is worthless to the network and does not deserve any compensation.

So which is it?

Or, as repeatedly mentioned, running a non-mining bitcoin node offers intangible benefits to the user running the node, which is it's own form of "reward".

Again, you want everything you do to make money, and that's fine... more power to you... but running a Bitcoin node does not do this. However it does offer other "benefits" that some users consider worth the "energy and hardware and bandwidth and the time to maintain the node."^[1]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[1] the costs of which can be relatively negligible. I have it running on my home PC, which is always on 24/7 anyway, on an unlimited broadband connection, on a spare 1TB HDD that was repurposed from an old NAS. My "maintenance time" costs are occasionally spending 5 minutes downloading and installing the latest version of Bitcoin Core. Hardly onerous requirements.

Topic: Block explorers oligopoly. (Read 918 times)