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Topic: Blockchain split of 4 July 2015 - page 14. (Read 45635 times)

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
July 04, 2015, 05:20:26 PM
it would never be valid.

This is why people shouldn't have relied on any transaction as being confirmed except those that were showing as confirmed by something that got its info from Bitcoin core.
I know where you're coming from but the bold is untrue. In theory and practice the longest blockchain becomes dominant.

Since most of the world's nodes and miners use the newest Bitcoin Core there was no problem this time, but if China decided to fire up a bunch of miners using the old protocol then Bitcoin Core users would've been the ones on the wrong chain. This is one of the inherent dangers of forks and why they need to be used as little as possible.

Pretty remarkable our community was almost entirely unaware of this fork, I guess considering the XT backlash the devs didn't want to make it well known publicly until it was already done.
No you are incorrect on two fronts.

I could (somewhat) easily create a blockchain that is 400,000 blocks long (roughy 37,000 blocks longer then the current blockchain) however in order for me to do this I would need to  adjust the timestamps of my found blocks so that the current difficulty would be significantly lower then it is today. This would result in a longer blockchain, but one with less total work then the current blockchain. The chain with the greatest total work is the valid Bitcoin blockchain - this is usually going to also be the longest one, however in my example it would not be.

If miners are mining invalid blocks, then they would be mining on an alt coin's blockchain, and it would not be Bitcoin's blockchain....if this altcoin would have any value would be a separate question.

I think you are right from the point of the view that assuming the miners EVENTUALLY all switch to the 'correct' version, then THAT will become the longest chain.
However, I think turtlehurricane could be correct in the situation where a long chain is built that ignores, say a certain BIP, and then the community decides
to throw that out for now and just keep mining on the main chain that has been built.  Either way, its going to boil down to the consensus of the community
and which version they ultimately choose.  However, it will be damaging to Bitcoin if at any point there is a long reorg.

 
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
July 04, 2015, 05:15:19 PM
it would never be valid.

This is why people shouldn't have relied on any transaction as being confirmed except those that were showing as confirmed by something that got its info from Bitcoin core.
I know where you're coming from but the bold is untrue. In theory and practice the longest blockchain becomes dominant.

Since most of the world's nodes and miners use the newest Bitcoin Core there was no problem this time, but if China decided to fire up a bunch of miners using the old protocol then Bitcoin Core users would've been the ones on the wrong chain. This is one of the inherent dangers of forks and why they need to be used as little as possible.

Pretty remarkable our community was almost entirely unaware of this fork, I guess considering the XT backlash the devs didn't want to make it well known publicly until it was already done.
No you are incorrect on two fronts.

I could (somewhat) easily create a blockchain that is 400,000 blocks long (roughy 37,000 blocks longer then the current blockchain) however in order for me to do this I would need to  adjust the timestamps of my found blocks so that the current difficulty would be significantly lower then it is today. This would result in a longer blockchain, but one with less total work then the current blockchain. The chain with the greatest total work is the valid Bitcoin blockchain - this is usually going to also be the longest one, however in my example it would not be.

If miners are mining invalid blocks, then they would be mining on an alt coin's blockchain, and it would not be Bitcoin's blockchain....if this altcoin would have any value would be a separate question.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 503
|| Web developer ||
July 04, 2015, 04:09:11 PM
Hello when should this be resolved and even can it e resolved ?? I hope no ones loose his trust in Bitcoin and leave it just like
that !

Bitcoin Boy.
sr. member
Activity: 365
Merit: 251
July 04, 2015, 03:51:29 PM
Can you explain what happened to transactions that were recorded in the unintentional hard fork, which failed?

Invalid, went back to original address.
Won't most transactions have been propagated onto both sides of the fork? If that happens, the same transaction would get confirmed on both forks and it wouldn't matter to it which fork won. A double-spend attempt could mess this up, but if the sender is honest, the fork shouldn't matter.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
July 04, 2015, 03:49:36 PM
OMG WTF guys? I`m getting scared.

So if i just send now a transaction, then i lose my bitcoins and it doesnt get to the other end?

Also what if i buy now bitcoin with € do i get fake bitcoin if the merchant is on wrong chain?

This could be a serious problem. No FUD intended but seriously, i`m starting to panic/   Huh

Is it just me or is the impact of this non-event severely exaggerated?

It didn't have much direct impact this time... however, I think there is reason to be concerned.
Imagine if 48% of the hashing power was on the 'wrong' fork instead of 35% or
whatever it was.  You start running into the possibility of a real split network that won't
converge on its own. 

It behooves the community to examine the process by which pools and nodes stay updated.
Honestly, a pool watchdog would be a good thing, to make sure all major pools are operating
on the same codebase.  Or if someone has better ideas, pls share.


I believe that more then 50% of the network was actually mining on the invalid chain for some time. Regardless of how long it would become, it would never be valid.

This is why people shouldn't have relied on any transaction as being confirmed except those that were showing as confirmed by something that got its info from Bitcoin core.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
July 04, 2015, 03:42:44 PM
OMG WTF guys? I`m getting scared.

So if i just send now a transaction, then i lose my bitcoins and it doesnt get to the other end?

Also what if i buy now bitcoin with € do i get fake bitcoin if the merchant is on wrong chain?

This could be a serious problem. No FUD intended but seriously, i`m starting to panic/   Huh

Is it just me or is the impact of this non-event severely exaggerated?

It didn't have much direct impact this time... however, I think there is reason to be concerned.
Imagine if 48% of the hashing power was on the 'wrong' fork instead of 35% or
whatever it was.  You start running into the possibility of a real split network that won't
converge on its own. 

It behooves the community to examine the process by which pools and nodes stay updated.
Honestly, a pool watchdog would be a good thing, to make sure all major pools are operating
on the same codebase.  Or if someone has better ideas, pls share.

legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
July 04, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
OMG WTF guys? I`m getting scared.

So if i just send now a transaction, then i lose my bitcoins and it doesnt get to the other end?

Also what if i buy now bitcoin with € do i get fake bitcoin if the merchant is on wrong chain?

This could be a serious problem. No FUD intended but seriously, i`m starting to panic/   Huh

Is it just me or is the impact of this non-event severely exaggerated?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
July 04, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
anti-fragile my ass
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
July 04, 2015, 02:59:24 PM
You can mine the correct chain with the pools listed here (the chain the exchanges use  Roll Eyes):

http://p2pool.jir.dk/bitcoin/?allnodes=1
ok  most of those havent upgraded to 14.0 which p2pool should be on. I wouldn't recommend mine on those.

Below is a better scanner use only ones that are on version 14.0
http://nodes.p2pool.co/
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
July 04, 2015, 02:56:38 PM
If any wallet does not allow older version blocks, will that be a considered "fix"?


legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
July 04, 2015, 02:52:35 PM
You can mine the correct chain with the pools listed here (the chain the exchanges use  Roll Eyes):

http://p2pool.jir.dk/bitcoin/?allnodes=1
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
July 04, 2015, 02:43:26 PM
So it appears like f2pool is not validating blocks according to v3 rule and there we got a fork at 363731 followed by a massive amount of orphans coming from f2p and antpool. Personally i had no trouble with running SPV client. But seems like there is no much concern since both pools are now fixed.
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
July 04, 2015, 02:33:19 PM
I have yet to hear from someone who was negatively affected by this other than the large centralized pools.
This was preplanned and v4 is the next step but there is not set date just set requirements.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
July 04, 2015, 02:11:59 PM
Oh, the 4th is the point v3 threshhold hit 95%, it looks to me like the bad blocks started on June 16th as that's when blockchain.info got corrupted. I use p2pool so this SPV business is something I'm oblivious to and it looks like it caused more bad chains.
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 502
July 04, 2015, 01:54:46 PM
Where are you guys getting this 4th of July date from?

https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining

oops someone beat me to it,

however to sum it up in a sarcastic way we got the info by completely reading the whole OP including his edits and reading the links he provided.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
July 04, 2015, 01:53:52 PM
Fail at breaking Bitcoin.

My records indicate the "issue" started on June 16 and lasted until the 23rd when transactions from the 17th and 22nd showed up. blockchain.info's database corruption also starts on the 16th and is corrupt/wrong chain until the 26th. I upgraded p2pool to v14 on the 28th.

Everything has been hunky dory since the 23rd with the only issue being a minor decrease in payout rate for a few days due to me not noticing the push for a some hours and, possibly a bit of mining on the wrong chain until the v14 update.

This is a very minor hiccup if you've mined in the alt-coin mining space, where things go very wrong sometimes.

Where are you guys getting this 4th of July date from?

https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
July 04, 2015, 01:51:24 PM
Fail at breaking Bitcoin.

My records indicate the "issue" started on June 16 and lasted until the 23rd when transactions from the 17th and 22nd showed up. blockchain.info's database corruption also starts on the 16th and is corrupt/wrong chain until the 26th. I upgraded p2pool to v14 on the 28th.

Everything has been hunky dory since the 23rd with the only issue being a minor decrease in payout rate for a few days due to me not noticing the push for a some hours and, possibly a bit of mining on the wrong chain until the v14 update.

This is a very minor hiccup if you've mined in the alt-coin mining space, where things go very wrong sometimes.

Where are you guys getting this 4th of July date from?
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
July 04, 2015, 01:50:07 PM
2-3 halvings? I think that as early as next halving 50 BTC >> 25 BTC the 'miners' will change their actual tactic and start to accept everything without any insane rules .

That could be as soon as next year, which would be great. Fees are still under 1% of the block value, but after the next halving they could be over 1%. That might be enough.
donator
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1012
July 04, 2015, 01:44:57 PM
A very serious event for sure - but seems to have been mostly fixed already.

It shows, that relying on SPV wallets is not a good idea at all. Only full nodes offer full security. That's why excessive increases in blocksize are dangerous: The number of full nodes will decline further, because the average user doesn't have the resources to run them. In turn, the system as a whole will become less secure and more vulnerable to events like this.

ya.ya.yo!
What kind of resource are you talkin about? The only thing you need really is disc space (for now blockchain info is about 42GB big) every stationary PC or laptop is capable of storing more.
It is not resources we lack, it is that people are lazy is the problem.

I have run my own pool (p2pool) on crap hardware which was a quad-core i5 with 8GB RAM. When my node received a new block, it took 5 seconds for bitcoind on my quad-core i5 to validate the < 1MB block. That is 5 full seconds when my miners could not do any useful work work. So you see it is not just the disk space that is used up when block go bigger - pools and mining nodes would have to invest in faster processors as well or they will lose the edge.

legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
July 04, 2015, 01:42:09 PM
Is online web wallet are safe for transaction as i am using coinbase web wallet so i have to wait for that 30 confirmations, how can we know that incoming transaction is from the right fork and cant be double spend?
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