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Topic: Blockchain split of 4 July 2015 - page 17. (Read 45630 times)

legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1029
July 04, 2015, 08:45:43 AM
So this will only potentially effect people who are making transaction, sending & receiving coins atm?
If I'm a simple HODLER & haven't & won't be buying any coins this weekend I'm safe & ok yes?
Thanks in advance to anybody who responds.

Hodlers are unaffected

Payers, technically speaking, are unaffected, despite that your payees may require more confirmations than usual

Payees, with Bitcoin core 0.9.5 or above, are unaffected.

Payees, with anything else, please follow the instructions in the header of the forum
So, just to confirm, you ARE able to send and receive transactions on bitcoin wallets that aren't 0.9.5 and up, as long as you wait for an extra 30 confirmations?
I'm using blockchain.info as my day to day use wallet.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
July 04, 2015, 08:42:10 AM
As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

The bolded points:

95% of the network was claiming to be mining v3 blocks,
50% of the network was SPV mining,
but only 50% of the SPV miners were claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

Doesn't that mean that 50% of the SPV miners, and so 25% of the network wasn't claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

If so, how did we reach the 95% trigger?

Perhaps they were only claiming to be mining v3 blocks but not actually doing so... ?

I think you missed my point.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
July 04, 2015, 08:39:30 AM
As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

The bolded points:

95% of the network was claiming to be mining v3 blocks,
50% of the network was SPV mining,
but only 50% of the SPV miners were claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

Doesn't that mean that 50% of the SPV miners, and so 25% of the network wasn't claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

If so, how did we reach the 95% trigger?

Perhaps they were only claiming to be mining v3 blocks but not actually doing so... ?


Is there a explorer we could see on this fork, because it would be good to compare block times and since what block has this started from their claims.
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
July 04, 2015, 08:38:58 AM
As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

The bolded points:

95% of the network was claiming to be mining v3 blocks,
50% of the network was SPV mining,
but only 50% of the SPV miners were claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

Doesn't that mean that 50% of the SPV miners, and so 25% of the network wasn't claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

If so, how did we reach the 95% trigger?

I has nothing directly to do with BIP66 (although this is what was the case this time) as this scenario would have existed for any invalid block being picked up by SPV miners. F2Pool and Antpool who were SPV mining actually did adopt v3 blocks/ BIP 66 but due to not validating BTC Nuggets block (to gain a slight latency advantage) they began mining on the wrong chain. Thus it was BTC Nuggets who was part of the 5% who didn't upgrade to the newest v3 blocks.  

Perhaps they were only claiming to be mining v3 blocks but not actually doing so... ?

It is not possible unless they quickly switched back to v2 blocks after updating to v3 and the 95% thresh-hold was reached. All evidence points to a risk they undertook by the process of SPV mining itself where they picked up on  BTC Nuggets invalid block without validating it.
hero member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 502
July 04, 2015, 08:36:23 AM
As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

The bolded points:

95% of the network was claiming to be mining v3 blocks,
50% of the network was SPV mining,
but only 50% of the SPV miners were claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

Doesn't that mean that 50% of the SPV miners, and so 25% of the network wasn't claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

If so, how did we reach the 95% trigger?

Perhaps they were only claiming to be mining v3 blocks but not actually doing so... ?
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
July 04, 2015, 08:30:57 AM
As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

The bolded points:

95% of the network was claiming to be mining v3 blocks,
50% of the network was SPV mining,
but only 50% of the SPV miners were claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

Doesn't that mean that 50% of the SPV miners, and so 25% of the network wasn't claiming to be mining v3 blocks?

If so, how did we reach the 95% trigger?
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
July 04, 2015, 08:23:32 AM
Just for some extra clarity..........
For consumer level users: make sure that you (or your wallet provider) are on Bitcoin 0.9.5 or later, and wait for 30 confirmations on your transfers.
For miners:  stop SPV mining, validate everything or lose income.

(and, obviously, transfer all your BTC into nice stable NXT....... Grin )



Consumers on 0.9.5 or later are safe an do not have to wait for 30 confirmations. This recommendation is for SPV/web wallet wallet users who are unaware which version they are connected to. Most web wallets and SPV wallets are safe in reality but users should either check or wait 30 confirmations.

This is a large warning to users to not only be careful and skeptical about bitcoin but be that more careful with using any alt as they have a small fraction of developers debugging , testing and warning users compared to bitcoin.

So this will only potentially effect people who are making transaction, sending & receiving coins atm?
If I'm a simple HODLER & haven't & won't be buying any coins this weekend I'm safe & ok yes? My BTC's in several wallets & paper wallets are ok & I can totally ignore this?
Thanks in advance to anybody who responds.

This only effect Bitcoin users using a node that is 0.9.4 or earlier whether directly or through an SPV /web wallet. The only risk they have is if a malicious attacker tries to double spend with them. To avoid this check with your connected node to make sure you are up to date, use an up to date bitcoin core node, or wait 30 confirmations.

There was never any risks to you losing your coins in paper wallets or cold storage even if you started up an old version of core.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
July 04, 2015, 08:19:45 AM
Is there a way to force those spv mining to have their work count as less to discourage it?

if I understand it correctly, they are losing a lot of money at the moment due to mining on an obsolete fork... so that's punishment
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
Captain
July 04, 2015, 08:18:11 AM
Wonderful to see how quick the community take action and got this problem under control.
Also great to see that the bitcoin exhange rate is pretty much unaffected.
Just show that everything is under control.
Pretty amature of those pools who did not support the BIP66, I well guess they paid the price with all the orphan blocks they mined, hope they learned a leasson.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
July 04, 2015, 08:15:07 AM
Is there a way to force those spv mining to have their work count as less to discourage it?
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
July 04, 2015, 08:11:41 AM
Does it affect coinbase and btc-e ?

I guess not affected but only they could confirm. Anyone using Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 or above is safe
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
July 04, 2015, 08:10:30 AM
So this will only potentially effect people who are making transaction, sending & receiving coins atm?
If I'm a simple HODLER & haven't & won't be buying any coins this weekend I'm safe & ok yes?
Thanks in advance to anybody who responds.

Hodlers are unaffected

Payers, technically speaking, are unaffected, despite that your payees may require more confirmations than usual

Payees, with Bitcoin core 0.9.5 or above, are unaffected.

Payees, with anything else, please follow the instructions in the header of the forum
sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 250
MS & Adobe keys. [email protected]
July 04, 2015, 08:09:02 AM
Does it affect coinbase and btc-e ?
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001
July 04, 2015, 08:08:08 AM
Quote
Summary: Some miners are currently generating invalid blocks. Almost all software (besides Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 and later) will accept these invalid blocks under certain conditions. The paragraphs that follow explain the cause more throughly.

For several months, an increasing amount of mining hash rate has been signaling its intent to begin enforcing BIP66 strict DER signatures. As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

All software that assumes blocks are valid (because invalid blocks cost miners money) is at risk of showing transactions as confirmed when they really aren't. This particularly affects lightweight (SPV) wallets and software such as old versions of Bitcoin Core which have been downgraded to SPV-level security by the new BIP66 consensus rules.

The immediate fix, which is well underway as of this writing, is to get all miners off of SPV mining and back to full validation (at least temporarily). As this progresses, we will reduce our current recommendation of waiting 30 extra confirmations to a lower number.

Just for some extra clarity..........
For consumer level users: make sure that you (or your wallet provider) are on Bitcoin 0.9.5 or later, and wait for 30 confirmations on your transfers.
For miners:  stop SPV mining, validate everything or lose income.

(and, obviously, transfer all your BTC into nice stable NXT....... Grin )

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
July 04, 2015, 08:04:28 AM
             

legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 9709
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
July 04, 2015, 08:01:51 AM
So this will only potentially effect people who are making transaction, sending & receiving coins atm?
If I'm a simple HODLER & haven't & won't be buying any coins this weekend I'm safe & ok yes? My BTC's in several wallets & paper wallets are ok & I can totally ignore this?
Thanks in advance to anybody who responds.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
July 04, 2015, 08:00:58 AM
what is the meaning of this?
does it mean that bitcoin may have a bug or something?

how did this happen? is it a flaw on bitcoin system? well i hope its not because
i think it will be a serious problem if many things like this occurs in the future

In short: some miners are not doing their job properly. As far as I know, this is the first incident of this kind. However, if many miners keep their sub-optimal practice, we may have similar problem again.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
37iGtdUJc2xXTDkw5TQZJQX1Wb98gSLYVP
July 04, 2015, 07:53:45 AM
what is the meaning of this?
does it mean that bitcoin may have a bug or something?

how did this happen? is it a flaw on bitcoin system? well i hope its not because
i think it will be a serious problem if many things like this occurs in the future
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
July 04, 2015, 07:41:06 AM
Note from Gregory Maxwell on reasons why the alert was delayed--

Quote from: nullc
I made a conscious decision to delay sending out a warning since there were no transaction conflicts and most of the hashpower on the invalid chain was not mining transactions. This was discussed, in public, with the rest of the technical crew that was minding the issue.

Without any conflicts at play yet the fork was harmless, and I thought it was better to gather more information before acting and the rest of the active tech folks seemed to agree. Had conflicts shown up the alert would have gone out immediately.

It was also the case that all versions of Bitcoin Core who would have been on the invalid fork would have been displaying an automatically generated alert due to the presence of 'future' version blocks.



Official Status and recommendations--

https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining


ome Miners Generating Invalid Blocks
4 July 2015

This document is being updated as new information arrives. Last update: 2015-07-04 09:30 UTC
Summary

Your bitcoins are safe if you received them in transactions confirmed before 2015-07-04 08:00 UTC.

However, there has been a problem with a planned upgrade. For bitcoins received later than the time above, confirmation scores are significantly less reliable then they usually are for users of certain software:

    Lightweight (SPV) wallet users should wait an additional 30 confirmations more than you would normally wait.
    Bitcoin Core 0.9.4 or earlier users should wait an additional 30 confirmations more than you would normally wait or upgrade to Bitcoin Core 0.10.2.
    Web wallet users should wait an additional 30 confirmations more than you would normally wait, unless you know for sure that your wallet is secured by Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 or later.
    Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 or later users are unaffected.

Miners

If you pool mine, please switch to a pool that properly validates blocks. (If you solo mine, please switch to Bitcoin Core 0.10.2.)

Bad pools: these pools are not correctly validating, and are losing money.

    BTC Nuggets

Good pools: these pools properly validate blocks. Please switch to them, at least until the bad pools have fixed their systems.

    Eligius
    kano/ckpool
    P2Pool
    F2Pool

When Will Things Go Back To Normal?

The problem is miners creating invalid blocks. Some software can detect that those blocks are invalid and reject them; other software can't detect that blocks are invalid, so they show confirmations that aren't real.

    Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 and later never had any problems because it could detect which blocks were invalid.
    Bitcoin Core 0.9.4 and earlier will never provide as much security as later versions of Bitcoin Core because it doesn't know about the additional BIP66 consensus rules. Upgrade is recommended to return to full node security.
    Lightweight (SPV) wallets are not safe for less than 30 confirmations until all the major pools switch to full validation.
    Web wallets are very diverse in what infrastructure they run and how they handle double spends, so unless you know for sure that they use Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 or later for full validation, you should assume they have the same security as the lightweight wallets described above.

What's Happening

Summary: Some miners are currently generating invalid blocks. Almost all software (besides Bitcoin Core 0.9.5 and later) will accept these invalid blocks under certain conditions. The paragraphs that follow explain the cause more throughly.

For several months, an increasing amount of mining hash rate has been signaling its intent to begin enforcing BIP66 strict DER signatures. As part of the BIP66 rules, once 950 of the last 1,000 blocks were version 3 (v3) blocks, all upgraded miners would reject version 2 (v2) blocks.

Early morning UTC on 4 July 2015, the 950/1000 (95%) threshold was reached. Shortly thereafter, a small miner (part of the non-upgraded 5%) mined an invalid block--as was an expected occurrence. Unfortunately, it turned out that roughly half the network hash rate was mining without fully validating blocks (called SPV mining), and built new blocks on top of that invalid block.

Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far.

All software that assumes blocks are valid (because invalid blocks cost miners money) is at risk of showing transactions as confirmed when they really aren't. This particularly affects lightweight (SPV) wallets and software such as old versions of Bitcoin Core which have been downgraded to SPV-level security by the new BIP66 consensus rules.

The immediate fix, which is well underway as of this writing, is to get all miners off of SPV mining and back to full validation (at least temporarily). As this progresses, we will reduce our current recommendation of waiting 30 extra confirmations to a lower number.
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1528
No I dont escrow anymore.
July 04, 2015, 07:25:56 AM
Hi your mine about bicoin core is about program ? or website ? i always use of website and have good job

It depends which version of bitcoin core the website uses. Contact their support and ask.
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