Topic: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero) - page 33. (Read 132857 times)

zoho is the only (major) provider that still has multiple free email accounts on a private domain.

Sure, this is all speculation.  But I'm suggesting that the white paper and the ideas behind it are probably the work of one or more academic cryptographers (or at least professional cryptographers of some description - but I'm guessing academics).  It's not impossible, of course, but I think it's far, far less likely that this was the work of amateurs.

So if I'm right and this is the brainchild of one or more academics, then we're left with two possibilities: either the academics are behind the premine scam or, for whatever reason, the academics can't or won't come forward to discredit Bytecoin.

Obviously both are possible, but I find the latter easier to believe.  Perhaps, as I said earlier, they fear it might compromise their anonymity to weigh in here and maybe they fear that being associated with this project would damage their academic reputation.

roy

He didn't have to operate in the group i would say, or that group was smaller/more-homogeneous compared to CN group. In group there are a lot of interests, and some decisions are made as a compromise - not optimal as it turned out. I have no idea how this thing actually happened but i can understand that fuckups can happen if things are not simple.

Don't get me wrong, not just that i'm not Andrei, i'm not cryptoanithing and i've never even went to Russia. My point is that imo you are using "fancy words" to which ppl are "scared of" just to make cheap points to your claims - and that may be characterized as a form of FUD. As i said before, i do not think that is even relevant and yet you use it as an argument. I do not think high of whole CN team, he just may be in i part that i do not like, but neither you or me know that certanly so you are making this into witch hunt! Witch hunts amuses ppl but does not solve problems usually. Digesting facts solves problems.

My motive is that i think that several projects in this early stage is good for CN technology itself. With too aggressive attitude you may slow down development of the technology, and i'm sure that it is not your intention  

Boolberry has the same mail host, but the rest doesn't match up. I can't decide if Sabelnikov is the mastermind behind all of this and, after a fallout with the idiots running the BCN shill accounts, wanted to separate himself from them. Or he could still be involved with/leading them and this is their last-ditch way of keeping a finger-in-the-pie - HoneyPenny was meant to be a one-trick-pony and just add "Wild Keccak", but after they lost control of Monero they realised they were fucked and needed to have something completely separate and "clean". Or he could truly have split off from the herd and be on his own. Can't decide, but the lack of transparency from him makes BBR not even worth touching until his motives can be figured out or he tells us.


His early familiarity with the code gives his relationship with the CryptoNote developers away. Whether he did more than just write some/all of the code I don't know.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not a high school chemistry teacher. I'm annoyed as fuck and I'm going to express my conclusion. Nobody is forced to agree with me.


This makes no sense. It doesn't matter how oppressive your state is, lying and trying to bullshit your way around a story is not a way you engender trust. Satoshi Nakamoto managed to remain anonymous and still have a transparent, open, and fair release. Why do it any differently?



THEY LIED TO US AND PURPOSELY DECEIVED US. I don't care what conclusion you draw from that, but fuck them and their dishonesty. You don't need to be blatantly dishonest unless you have nefarious motives.


Seriously bro, are you his nanny? Does he need a hug and a kiss from you?

You obviously struggle with reading comprehension, so I'll explain again. I don't give a fuck if Sabelnikov is personally responsible for every piece of spam I have ever received. Not a single flying fuck do I give. I have an issue with dishonesty and a lack of transparency. If Sabelnikov had introduced BBR by saying "oh hey, I wrote this epee library and a fuckton of Bytecoin code, but for reasons I won't reveal I'm doing my own coin" we would all have gone "well fuck me, this guy is the money". Even if he didn't say that outright at the beginning, he had the perfect opportunity to come out yesterday and say "people of the Internet unite! I am indeed Sabelnikov! And now I will tell you the true story of CryptoNote!" But he didn't, maybe because he's afraid of Putin knocking on his back door, maybe because he's afraid of the wackjob behind this whole sham breaking his kneecaps, or maybe because he is directly involved with them or is the wackjob in question.

I can't ascertain how involved he is because he refuses to tell us, so I am forced to assume his motives are impure and stay the fuck away from anything he touches.


What in actual fuck did I just read. I never spoke about non-English speakers at all, except for mentioning that Sabelnikov worked at two Russian security firms, and that the Reset CSS snippet was published in an article on a Russian website. Are these untrue or racist statements?

The only other time I mention language is when I say that the Bytecoin shills are easy to spot because "it's easy to see common grammar and spelling fuck ups". I know plenty of native English speaking Americans people that can't speak English for shit. I never once even implied that the shitty grammar was an indication of them not being native English speakers. How can you completely misunderstand something that is this basic??!!


"Disclaimer: I'm a butthurt BBR supporter, I may even be Sabelnikov's alt account. I'm against people insulting anything I like or presenting information along with an opinion of their own because nobody should have an opinion that doesn't exactly match mine."

Fixed that for you.

The claims were that those ppl are not credible, neither the ppl that are not long-term members of bitcointalk.org. It was claimed few times, not just regarding shill accounts. This community is widening with every passing day, and that should be a good thing. There were also conclusions drown from the fact that CN guys were probably not active on this Forum long enough generally, but i fail to see how that proves their malevolent motives. I made it more clear in the original post. Tnx.

Investors don't actually give a rip about "proof" of scam.  They are quite satisfied to flee the general appearance of a scam.  I think we all know which CN coin has managed to emerge from this sludge with some sparkle of integrity intact.  I think that's a good thing.  The sooner and more clearly the sheep are separated from the goats, the better it will be for everyone.

I would urge rethink-your-strategy, since the OP is a dynamic document, to elide the expletives, to reach a broader audience.  Stylistic maturity lends gravitas, which this labor deserves.  The case would be more effective if "not a single fuck" was given.

But it's strange that the CryptoNote team never actually try to discredit the Bytecoin scam.

But if going by your argument that there really was an original CryptoNote "Academic" team that wrote the concept and theory behind the technology but somehow disappeared and then the Bytecoin guys wrote the current implementation, create their own version of "CryptoNote team" that would appear to be an independent entity alongside Bytecoin, to give credence to BCN's work.

The problem with this is that now we are talking about speculation and conspiracy and that does not bring anything to the table.

So far, the evidence does seem to taint CryptoNote too. But that's not to say the technology and the work done is not important, quite the contrary, it seems to be the most significant thing since Bitcoin. It literally has spawned new life into the crypto scene.

This is very funny. Nobody is making racist claims. It is just that bad English is an easily identified trait that can be found in many of these specific shill posts.

Even more funny is that I have seen before those shill accounts making claims of racism when this property of their posts was pointed out in different places at similar times.

To make a point, my English is less than perfect, but I have not been accused of being a "FUDster troll" up until now.

By CryptoNote team I meant the people behind the white paper and original design, not whoever is now running cryptonote.org.  I was just finding it hard to believe that the gifted academic(s) that came up with this were in on the scam.

I think we're in agreement here?

roy

Nice catch, dog. I'll update the post.

Things are getting interesting, i like that  

Rethink-your-strategy, you showed in OP that you can verify certain claims, but honestly you should provide facts without giving conclusions atm – do not assume that readers are idiots. You gave strong evidence about dates of two documents, paper v1 and v2, but this does not tell much about motives for such action. Your conclusions are very naive and now i'll explain why.

You conclude that whole original CN group had one goal and that is was to scam ppl out of their money, but actually world is much more complex than you suggest. I'll offer alternative scenario by assuming that not every person is the same and that within that group members had different motives for participation. Some may be interested in a technology, some in human rights, other just didn't wont in the future for their girlfriends/wifes to know where they spend all of their money, some wished to produce monetary platform they can invest in long-term in and finally some just wonted to get fruits of their labor quickly and non-transparently. It is not your only mistake that you do not see spectrum of possible motives, with in a group of ppl, but you neglect the fact that there are more repressive states in the World than one you have in the US. This whole 2y in deep web mining by small groups around the globe claim could have been an attempt to anonymise development path of CN, and i can hardly see what is wrong with that. After all, they are not the first who gave monetary platform and wanted to stay anonymous, remember “Satoshi group”? I couldn't care less if they come from China, India, Russia or Iran, as proven later they gave cryptographically solid platform to the rest of the World - a private one that is arguably more valuable than transparent one (in altruistic sense).

Without a doubt, some members of that group did have get rich quickly motives, but to conclude that no other motive exists if just ridiculous. If i was to jump to conclusions as you do i may conclude that your whole effort is to prove that every coin except Monero have devs that know the technology, which puts Monero ~1y behind rest of the CN coins, but that would also be ridiculous. Please give us facts, and skip the conclusions, things are obviously to complex to be able to conclude anything just yet.

Other thing that is dubious in your conclusions imo is that about that guy Andrei. Do you find him guilty that emails work as they do so spaming is cheap, or if he is guilty that certain OS is insecure enough so it can be easily exploited, or because of him pharmaceutical industry is what it is today? Dude, if he made botnet that does not steel money from ppl using banking services “secure” as they are at the moment that does tell a lot about him per se. What evidence you have to claim that he would not do something else (less dubious) if he was payed enough for his talents? You seem to be forgetting that not everyone has the same chance as ppl in US.

This brings me to my last point. Claims made not just by you, that ppl which are not native English speakers are not credible is racist crap and should be avoided at all cost! It is not important how much Hero or whatever status member has – speaking like that just reduces his credibility significantly and mark him as FUDster troll, subtle in some cases but troll nevertheless. On the contrary, i see some of the CN projects as galvanizers that (first time in History?) bring ppl from all over the globe to contribute together for a benefit to all,  without formal obligations and contracts. This is just beautiful, and would not be possible without the Internet. If BTC gave ppl chance to connect despite cultural differences, CNs may be leading in exploiting this opportunity.

So again, please, give us facts but do not be aggressive with drawing the conclusions. If you would travel more around the globe your conclusions may be stronger, but i assure you that this does not sound very convincing to all.

Disclaimer: I never mined or owned BCN, and I have no clue who these ppl are. I'm against premine/ninjamine generally but i do like most other consequences of CN group work.

That seems pretty well demonstrated at this point.


I'd say it is up to you as a coin participant/user/investor to decide.

Now that you know who and what you are dealing with, if you think this is a good opportunity for you, go for it!

I happen to think you are insane if you do that, but to each his own.

I pretty much thought I answered your questions has to how they are going to scam you:

1. They actually put very little time and effort into the development. It's all smoke and mirrors, and someone (who is probably, behind the scenes, "developer" of many coins) showing up every once in a while to post a shallow or meaningless message but not actually doing any real development. In other words, this whole charade costs them very little, but also accomplishes very little besides keeping the coin alive so it can occasionally get pumped.

2. Asymmetric information. Which is a fancy way to say that they know when they are going to abandon the coin and let it die and you don't. You can be sure they will have cashed out all their coins by that point (or at least as many as they decide it is worth cashing out), and you won't have (unless you are very lucky).

But good luck with it.

I'm interested in OP's opinion on this though. Although I've been skeptical of Bytecoin almost from the beginning and doing a little digging here and there, he's obviously put a lot more time into researching it all, especially the clones.

Originals usually hold value a little better than clones, but cloning a 'good' scam coin or a coin with extremely dubious distribution, makes Cryptonotes a little less predictable. (and why I rarely hold them)

Monero I guess is more like an original in this case, sort of. I do think getting the truth out there is good for Monero or people that think Bytecoin is legit and might be getting suckered in.

Ok, I read it. You have brought forth more evidence that the cryptonote coins are likely related. Cool.

Now let's assume that you have 100% undeniable, completely verifiable proof that people connected to Bytecoin/CryptoNote at some level are responsible for the launches of QCN, FCN, MCN, etc. Now answer this for me:

What is the extent of fuckery that they can perform using these coins and how can they scam people with it? Or are they just out to get Monero (which would be accomplished how? By making their coin as successful as possible and prying the community away from Monero? By not doing any of the things below to risk the integrity of their coin?
-Hidden blocks?
-Falsified premine?
-Ninja launch/instamine?
-Pump on fake developments in order to cash out botnet earnings?
-Use botnets to pulverize the value of the coin into nothing (no pumping, just pure downhill sledding) and then launch a new coin and repeat?
-Secret weapons of mass mining destruction?
-Ring signatures are actually square?
-Anything else?

How many of these things are actually happening in any of the coins right now?
How many of these things are accompanied by a dev that acts strangely?
How many of these things can be sniffed out fairly easily by the community?

If the cryptonote coins are being malevolently run by scammers then these scammers are an odd bunch compared to the POS coin scammers. Who the heck gets all pissy at Monero for exposing their Bytecoin scam and decides to release a few merge mining coins that make the guys they are all pissed at richer? This alone makes no sense and I would like an explanation.

hmm, new account signed up to post this message... we know what that means! guilty as charged!

Those comments also appear in bitmonero.org's CSS (http://bitmonero.org/css/common.css).

And it is bytecoiner.org's CSS, not bytecoin.org's.

And why if they did NOT designed the algo, but "obtained" it from someone else? Think about the behaviour of the Bytecoin and CryptoNote team. Granded, you can be a genius and a bastard all at the same time, but being genius-only or bastard-only is more common. I let you extrapolate on this.