[ Bonus PPS Pool - 130% PPS - OPEN ] - page 62.

farfiman

legendary

Activity: 1449

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Quote from: Inaba on February 08, 2012, 07:24:44 PM

But you aren't stealing. Anyone, by now, mining on a prop pool should understand they are losing money. If they choose to continue to mine on a prop pool, then they de facto accept that hopping is happening. There is no moral question at this point as to whether or not hopping is unethical. The flaws are known, widely disseminated and understood by the majority.

The pool operator knows or has cause to know it's a flawed system and by continuing to offer it accepts that hopping will occur.

The miner knows or has cause to know that proportional is flawed and will be hopped, thus cutting in to their earnings.

Neither operator nor miner are forced into their actions and alternate (many!) exist. Ergo, it is not unethical.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is ethical. The scams going on in the loan thread are possible
because there are some "suckers" ( including me) that fell prey to the scammers. So is it ethical for them to do it
just because they can? When I started mining i had no idea about hopping and of course was on prop. pools because that was mostly what there was. When it became more public knowledge I was pissed and was against the idea, and of course moved to other pools and of course spoke out against the hopping system. I remember ( i think...) that organofcorti said once that he was doing it for the good of the miners - his rational was that it will eventually push all the prop. pools out of the market...meanwhile he made some nice btcs....

EDIT: forgot to say that I am mining on this pool because I accept the OPs explanation for now.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: bulanula on February 08, 2012, 06:38:35 PM

Quote from: P4man on February 08, 2012, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: martychubbs on February 08, 2012, 06:07:44 PM

See, has Clipse been asking for help on improving BitHopper? Why? Cause it had a hard time scaling? Hopping with very high hash rates!

https://github.com/Clipseza

Good catch. Thats pretty convincing evidence in case anyone still doubted it.

LOL. The investigative powers of this forum never cease to amaze me.

I think it is fair to say that is what they are probably doing. I have been in Africa ( Harare to be precise ) and I know one thing : the people there CERTAINLY would not be buying BTC like crazy. Even in SA, ( which is much more civilized and people are not dying of hunger ) I wouldn't believe that there was so much demand for BTC.

Anyway, anyone got a link on how I can do that myself straight away with some sort of proxy on my LAN or something like that ?

Like I said before, I have morals but I just want to see the profit margins and how it is done. I certainly would not do it long term for profit. Stealing from miners = no-no.

Thank you !

I forgot to reply to this as at the time I was absolutely shocked that there is still such misinformation about "AFRICA".

South Africa isnt as backwards as you make it seem, there is a ton of money here and if you dig a little deeper you would find that South Africa is a hugely emerging country and one of few with actual positive reserve bank *cough* United States of America doesnt even feature in that *cough*

Its true we have alot of problems and unemployment but that would assume you think I am unemployed and one whos part the poor society, again speculation that is smack-bang out of place.

Lastly, well done comparing South Africa at all with Harare(perhaps for the last decade the most backwards country in Africa) , shocking comparison.

martychubbs

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 503

Quote from: Clipse on February 09, 2012, 01:23:02 AM

Quote from: martychubbs on February 09, 2012, 12:35:15 AM

Clipse, i probably pissed you off and i am sorry. The don't hop my pool thing was lame, especially when you offer PPS:-)

I just felt like shenanigans were going on and i was Perry Mason. I have no problem with hopping, i just wanted to remind the anti-hoppers of their greed. :-) And if i can get you to admit it, they may relize that they are being hypocritical. It just seems to me hopping could give you 25%

Heck, I'd send my 2gh your way if i didn't think it would overload your server or that i couldn't beat 15%.
Whatever, make money... God bless you

Nah, Im not actually upset. I just realised from most of the negative responses and as I call it witchhunts that people simply cant deal with something that offers more than they think it should or could. This leads to absurd speculation and producing evidence thats freely available for over a year in this forum that somehow proves undeniably that I am doing the same with my miners hashing as if I popped on this forum a week ago and simply put together something to produce me $bills.

I know none of this is true and I am not going to provide every bit of details around my dealings.

That said, I will work on a way so that our pool can report found blocks and that all these scum witchhunters can finally just go away, this will be available at the time that we go public with the pool.

It was a guess that I threw out there to make the day interesting, I have no clue what you do or where you mine. So, I'll take you at your word and drop it. BTW, P4 is a total buster, can't hop in his pools

Also, this guy has some ballz

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/project-2-is-industial-hopping-chaang-nois-goat-confession-63192

Clipse

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Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: P4man on February 09, 2012, 01:20:02 AM

Quote from: QuantumFoam on February 08, 2012, 09:53:15 PM

An explanation of why I made the comment I did: The thing I take issue with is truthfulness or lack thereof.

My point exactly. Pool hopping is a given, and I really have no "moral" issue with it.
Lying about what it is you do with other people's resources is something else though. In that sense I was pleased to see the OP was edited, but dismayed that Clipse now perpetuates his lie even after the cat is out of the bag.

There is no cat out of the bag, only your detective work pointing me to bithopper(well done, you could have simply used the forum search button) and using that as evidence to what I am doing with the pool hashrates.

I dont even expect you to believe me, I know you wouldnt want to otherwise where would you post 90% of your daily posts on this forum if not about some conspiracy around poolhopping.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: martychubbs on February 09, 2012, 12:35:15 AM

Clipse, i probably pissed you off and i am sorry. The don't hop my pool thing was lame, especially when you offer PPS:-)

I just felt like shenanigans were going on and i was Perry Mason. I have no problem with hopping, i just wanted to remind the anti-hoppers of their greed. :-) And if i can get you to admit it, they may relize that they are being hypocritical. It just seems to me hopping could give you 25%

Heck, I'd send my 2gh your way if i didn't think it would overload your server or that i couldn't beat 15%.
Whatever, make money... God bless you

Nah, Im not actually upset. I just realised from most of the negative responses and as I call it witchhunts that people simply cant deal with something that offers more than they think it should or could. This leads to absurd speculation and producing evidence thats freely available for over a year in this forum that somehow proves undeniably that I am doing the same with my miners hashing as if I popped on this forum a week ago and simply put together something to produce me $bills.

I know none of this is true and I am not going to provide every bit of details around my dealings.

That said, I will work on a way so that our pool can report found blocks and that all these scum witchhunters can finally just go away, this will be available at the time that we go public with the pool.

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: QuantumFoam on February 08, 2012, 09:53:15 PM

An explanation of why I made the comment I did: The thing I take issue with is truthfulness or lack thereof.

My point exactly. Pool hopping is a given, and I really have no "moral" issue with it.
Lying about what it is you do with other people's resources is something else though. In that sense I was pleased to see the OP was edited, but dismayed that Clipse now perpetuates his lie even after the cat is out of the bag.

martychubbs

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 503

Clipse, i probably pissed you off and i am sorry. The don't hop my pool thing was lame, especially when you offer PPS:-)

I just felt like shenanigans were going on and i was Perry Mason. I have no problem with hopping, i just wanted to remind the anti-hoppers of their greed. :-) And if i can get you to admit it, they may relize that they are being hypocritical. It just seems to me hopping could give you 25%

Heck, I'd send my 2gh your way if i didn't think it would overload your server or that i couldn't beat 15%.
Whatever, make money... God bless you

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: QuantumFoam on February 08, 2012, 09:53:15 PM

An explanation of why I made the comment I did: The thing I take issue with is truthfulness or lack thereof. The github link looked pretty bad and I commented on that fact. The timeline of the posts there seemed to line up with the issues the pool has had over the last several days. I would think you could appreciate my point of view as a miner; we're entering into an agreement with you, and then this material turns up that indicates the original stated purpose of the pool wasn't the truth. Basically, would you enter into a business agreement with someone who looked like they weren't being truthful about some of the details of the deal?

Im not denying that the OP was "secretive" of nature to some extend(does it really matter, who does it affect?) however do you honestly think I would post with my own forum nickname on the bithopper github in plain sight (really, how good of a detective do you need to be to find those github post?) if I had any wrongdoing. It would have taken a few seconds to start posting there with a seperate account but I didnt do it because I had no reason to hide my activity on there.

A few things changed with local agreements and thats why I edited the OP, at the time I had no concrete details to post in place of the content I removed.

What is important to me and to the miners(perhaps this was wrongfully assumed?) is that I deliver a service and make sure miners get paid what they are due, call me silly but since when did hosting a pool become such a crime with evil intent around each corner unless you actually charge 3-10% in pool fees, then no one seems to raise their pitchforks.

This reminds me of the old software selling mantra: "Give something away for free and people will question its integrity, charge an arm and a leg and people will pay it happily"

QuantumFoam

full member

Activity: 200

Merit: 100

|Quantum|World's First Cloud Management Platform

An explanation of why I made the comment I did: The thing I take issue with is truthfulness or lack thereof. The github link looked pretty bad and I commented on that fact. The timeline of the posts there seemed to line up with the issues the pool has had over the last several days. I would think you could appreciate my point of view as a miner; we're entering into an agreement with you, and then this material turns up that indicates the original stated purpose of the pool wasn't the truth. Basically, would you enter into a business agreement with someone who looked like they weren't being truthful about some of the details of the deal?

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: cablepair on February 08, 2012, 08:58:20 PM

in my humble opinion it does not matter what you do with these hashes because you are buying them and now they belong to you.

Maybe you should have a EULA that miners must agree to before they can mine for you - something giving full rights to you to use the hashes as you please and also releasing the miner from any liability tied to said use.

I think Clipse is a good dude, and I think he has a good opportunity here to bring some transparency to this emerging technological mining trend. If you are using it for hopping take this opportunity to be honest about it, because there is nothing wrong with it, the only thing wrong here is dishonesty (in my humble opinion)

Ive never felt the reason to be approved of in this forum, Ive been hear longer than most of these trolls so I know how it goes.

I have till this day not used any users hashrate to Hop which again will just open up another witchhunt so stay tuned cause the trolls will be posting more "damning evidence" which would prove nothing other than their dillusional fetish to stir up crap.

cablepair

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Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

in my humble opinion it does not matter what you do with these hashes because you are buying them and now they belong to you.

Maybe you should have a EULA that miners must agree to before they can mine for you - something giving full rights to you to use the hashes as you please and also releasing the miner from any liability tied to said use.

I think Clipse is a good dude, and I think he has a good opportunity here to bring some transparency to this emerging technological mining trend. If you are using it for hopping take this opportunity to be honest about it, because there is nothing wrong with it, the only thing wrong here is dishonesty (in my humble opinion)

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: martychubbs on February 08, 2012, 05:41:10 PM

Stop lying, you are hopping with everyone hashes! I see you and the the Thai Sheep hopping on Bitclockers and trying on Bitlc. Your business plan is BS and makes no sense, but hopping at 125% and keeping the 5% to 10% spread is a good idea, but lying and killing prop pools is lame

So, wake up miners, your self-righteous quest to make sure everyone is equal allows the some to take advantage of you and make you think your are equal are in fact robbing you by using your hashes against your wishes...being used unequally ala prop pools <43.5% I guess putting a layer between hopping and your emotion/inexperience makes it easier to sleep at night.

Please show me your magical ability to detect me on these pools you mention, Sir Detect alot.

Clipse

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Uh what happened as I go to sleep, people destroy my thread.

Everyone knows Ive hopped since the start of it being discussed in this forum over a year ago, I never denied that. However, so far I have not hopped with users hashrate for various reasons and the fact that Im reporting bithopper bugs which relates to my own mining have nothing to do with where I am directing my pool hashing power.

The only hopping I still do is with my own mining farm, I have allways done this and I feel no need to deny that.

I really dont see the point of commenting since everyone tom, dick and harry will make up their own mind about what they perceive as the truth.

That said, if you dont wish to mine with this pool any longer its up to you, Im not going to defend myself and what I do against over zealous forum detectives who finds one thing (that I have participated in for over a year) and see it for another thing, wtf ever.

cablepair

hero member

Activity: 896

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Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

+1

eleuthria

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Inaba on February 08, 2012, 07:24:44 PM

But you aren't stealing. Anyone, by now, mining on a prop pool should understand they are losing money. If they choose to continue to mine on a prop pool, then they de facto accept that hopping is happening. There is no moral question at this point as to whether or not hopping is unethical. The flaws are known, widely disseminated and understood by the majority.

The pool operator knows or has cause to know it's a flawed system and by continuing to offer it accepts that hopping will occur.

The miner knows or has cause to know that proportional is flawed and will be hopped, thus cutting in to their earnings.

Neither operator nor miner are forced into their actions and alternate (many!) exist. Ergo, it is not unethical.

A few months ago I would've disagreed, but now I'd consider it the same as the speed limit on a freeway. Everybody is hopping (speeding) on proportional. Bitching that people are taking your money (passing you while you go the limit), while technically a "justified" complaint, it is not the exception, it is the new rule.

cablepair

hero member

Activity: 896

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Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

wow inaba what a change of heart! ( i have watched you rip pool ops a new one in the past for running a prop pool Tongue

) very reasonable of you.

oh and I agree with you 100%

Inaba

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

But you aren't stealing. Anyone, by now, mining on a prop pool should understand they are losing money. If they choose to continue to mine on a prop pool, then they de facto accept that hopping is happening. There is no moral question at this point as to whether or not hopping is unethical. The flaws are known, widely disseminated and understood by the majority.

The pool operator knows or has cause to know it's a flawed system and by continuing to offer it accepts that hopping will occur.

The miner knows or has cause to know that proportional is flawed and will be hopped, thus cutting in to their earnings.

Neither operator nor miner are forced into their actions and alternate (many!) exist. Ergo, it is not unethical.

cablepair

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

naa man its true!!!

Theres this Nigerian Prince who needs help getting his money out of the country, he decided since all his cash has been blackened and he ran out of magic money De-blackening cleaner he would instead move his money into the US via overpriced Bitcoin Hashes!

bulanula

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: P4man on February 08, 2012, 06:10:17 PM

Quote from: martychubbs on February 08, 2012, 06:07:44 PM

See, has Clipse been asking for help on improving BitHopper? Why? Cause it had a hard time scaling? Hopping with very high hash rates!

https://github.com/Clipseza

Good catch. Thats pretty convincing evidence in case anyone still doubted it.

LOL. The investigative powers of this forum never cease to amaze me.

I think it is fair to say that is what they are probably doing. I have been in Africa ( Harare to be precise ) and I know one thing : the people there CERTAINLY would not be buying BTC like crazy. Even in SA, ( which is much more civilized and people are not dying of hunger ) I wouldn't believe that there was so much demand for BTC.

Anyway, anyone got a link on how I can do that myself straight away with some sort of proxy on my LAN or something like that ?

Like I said before, I have morals but I just want to see the profit margins and how it is done. I certainly would not do it long term for profit. Stealing from miners = no-no.

Thank you !

QuantumFoam

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Activity: 200

Merit: 100

|Quantum|World's First Cloud Management Platform

I have to say that's pretty damning evidence on the github site

Topic: [ Bonus PPS Pool - 130% PPS - OPEN ] - page 62. (Read 94030 times)