Topic: Bottlecaps 2.1 UPDATE REQUIRED - HARDFORK JULY 4 2014 to 200% Annual PoS - page 157. (Read 388610 times)

I am hoping the longer POW stays the primary coin generation mechanism more ad more users will hold their locally coins for stake versus exchanges is what im getting at.

If pow blocks are orphaned at a rate above 50% continuously like that mining of the currency will be wastefull in a sense,

With 3 minute stake and 1 minute POW they should mix well together even with continuous 3 minute stake blocks until POW reward diminishes

Its more apparent in CAps i believe because of the short block times. PPC POW remains profitable due to the longer block times less POW / POS blocks intersecting leaving POW blocks orphaned. In order to compensate for the shorter time between blocks I feel it needs to be staggered with slower POS block generation that POW. Since 3 minutes is still a fast network I think its a ideal timing

EDIT again: But that brings back your issue of coin destruction if i get rid of POW reward... It will require more thought as it will really be a differant system what im thinking. Perhaps ill take the night and think it over some more

Yes I understand thats how stake is supposed to work. Take over as the primary. But I myself and I believe most users would prefer that POW continue to be slightly more stable for the short to medium term. My hope is increasing stake time to a more reasonable 2.5 to 3 minutes may allow the POW blocks to continue to achieve a higher % of the block when we encounter situation like this. My understanding is the majority of the flood came from the cryptsy wallets and if I continue to let POS take over a huge shares of blocks like that it wont be "fair" to the miners and stake minters themselves as they are not the one getting the benefits of the stake for the most part

With a 3 minute stake spacing and 1 minute pow spacing hopefully less pow blocks will be orphaned as the difficulty can adjust better for POS. The original developer thought he had put a cap on POW generation at 9 years or x amount of coins. It may not have worked out that way but i can implement it correctly by severely lowering or removing POW reward when it was supposed to be


My hope is basically extending times and adjusting difficulty retarget will allow the life of POW to be extended further as the primary coin generation method and not become a orphan spree from the big holders ( in this case exchanges) because so few users have had the ability to gain the coin generation from POW. Hopfeully in the future there will be more and more individuals holding a healthy amount of stake and at that point it wont be the  exchanges benefiting from POS it will be the user

These are all just possibilities. I am open to any and all suggestions. I just believe users expected POW minting to be feasable for the 9 years advertised and am hoping to make it so they work together nicely until POW reward diminishes and POS takes over as the primary. 3 minute blocks is still rather fast and more stable than 1 minute

Well for that I will once again be looking at balthazar's fabulous work with NVC I will contain it in the next update with the improved look of the wallet. Im also looking at making some possible improvments of my own to Bitcoins coin control project and implementing it as an optional part of the QT. As well as a few things to assist in further debugging some of the more minor issues.

All of this as I work to straighten out the stake settings

I don't think that you need to fix anything, that's not a problem. Proof-of-Stake is a security provider in this network, it should replace Proof-of-Work eventually. Otherwise this design has no sense.

They shouldn't do anything like this, because such action will make network weaker. Reservebalance is your enemy.

Instead of this you need find the way to stimulate users hold the stake in their own wallets, not exchanges.

So I have that long to attempt to fix. it. I also found cryptsy was generating massive amounts of stake blocks and when they set their wallets a reservebalance is around the time it cleared up.

I suggested vern move back and fourth between wallets with large transaction from now on as it was the only exchange at the time and is most likely holding a considerable portion of the currency. As of today we will have 3 exchanges trading Bottlecaps.

Thanks again for all the help Balthazar

As well as YukonCoinelius

 
Hash rates have gone up nicely in past couple days as has difficulty to account for this...over 112Mh's currently through four pools and that's without solo mining numbers...with that being said is there an easy way to see or retrieve the overall network hash rate at any given time as there is no "getnetworkhashps" command in the client? (All the pools never have a valid number for this due to the client not having this feature) would love to know if there is easy way to figure this out or if the command could be added to a future client update/release? Thanks

Orphans will come back 30 days later, for a longer period... And every next period will be longer than previous. Process will continue and eventually period borders will overlap. This process should take 7-12 months approximately.

You were right in that this would likely clear up quickly and it has! Pools looking great with NO orphans anymore. Back on track. Awesome

This is all great news. The blockchain has cleared this hurdle. We have 3 exchanges as of today that are or will be accepting and trading caps. Plenty of services to spend your caps happily

Showing no orphans at the pools

cap.coinmine.pl

https://www.multipool.us/stats.php?curr=cap

https://coinex.pw/mining/pools/CAP

Hopefully we can get p2pool setup and a few more pools for users to sink their teeth into.

REMINDER: Small tx values stake fix will kick in on Sept. 9th 00:00:00 GMT Please make sue you have all your clients updated by this point. Encourage others to do so as it is a relatively short protocol change

CAPs now traded on https://phenixex.com

Use your CAPs for Visa cards
http://visa4crypto.com

Ok the coinpayment guys are doing a revote lets get CAPs added!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/multi-cryptocoin-payment-processing-coin-list-re-vote-286120

mullick, you can't use any limited emission model (limited by hard-coded time/height condition) with Proof-of-Stake system.

The system don't care about limits or "9-year models". It will become primary mechanism as soon as total stakes volume will be enough to support stable PoS blocks rate at values closer to used target spacing (1 minute in your case). After this PoW will be thrown away through jump of PoW difficulty. In case of massive coins destruction the PoW mechanism comes back to generate more coins in order to restore network stake.

Actually you should remove it, otherwise it will be possible to kill network by coins destruction. For CAP case PoW reward could be fixed at 5-10 coins forever, this will be enough to make such configuration sustainable.

// Hm... Checked the code, and found no limit. Everything is OK, PoW reward be 10 coins forever. It seems that right thing was made accidentally.  

I lose sight of this sometimes. Prood of stakes primary function is not to help secure the network from hash attacks ect but it does a very good job at that. With caps quick 9 year pow emission model POS will be the primary mechanism for the chain after.

The only reason PPC / NVC use POW at all is because of its efficiency as a initial minting process. The real work will be done By pos in the long run and caps will be a great test and I believe bring valuble insight to the future of the nvc/ ppc blockchain as the initial minting process will end much sooner

At this time I am more concerned about getting the POW cleared up for miners as they are the support for the chain. Also I have planned to remove the hard coded cap of 47433600 as it leaves no room for POS generation which will eventually be the primary method.

Plans are :

Get proof of work on track

Move POS to a model that will be sustainable in the long term as the primary mover of the chain

Thanks for adding the CAPs community

BottleCaps trading & mining pool added to the https://coinex.pw exchange

Looking forward to continue mining this coin and very glad to see the forking issue has been dealt with. Obviously the multiple POS blocks will be reduced overtime and were to be expected (since most individuals have not been POS minting for weeks, the difficulty dropped as a result and coin age continued increasing). The nice thing is we have a group willing to put in the hours required to deal with any issues encountered and willing to ask for help from the community when needed.

This is not a flaw. You're just not so well understood why it was done in this way. Proof-of-Work is only a temporary emission tool here, it's not a protection mechanism. Proof-of-Work should move away as soon as enough coins will be created. It's a Proof-of-Stake design, Proof-of-Stake is not an addition for Proof-of-Work, it's the replacement. If you wish a Proof-of-Work currency, then use Proof-of-Work currency.

P.S. By the way, CAP contains a real flaw. There is no possibility to create more coins if a critical part of stake will be accidentally destroyed. Such PoW reward function is unacceptable for this design, hard-coded emission limit should be removed.

Hmm. Surely it is a flaw in this coin, caused by its method of using PoS and PoW together?
If it has happened before for other coins, and not been corrected, that seems like a flaw.

[Update: 23 of the last 30 blocks found on multipool have been orphaned]

In relation to orphan-losses...

Like I stated a few dozen posts back...

1: The POW diff is real low. Thus, it is easy to find blocks. (Due to orphans killing valids and POS not counting towards diff-adjustments.)
2: There are lots of POS being created, because POS is behind, due to us limiting POS for the last few days.
3: POW has to "reset" work, when a POS or a POW block is found. (That can be changed with two chains, or by forcing the POW to use only POW-hashes.)

Thus, the final result is a cluster-fuck of orphans and "rejects" and work-resetting, causing the rough patch. It will balance-out in time, but it will never be as idea as when it was only POW mining, because the POS is uber-low difficulty and mixing/stacking with the POW chain.

This is a flaw of design of POS, not a flaw in this coin. Other coins, when they were this low, had similar issues. The only resolution is to wait for the hiccup to turn into a burp of relief, or simply recalculate your VALUE of the coins you are mining. (You need to get more money for your fewer coins, so demand more. Just like you would do with 0-orphans and high-diffs that result in the same low volume of coins rewarded.)