I think I know what you're talking about.
3M I think sells a coating like that. I should also ask the printing company. This could really add value to the product.
Topic: [BOUNTY CLOSED] Open Source (CC) Paper Wallet Kit for safe offline coin storage - page 5. (Read 27627 times)
April 17, 2013, 01:25:04 PM
April 17, 2013, 01:20:42 PM
...I wonder if sealing the back with a plain clear plastic sticker (not scratch-off) would help to minimize absorption close to the printed QR?
If the paper itself were water-resistant or hydrophobic, the printed qr codes would take a long time to dry or might not settle into the paper at all, so I have a feeling covering the area front and back with some sort of plastic film after printing the codes would be the only way.
Thoughts?
I remember in art school we used to spray our work with hairspray and it helped prevent smudging and deterred moisture, but I'm not sure how helpful that is lol
If the paper itself were water-resistant or hydrophobic, the printed qr codes would take a long time to dry or might not settle into the paper at all, so I have a feeling covering the area front and back with some sort of plastic film after printing the codes would be the only way.
Thoughts?
I remember in art school we used to spray our work with hairspray and it helped prevent smudging and deterred moisture, but I'm not sure how helpful that is lol
I may not have worded it well, but this is exactly what I was trying to say. I am almost certain there is some kind of plastic film that inkjets could print on. I think that if that plastic could be pre-applied to the private key field of the wallets, people could still print on them and then just apply the plastic/scratch-off covers. I will try to work up a diagram if anyone wants.
April 17, 2013, 01:18:28 PM
Actually, I think Scotchguard would work, but it cannot be flat-packed in an envelope. We could add it to a "tips" section
I will run some light and water tests today. Please standby. Sorry for the delay, but my other project (OpenBitcoinStore) became huge overnight... (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161264.0;all if interested)
REMINDER: Submit designs by end of week.
I will be copying all the submitted designs to a single location and adding a voting widget, so everyone can vote on the best design.
Thanks!
I will run some light and water tests today. Please standby. Sorry for the delay, but my other project (OpenBitcoinStore) became huge overnight... (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161264.0;all if interested)
REMINDER: Submit designs by end of week.
I will be copying all the submitted designs to a single location and adding a voting widget, so everyone can vote on the best design.
Thanks!
April 17, 2013, 12:57:12 PM
Right. And how many people have laser printers now? I think there is a large number that still use inkjets, no? I am concerned about the inkjet ink running if it gets wet. I think that is a solution worth baking into the design from the get-go. We are talking about people using this to safely store their life savings after all.
I absolutely agree with you. As far as what can be done about the paper itself, I think there is very little we (the kit providers) can do. Some paper may absorb water a little less ('tough paper') but inkjet printer inks are all water soluble and, when wet enough, the ink will definitely run. If the front side (printed side) is covered with a clear plastic from the scratch off sticker, I wonder if sealing the back with a plain clear plastic sticker (not scratch-off) would help to minimize absorption close to the printed QR?
If the paper itself were water-resistant or hydrophobic, the printed qr codes would take a long time to dry or might not settle into the paper at all, so I have a feeling covering the area front and back with some sort of plastic film after printing the codes would be the only way.
Thoughts?
I remember in art school we used to spray our work with hairspray and it helped prevent smudging and deterred moisture, but I'm not sure how helpful that is lol
April 17, 2013, 12:31:46 PM
Why not just purchase waterproof tear proof paper and do it on that?
The paper being provided should be fine, but I think the concern is the ink being used by the consumer once they receive their prepared sheets. The user prints QR codes on to the paper at home. You _could_ warn users to use laser printers where possible but I guess it comes down to how much of a ready-out-of-the-box solution you want this to be.
Right. And how many people have laser printers now? I think there is a large number that still use inkjets, no? I am concerned about the inkjet ink running if it gets wet. I think that is a solution worth baking into the design from the get-go. We are talking about people using this to safely store their life savings after all.
April 17, 2013, 12:27:06 PM
The paper being provided should be fine, but I think the concern is the ink being used by the consumer once they receive their prepared sheets. The user prints QR codes on to the paper at home. You _could_ warn users to use laser printers where possible but I guess it comes down to how much of a ready-out-of-the-box solution you want this to be.
April 17, 2013, 12:24:31 PM
Why not just purchase waterproof tear proof paper and do it on that?
April 17, 2013, 12:07:06 PM
Have you experimented to make sure you can't use a bright laser pen or other high intensity light source to transmit enough light through the scratch-off material to see (scan) the QR code on the other side?
I've been working on a folded-style paper wallet and someone suggested this might be a problem. I was skeptical, but after some experiments I was absolutely able to reveal some details that I believed would be obfuscated behind multiple layers of paper & ink.
The thing I'm especially interested in re: the scratch-off stickers is how they might protect against water damage when the keys are printed using an inkjet printer. Have you run some tests in that regard, seeing how a scratch-off covered inkjet-printed QR code survives when wet?
Here are the fairly horrifying results from my own experiments to this end:
I've been working on a folded-style paper wallet and someone suggested this might be a problem. I was skeptical, but after some experiments I was absolutely able to reveal some details that I believed would be obfuscated behind multiple layers of paper & ink.
The thing I'm especially interested in re: the scratch-off stickers is how they might protect against water damage when the keys are printed using an inkjet printer. Have you run some tests in that regard, seeing how a scratch-off covered inkjet-printed QR code survives when wet?
Here are the fairly horrifying results from my own experiments to this end:
Have there been any ideas on dealing with these issues? Is it possible to have the printing company laminate a plastic printing medium for the private keys that would then be waterproofed once the scratch-offs are applied? I am thinking private key sandwiched between two plastic layers.
If it is possible to have a waterproof/resistant printing laminate applied, could there be a black and white security pattern behind it to help prevent candling? I suppose this would require a little bit of tweaking to the original design...
April 17, 2013, 11:27:31 AM
Aantonop,
Any tests/results yet to see whether or not the scratch-off seal on heavy stock is susceptible to "candling", or if they help with waterproofing? I'm especially curious to know if these stickers are an effective light-guard.
Any tests/results yet to see whether or not the scratch-off seal on heavy stock is susceptible to "candling", or if they help with waterproofing? I'm especially curious to know if these stickers are an effective light-guard.
April 17, 2013, 10:29:10 AM
My work...
April 17, 2013, 08:58:40 AM
good idea !
I love the design layout.
I love the design layout.
April 17, 2013, 01:02:04 AM
Don't beat yourself up. Key management is hard.
I've seen it happen on reddit three times. I scanned QR codes of one of the notes on another post on reddit, just to see if it was possible but I didn't take the balance, I warned the OP.
Good luck!
I've seen it happen on reddit three times. I scanned QR codes of one of the notes on another post on reddit, just to see if it was possible but I didn't take the balance, I warned the OP.
Good luck!
April 17, 2013, 12:58:22 AM
Hey everyone, I did something REALLLLLY foolish:
You know those mockups I posted of my design in this thread? The QR codes contained a live public address AND private key with a small balance (.026 BTC) -- part of an unrelated competition I was running. Dumb dumb dumb...
On April 11 the wallet was swiped before the competition even began:
https://blockchain.info/address/1LMKzdqhQ4LhHy5GGhT8BcG3HHpBTqAqbt
If you're reading this thread and you swiped the wallet by cleverly reading the QR code off of the mockups I posted to this thread, would you please please let me know? You can ping me at [email protected]. This would be much more reassuring than the alternative explanation I have which is that my computer or internet connection was hacked.
In fact, if you can prove you were the person who emptied the wallet, I'll gladly send you *another* .026 BTC for your trouble.
Thanks,
- Your friendly village idiot
You know those mockups I posted of my design in this thread? The QR codes contained a live public address AND private key with a small balance (.026 BTC) -- part of an unrelated competition I was running. Dumb dumb dumb...
On April 11 the wallet was swiped before the competition even began:
https://blockchain.info/address/1LMKzdqhQ4LhHy5GGhT8BcG3HHpBTqAqbt
If you're reading this thread and you swiped the wallet by cleverly reading the QR code off of the mockups I posted to this thread, would you please please let me know? You can ping me at [email protected]. This would be much more reassuring than the alternative explanation I have which is that my computer or internet connection was hacked.
In fact, if you can prove you were the person who emptied the wallet, I'll gladly send you *another* .026 BTC for your trouble.
Thanks,
- Your friendly village idiot
April 12, 2013, 10:26:40 PM
https://github.com/openpaperwallet/openpaperwallet
OpenPaperWallet repo has been moved to its own organization.
Please follow/star/fork as you need. Pull requests for designs/code are now welcome!
Anyone interested in co-admin of the repo, let me know to add you.
Let's start filling it up!
April 12, 2013, 09:33:02 PM
I just received the first set of quotes from the printers:
Multi-Part
1,000 Digital Color, 8.5 x 11 Bright White 80# Mohawk Color Copy 98 Cover
28.76, digitally printed on 2 sides
Perforation 3 horizontal by 1 vertical
$1,182.75 + Tax
5,000 Digital Color, 8.5 x 11 Bright White 80# Mohawk Color Copy 98 Cover
28.76, digitally printed on 2 sides
Perforation 3 horizontal by 1 vertical
$4,767.00 + Tax
Cost basis:
1 sheet (4 notes) = ~ $0.95 - $1.18
A paper wallet kit (10 sheets, 40 notes) = ~ $9.50 - $11.8 (wholesale)
120 stickers = ~ $4.8
Misc sheets, envelope = ~ $2
Total = ~ $17 wholesale for 40 paper wallet kit, at first production run.
I think I can get it down to about $13 with a bit of haggling and a larger order of each component. That would allow a retail of $18-$25 per kit, with a reasonable profit.
Comments? Thoughts?
Multi-Part
1,000 Digital Color, 8.5 x 11 Bright White 80# Mohawk Color Copy 98 Cover
28.76, digitally printed on 2 sides
Perforation 3 horizontal by 1 vertical
$1,182.75 + Tax
5,000 Digital Color, 8.5 x 11 Bright White 80# Mohawk Color Copy 98 Cover
28.76, digitally printed on 2 sides
Perforation 3 horizontal by 1 vertical
$4,767.00 + Tax
Cost basis:
1 sheet (4 notes) = ~ $0.95 - $1.18
A paper wallet kit (10 sheets, 40 notes) = ~ $9.50 - $11.8 (wholesale)
120 stickers = ~ $4.8
Misc sheets, envelope = ~ $2
Total = ~ $17 wholesale for 40 paper wallet kit, at first production run.
I think I can get it down to about $13 with a bit of haggling and a larger order of each component. That would allow a retail of $18-$25 per kit, with a reasonable profit.
Comments? Thoughts?
April 12, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
To fix the printer problems wouldn't it be a great idea to generate pdf files. The only thing the user needs to do is to generate the page and print it at 100% and centered.
You could supply bills like this.
With these you can then print a test bills, to see what offset you need to put into the software. Add your offset into the pdf generator and it would supply the correct pdf to be printed with your own printer.
You could supply bills like this.
With these you can then print a test bills, to see what offset you need to put into the software. Add your offset into the pdf generator and it would supply the correct pdf to be printed with your own printer.
Agreed, if we can build a tool that forces the printer to disable scaling to fit paper size, it should be manageable once the user has tested a few of the calibration sheets out. If for whatever reason the printer creates an offset, the tool should allow the user to adjust the x and y position and try again.
April 12, 2013, 02:19:19 PM
That would be *awesome*. I've had the same wish. I wonder if something like this would work. http://jspdf.com
I'm a little concerned about using js in a tool because if the js is used locally, some browsers require you to go into settings to allow local access (we could make a note about this in the instructions though), and hosting the PDF generator online is also a bad idea because then the QR codes etc are being transmitted which is something we wanted to avoid.
April 12, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
To fix the printer problems wouldn't it be a great idea to generate pdf files.
That would be *awesome*. I've had the same wish. I wonder if something like this would work. http://jspdf.com
April 12, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
If so my idea is that in your high-end "pro" kit you could also include a little plastic stamper (shortrun 3D printing) that would let you press a subtle bitcoin symbol onto the scratcher. I'm guessing there's no point in trying with ink since the scratcher material is probably some kind of wax/non-inkable surface.
It will be a lot easier to simply order custom scratch-offs, pre-printed at the factory.
They come in a roll, like a tape dispenser or a roll of stamps. I will cut strips of 10 stickers and pack 5 of the strips in each kit.
Love the idea of custom stickers for the pro kit. It will be a lot easier to do as a pre-printed order, I will share my supplier info.
Finally, we can also add a custom emboss, foil, raised ink or watermark to the paper (for added cost) at the printing shop.
I will be getting the first printing quotes early next week, I've already sent the specs to three printers. I'll let you know as soon as I have a better idea of the possibilities and costs.
April 12, 2013, 11:30:40 AM
Glad you like it. I used the white space included for in the template so will keep it this way for now. But shouldn't be a problem to do these little edit if requested.
To fix the printer problems wouldn't it be a great idea to generate pdf files. The only thing the user needs to do is to generate the page and print it at 100% and centered.
You could supply bills like this.
With these you can then print a test bills, to see what offset you need to put into the software. Add your offset into the pdf generator and it would supply the correct pdf to be printed with your own printer.
To fix the printer problems wouldn't it be a great idea to generate pdf files. The only thing the user needs to do is to generate the page and print it at 100% and centered.
You could supply bills like this.
With these you can then print a test bills, to see what offset you need to put into the software. Add your offset into the pdf generator and it would supply the correct pdf to be printed with your own printer.
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