if you reach your mining cap, but there are no other miners, where block reward would go?
If there is no miners, the block chain will stop. If there are miners, the reward goes to club members and club leader. 
Topic: [BOUNTY] 🔥🔥WINNER-GETS-ALL / PROOF-OF-TRANSACTION CONSENSUS DEBATE BOUNTY!🔥🔥 - page 2. (Read 4117 times)
September 18, 2018, 07:29:31 AM
September 18, 2018, 06:42:11 AM
What if malicious club leaders set up 0 rewards for themselves effectively luring enough people to execute attack on chain with purpose of destroying chain? It doesn't require a lot to run a node so this type of attack might be lucrative for competing chains to execute.
Also what stops rich holders sending billions of transactions between their own addresses ammasing mining power of their wallets?
We have discussed these attack on long paragraph in whitepaper, please check out. Thanks. Also what stops rich holders sending billions of transactions between their own addresses ammasing mining power of their wallets?
But it kinda sprung another question. Its unrealistic but anyway, if you reach your mining cap, but there are no other miners, where block reward would go?
September 18, 2018, 04:58:32 AM
What if malicious club leaders set up 0 rewards for themselves effectively luring enough people to execute attack on chain with purpose of destroying chain? It doesn't require a lot to run a node so this type of attack might be lucrative for competing chains to execute.
Also what stops rich holders sending billions of transactions between their own addresses ammasing mining power of their wallets?
We have discussed these attack on long paragraph in whitepaper, please check out. Thanks. Also what stops rich holders sending billions of transactions between their own addresses ammasing mining power of their wallets?
September 18, 2018, 04:43:56 AM
What if malicious club leaders set up 0 rewards for themselves effectively luring enough people to execute attack on chain with purpose of destroying chain? It doesn't require a lot to run a node so this type of attack might be lucrative for competing chains to execute.
Also what stops rich holders sending billions of transactions between their own addresses ammasing mining power of their wallets?
Also what stops rich holders sending billions of transactions between their own addresses ammasing mining power of their wallets?
September 17, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
The coin distribution data need to be shown on website, good idea. I shall do that.
Due to the fact that in the world of cryptocurrency cases of fraud are frequent, the openness of the project reduces this risk to the investor. So auditing a smart contract on the ethereum platform, allows you to track the amount of collected funds and the address of their storage during the ICO. But since you use TAU-X to raise funds, it may be a great step towards transparency of the project (although many will still have questions about the reliability of the information provided on the site and how to check it) September 17, 2018, 08:45:42 AM
I would also like to know how TAU is protected against the following hypothetical attacks:
Greedy Flock Problem
I notice you have now changed the whitepaper to say that harvest power is now determined by the cumulative transaction fee paid in a pre-defined window. However, in the early days of the TAU network, this can easily be exploited by a determined individual to gain majority control over the block rewards. For example, if there a total of 10 harvest clubs existing of equal size (in terms of harvest power per unit time), then we would expect the rewards distributed to each of these clubs to be approximately equal. However, if one of these clubs suddenly offers a large incentive for users to switch (the early bird), then this will lead to a massive reduction in number of harvest clubs as everybody flocks to the single incentivized club. This would essentially easily allow one relatively high net worth individual to take over the entire network by incentivizing harvest club switching.
> Being a club leader is a profitable business in TAU, so someone try to recruite customers is possible. However there is competition to balance such concentration, TAU foundation will maintain 25% power in early stage such as now.
False Incentives
You mentioned previously that some harvest clubs would profit more on reputation rather than the transaction fees, which might actually lead them to incentivize club members by taking a loss. However, this leads them open to being sniped by other malicious groups which offer false incentives to get new members, e.g. $100 BTC per member, then chooses to ignore signal transactions to lock them in. If properly designed, this scam could lead to the creation of high harvest power clubs which members cannot escape from easily, whilst the club leader takes the entire reward.
Potential Resolution: Terms of the harvest club should be displayed to club members via a signal transaction from the club leader. This signal transaction would include data pertaining to the harvest reward schedule offered by the club.
> There shall be a Yelp listing to rate those club leaders.
The Bait and Switch
Under the new cumulative fee window system, there is an additional possible attack where a harvest club leader can achieve almost entire monopoly over the harvest rewards. Imagine a scenario where a successful harvest club manages to achieve among the highest cumulative fee, therefore achieving a sizeable fraction of future rewards. The club leader can then simply claim that the harvest club is shutting down, leading everybody to leave the club to join another. However, this was simply a bait, once all the club members have left, the club leader will then be in full control over the club, and hence be the sole beneficiary of the block rewards.
Potential Resolution: Implement a voting system to force change the harvest club leader.
> there is one tech detail, when member leaves the club, they will bring away the portion of future reward. So when leader cuts off all connections, it gets nothing.
Overall, I feel like the signal transaction concept is under utilized. Signal transactions should also be used to carry information relating to the parameters of the harvest club to its members and notify them of any changes. It would also be a good idea to allow people to set a timer on their harvest power delegation, either by automatically sending another signal transaction on X data (via the wallet), or by including a self-destruct parameter in the signal itself.
> signal transaction is a powerful tool, we are still in exploration.
Identification vulnerability
I suspect that the signal transaction feature, though quite useful for the purposes of TAU, will also enable global blockchain analysis companies to easily track and identify relationships between wallet holders, as signal transactions can be considered a more intimate transaction than a standard one, therefore highlighting friendships, business relationships and partnerships, rather than commerce transactions. I suspect public visibility of signal transactions on the blockchain will eventually lead to a much more complete database of ID/Wallet holders compared to other similar projects such as Bitcoin. I think this can be resolved by ommitting one-half of the wallet details on the blockchain (or possibly both halves).
> TAU applys every wiring changing address for sender, this will be much relieved.
Also, there are issues whereby the harvest club leader can force its club members to collude with it for nefarious purposes by holding the block rewards hostage. For this reason I think a voting system is definitely necessary.
> AGREE
Greedy Flock Problem
I notice you have now changed the whitepaper to say that harvest power is now determined by the cumulative transaction fee paid in a pre-defined window. However, in the early days of the TAU network, this can easily be exploited by a determined individual to gain majority control over the block rewards. For example, if there a total of 10 harvest clubs existing of equal size (in terms of harvest power per unit time), then we would expect the rewards distributed to each of these clubs to be approximately equal. However, if one of these clubs suddenly offers a large incentive for users to switch (the early bird), then this will lead to a massive reduction in number of harvest clubs as everybody flocks to the single incentivized club. This would essentially easily allow one relatively high net worth individual to take over the entire network by incentivizing harvest club switching.
> Being a club leader is a profitable business in TAU, so someone try to recruite customers is possible. However there is competition to balance such concentration, TAU foundation will maintain 25% power in early stage such as now.
False Incentives
You mentioned previously that some harvest clubs would profit more on reputation rather than the transaction fees, which might actually lead them to incentivize club members by taking a loss. However, this leads them open to being sniped by other malicious groups which offer false incentives to get new members, e.g. $100 BTC per member, then chooses to ignore signal transactions to lock them in. If properly designed, this scam could lead to the creation of high harvest power clubs which members cannot escape from easily, whilst the club leader takes the entire reward.
Potential Resolution: Terms of the harvest club should be displayed to club members via a signal transaction from the club leader. This signal transaction would include data pertaining to the harvest reward schedule offered by the club.
> There shall be a Yelp listing to rate those club leaders.
The Bait and Switch
Under the new cumulative fee window system, there is an additional possible attack where a harvest club leader can achieve almost entire monopoly over the harvest rewards. Imagine a scenario where a successful harvest club manages to achieve among the highest cumulative fee, therefore achieving a sizeable fraction of future rewards. The club leader can then simply claim that the harvest club is shutting down, leading everybody to leave the club to join another. However, this was simply a bait, once all the club members have left, the club leader will then be in full control over the club, and hence be the sole beneficiary of the block rewards.
Potential Resolution: Implement a voting system to force change the harvest club leader.
> there is one tech detail, when member leaves the club, they will bring away the portion of future reward. So when leader cuts off all connections, it gets nothing.
Overall, I feel like the signal transaction concept is under utilized. Signal transactions should also be used to carry information relating to the parameters of the harvest club to its members and notify them of any changes. It would also be a good idea to allow people to set a timer on their harvest power delegation, either by automatically sending another signal transaction on X data (via the wallet), or by including a self-destruct parameter in the signal itself.
> signal transaction is a powerful tool, we are still in exploration.
Identification vulnerability
I suspect that the signal transaction feature, though quite useful for the purposes of TAU, will also enable global blockchain analysis companies to easily track and identify relationships between wallet holders, as signal transactions can be considered a more intimate transaction than a standard one, therefore highlighting friendships, business relationships and partnerships, rather than commerce transactions. I suspect public visibility of signal transactions on the blockchain will eventually lead to a much more complete database of ID/Wallet holders compared to other similar projects such as Bitcoin. I think this can be resolved by ommitting one-half of the wallet details on the blockchain (or possibly both halves).
> TAU applys every wiring changing address for sender, this will be much relieved.
Also, there are issues whereby the harvest club leader can force its club members to collude with it for nefarious purposes by holding the block rewards hostage. For this reason I think a voting system is definitely necessary.
> AGREE
September 17, 2018, 12:11:24 AM
Hello is it okay if the token holder of taucoin will only be bounty hunters? I know you will introduce tau x to introduce liquidity and investors can acquire token through the pool. But ICO will commence on October 18 right? Is it too early to release the exchanger without conducting ICO first? Can you stipulate the advantage of releasing it prior to ICO? Or you will relay all funds accumulation through private or sandbox investments? Sorry but these questions are really important to me to know, hopefully you can feedback with my inquiry thank you.
We decide no longer do ico and stay as community coin. Please check my writing on this. https://medium.com/@davidwu_30530/tau-exchange-tau-x-built-for-the-community-3c33b8874d8?source=linkShare-24d178ec058f-1537160997
September 16, 2018, 11:47:40 PM
Greedy Flock Problem
False Incentives
Those attacks are almost impossible by the current Design ..,False Incentives
As the harvest clubs can increase their harvest power by increasing their number of members it will be almost balanced forever as more and more people joining a specific club increasing it's harvest power to take over the most incentives .,
that incentive will be divided into more people leading to equilibrium state at the end of the day
Let's say we have a greedy club leader having 25% of all signals and total number of addresses that can provide signals are 400k addresses ,
100k Signal TXs / 100k club member ., so if they have 25% of all network votes the rewards will be payed to the club members automatically and equally so that will make the rewards almost equal to another club which owns 1% of signals and having 1% of the rewards .
The Bait and Switch
Again after people switch from the club to another the incentive which is payed to the club leader will be decreased as his number of signals will decrease at the same time the other clubs's signals will increase leading again to the point where he only gets what he deserves
Identification vulnerability
Nope !!People won't give a potato who is the club owner as long as he pays *not even manually * And that voting system is a already a core feature of TAU .
and that timer and self destruct is a good idea TBH
Although the current system isn't flawless and have room for some manipulations with TX spam and mass addresses owners .. all that can be fixed if a number of TAUs will be locked for a certain amount of blocks for each new address and for each created TX "not forever as XRP as that's called theft
"and will still allow painless micro-payments .Also the harvest power should be automatically decreased if the node isn't always online or under-performing .
September 16, 2018, 10:36:12 PM
I would also like to know how TAU is protected against the following hypothetical attacks:...
Amazing analysis. We are digesting hard now, and thanks for the potential solution and the voting system upgrade, which is our big next step. September 16, 2018, 03:38:26 PM
I would also like to know how TAU is protected against the following hypothetical attacks:
Greedy Flock Problem
I notice you have now changed the whitepaper to say that harvest power is now determined by the cumulative transaction fee paid in a pre-defined window. However, in the early days of the TAU network, this can easily be exploited by a determined individual to gain majority control over the block rewards. For example, if there a total of 10 harvest clubs existing of equal size (in terms of harvest power per unit time), then we would expect the rewards distributed to each of these clubs to be approximately equal. However, if one of these clubs suddenly offers a large incentive for users to switch (the early bird), then this will lead to a massive reduction in number of harvest clubs as everybody flocks to the single incentivized club. This would essentially easily allow one relatively high net worth individual to take over the entire network by incentivizing harvest club switching.
False Incentives
You mentioned previously that some harvest clubs would profit more on reputation rather than the transaction fees, which might actually lead them to incentivize club members by taking a loss. However, this leads them open to being sniped by other malicious groups which offer false incentives to get new members, e.g. $100 BTC per member, then chooses to ignore signal transactions to lock them in. If properly designed, this scam could lead to the creation of high harvest power clubs which members cannot escape from easily, whilst the club leader takes the entire reward.
Potential Resolution: Terms of the harvest club should be displayed to club members via a signal transaction from the club leader. This signal transaction would include data pertaining to the harvest reward schedule offered by the club.
The Bait and Switch
Under the new cumulative fee window system, there is an additional possible attack where a harvest club leader can achieve almost entire monopoly over the harvest rewards. Imagine a scenario where a successful harvest club manages to achieve among the highest cumulative fee, therefore achieving a sizeable fraction of future rewards. The club leader can then simply claim that the harvest club is shutting down, leading everybody to leave the club to join another. However, this was simply a bait, once all the club members have left, the club leader will then be in full control over the club, and hence be the sole beneficiary of the block rewards.
Potential Resolution: Implement a voting system to force change the harvest club leader.
Overall, I feel like the signal transaction concept is under utilized. Signal transactions should also be used to carry information relating to the parameters of the harvest club to its members and notify them of any changes. It would also be a good idea to allow people to set a timer on their harvest power delegation, either by automatically sending another signal transaction on X data (via the wallet), or by including a self-destruct parameter in the signal itself.
Identification vulnerability
I suspect that the signal transaction feature, though quite useful for the purposes of TAU, will also enable global blockchain analysis companies to easily track and identify relationships between wallet holders, as signal transactions can be considered a more intimate transaction than a standard one, therefore highlighting friendships, business relationships and partnerships, rather than commerce transactions. I suspect public visibility of signal transactions on the blockchain will eventually lead to a much more complete database of ID/Wallet holders compared to other similar projects such as Bitcoin. I think this can be resolved by ommitting one-half of the wallet details on the blockchain (or possibly both halves).
Also, there are issues whereby the harvest club leader can force its club members to collude with it for nefarious purposes by holding the block rewards hostage. For this reason I think a voting system is definitely necessary.
Greedy Flock Problem
I notice you have now changed the whitepaper to say that harvest power is now determined by the cumulative transaction fee paid in a pre-defined window. However, in the early days of the TAU network, this can easily be exploited by a determined individual to gain majority control over the block rewards. For example, if there a total of 10 harvest clubs existing of equal size (in terms of harvest power per unit time), then we would expect the rewards distributed to each of these clubs to be approximately equal. However, if one of these clubs suddenly offers a large incentive for users to switch (the early bird), then this will lead to a massive reduction in number of harvest clubs as everybody flocks to the single incentivized club. This would essentially easily allow one relatively high net worth individual to take over the entire network by incentivizing harvest club switching.
False Incentives
You mentioned previously that some harvest clubs would profit more on reputation rather than the transaction fees, which might actually lead them to incentivize club members by taking a loss. However, this leads them open to being sniped by other malicious groups which offer false incentives to get new members, e.g. $100 BTC per member, then chooses to ignore signal transactions to lock them in. If properly designed, this scam could lead to the creation of high harvest power clubs which members cannot escape from easily, whilst the club leader takes the entire reward.
Potential Resolution: Terms of the harvest club should be displayed to club members via a signal transaction from the club leader. This signal transaction would include data pertaining to the harvest reward schedule offered by the club.
The Bait and Switch
Under the new cumulative fee window system, there is an additional possible attack where a harvest club leader can achieve almost entire monopoly over the harvest rewards. Imagine a scenario where a successful harvest club manages to achieve among the highest cumulative fee, therefore achieving a sizeable fraction of future rewards. The club leader can then simply claim that the harvest club is shutting down, leading everybody to leave the club to join another. However, this was simply a bait, once all the club members have left, the club leader will then be in full control over the club, and hence be the sole beneficiary of the block rewards.
Potential Resolution: Implement a voting system to force change the harvest club leader.
Overall, I feel like the signal transaction concept is under utilized. Signal transactions should also be used to carry information relating to the parameters of the harvest club to its members and notify them of any changes. It would also be a good idea to allow people to set a timer on their harvest power delegation, either by automatically sending another signal transaction on X data (via the wallet), or by including a self-destruct parameter in the signal itself.
Identification vulnerability
I suspect that the signal transaction feature, though quite useful for the purposes of TAU, will also enable global blockchain analysis companies to easily track and identify relationships between wallet holders, as signal transactions can be considered a more intimate transaction than a standard one, therefore highlighting friendships, business relationships and partnerships, rather than commerce transactions. I suspect public visibility of signal transactions on the blockchain will eventually lead to a much more complete database of ID/Wallet holders compared to other similar projects such as Bitcoin. I think this can be resolved by ommitting one-half of the wallet details on the blockchain (or possibly both halves).
Also, there are issues whereby the harvest club leader can force its club members to collude with it for nefarious purposes by holding the block rewards hostage. For this reason I think a voting system is definitely necessary.
September 16, 2018, 05:28:27 AM
What do you mean distribution? Some bounty rewards have been distributed already. I think they have to do a lot of distributions to keep transactions running.
create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.
Distribution is through bounty and tau-x for long time. Getting more people taucoins is important. create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.
We are not burning coins.
It's just one of the suggestions but you have to create some system to pour in more transactions. Won't harm to introduce creative marketing stuff that can be in place permanently. Hope I sound right
September 15, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
What do you mean distribution? Some bounty rewards have been distributed already. I think they have to do a lot of distributions to keep transactions running.
create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.
Distribution is through bounty and tau-x for long time. Getting more people taucoins is important. create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.
We are not burning coins.
September 15, 2018, 09:43:39 PM
TAU Exchange (TAU-X) built for the community
TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.
Maybe I'm in a lot of hurry, while the wallet is being developed for TAU storage, what additional functionality is planned to use? Will it be possible to store other tokens on my wallet? (then the wallet would be an independent product from the implementation of the project itself) Will atomic swaps be maintained? (can TAU-X idea help to do this?) Can be added gate for communication with traditional currencies? etcTAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.
True atomic swap need to be supported by both chain such as tau and bitcoin, this will take time. Web wallet swap is always supported, maybe extent to app wallet. We currently do not plan to add traditional fiat in wallet, that cause too much kyc/aml issue.
September 15, 2018, 09:40:02 PM
It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.
So, it turns out you decided to completely remove the idea of carrying out the program ico, replacing it with an exchanger TAU-X. Then it turns out that the final terms for the distribution of tokens are completely absent. Is that right? Again a question arises that is especially important for potential investors: how to track how many tokens have already been sold and how much money has the project collected? At this moment, the project is fully funded by team, not yet receive external money. The coin distribution data need to be shown on website, good idea. I shall do that.
September 15, 2018, 03:43:00 PM
It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.
So, it turns out you decided to completely remove the idea of carrying out the program ico, replacing it with an exchanger TAU-X. Then it turns out that the final terms for the distribution of tokens are completely absent. Is that right? Again a question arises that is especially important for potential investors: how to track how many tokens have already been sold and how much money has the project collected? What do you mean distribution? Some bounty rewards have been distributed already. I think they have to do a lot of distributions to keep transactions running.
To add i'm not sure if i'm in the right thread but anyone is open for any opposition. That this project should create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.
September 15, 2018, 06:02:46 AM
TAU Exchange (TAU-X) built for the community
TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.
Maybe I'm in a lot of hurry, while the wallet is being developed for TAU storage, what additional functionality is planned to use? Will it be possible to store other tokens on my wallet? (then the wallet would be an independent product from the implementation of the project itself) Will atomic swaps be maintained? (can TAU-X idea help to do this?) Can be added gate for communication with traditional currencies? etc TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.
September 15, 2018, 05:44:29 AM
It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.
So, it turns out you decided to completely remove the idea of carrying out the program ico, replacing it with an exchanger TAU-X. Then it turns out that the final terms for the distribution of tokens are completely absent. Is that right? Again a question arises that is especially important for potential investors: how to track how many tokens have already been sold and how much money has the project collected? September 14, 2018, 05:44:32 PM
Why not every 628 blocks (tau day) instead of 360. Tau is radian not degree related!
What is a tau day? September 14, 2018, 05:04:12 PM
Why not every 628 blocks (tau day) instead of 360. Tau is radian not degree related!
September 13, 2018, 03:39:41 AM
TAU Exchange (TAU-X) built for the community
TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.
It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.
I believe the most important fact for a coin to be successful is the community satisfaction. Especially many community members collect coins through bounty working program like helping translating, you-tubing and promotion. Rather than ICO, Tau foundation chose to operate TAU-X and invite all members to participate from day one. In each swap, the foundation only puts 60,000 TAUs into the pool and looks forward to seeing community to put much more to exchange available BTCs.
TAU-X starts supporting BTC/TAU exchange with potential to add more exchange pairs. In total TAU coins, 82% is allocated to bounty programs and exchange sale. While bounty programs reduces entry barrier for common people obtain TAUs, TAU-X program increases liquidity for existing TAU currency holders and provides a fair investment option for BTC holders. Everyone can access TAU-X from their web wallet.
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