brazil sanctioned law that taxes online betting in the country - page 2.

robelneo

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

That's how a government works they want you to share what you have, not only on winnings, on losses on casinos but also from all taxable profit and sales or everything where you are making a profit, they don't care about your losses they only care about your gains.

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What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

Your government only taxes you here in our country, the government manages the casinos and many profitable gambling platforms, they get all the taxes and they all get the profits.

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Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

Can we do something about it, can we complain, I'm ok with it as long as the profit and all the taxes are being used for the welfare of the citizens, here in our country corruption is so rampant that you have a hard time accepting all these taxes.

mindrust

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this?

That's always been the case with the governments. Every business owner has that hidden special(!) partner that collects one third of every penny you make and don't give a shit about what you lose, the government. Government thugs come to collect their extortion money every year if you made any profits. They don't care what happens to you if you went bankrupt or dying from hunger. Like I said, this is not even a fair partnership. It is a privileged partnership.

You are not alone, every business in the world suffers from the same taxation rules.

The bad news is, this current system doesn't look like it is going to change any time soon.

Distinctin

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Quote from: Agbamoni on March 25, 2024, 06:12:42 AM

Quote from: Ever-young on March 22, 2024, 03:09:12 PM

Quote from: SeaCoinCollector. on March 22, 2024, 02:52:25 AM

Although the government aims to increase the legal security and revenue, it seems unfair that bettors are taxed on their winnings without consideration for their losses. It's also concerning that tax applies regardless of the size of winnings. The government should be balance and have fair taxation policies.

I completely agree with you on this, Mate. Taxing bettors on their profits while ignoring their losses can be extremely unjust, and it is not a system that fosters fairness or equity. It appears that the government is setting individuals up for failure by taxing them regardless of the magnitude of their wins. I believe there are several other possible solutions to this problem, such as a system in which losses can be subtracted from gains before taxes are imposed.

I disagree with you. The government done care if you lose or win in gambling, they have given a tax on betting, and it will stand. It is left for the gambler to choose if he is to quit or continue if he can't afford those taxes. There is no difference on those on putting taxes on people with kiosk shops and trucking businesses to casino sites. They don't earn make much money from the business, but they pay their taxes whether they make profit, or they make loses.

You can't compare to legit business to gambling as they are exactly different.

When you are running a business, the success rate is high or say most of the people doing business are profitable but would only differ on profit since some are so blessed that they were able to grow their company overtime. However, gambling is quite different as we don't treat it as a business, in fact, most of us gamblers are losing money which makes casino being so profitable, so taxing our winning but neglecting our losses is just unfair to me, government are not anymore doing their job which is to server what's good for the people as gamblers are also peopel which has the right.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

That's really how it goes with the government. If it's about gains, they're are there whether it's from gambling or any other source. What you have to do is to just adjust and you can't do anything with that policy imposed by the government because that's how they always be, they are there with our gains but if it's about our losses, you can't take anything on them. The taxes are increased and the same goes for income taxes which can be said with the gambling winnings. Taxes are the blood line of a country's economy and sadly, we don't like it if the government is corrupt or from a developing country which is known that the people doesn't really benefit from the taxation that they're getting from their own people. So, for you to accept this matter is to maximize any benefit that you are eligible from the government.

Agbamoni

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Quote from: Ever-young on March 22, 2024, 03:09:12 PM

Quote from: SeaCoinCollector. on March 22, 2024, 02:52:25 AM

Although the government aims to increase the legal security and revenue, it seems unfair that bettors are taxed on their winnings without consideration for their losses. It's also concerning that tax applies regardless of the size of winnings. The government should be balance and have fair taxation policies.

I completely agree with you on this, Mate. Taxing bettors on their profits while ignoring their losses can be extremely unjust, and it is not a system that fosters fairness or equity. It appears that the government is setting individuals up for failure by taxing them regardless of the magnitude of their wins. I believe there are several other possible solutions to this problem, such as a system in which losses can be subtracted from gains before taxes are imposed.

I disagree with you. The government done care if you lose or win in gambling, they have given a tax on betting, and it will stand. It is left for the gambler to choose if he is to quit or continue if he can't afford those taxes. There is no difference on those on putting taxes on people with kiosk shops and trucking businesses to casino sites. They don't earn make much money from the business, but they pay their taxes whether they make profit, or they make loses.

kotajikikox

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

Because you are still lucky being allowed to gamble because the government can banned gambling in your place.

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What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

there are regulation in my country but this is not the same as what your government is doing yet we are not taxed in online gambling(NOT YET) because now that so much online gambling platform is coming here and there then for sure sooner there will be taxes .

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Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

this is not alternative but a legit collection .

swogerino

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Since last year, here in my country (brazil), it has been discussed by the senate and from what I researched, in 2024/jan the law came into force that taxes bets of any nature involving online and physical bets. (link)

The purpose of the law is to increase legal security in the betting sector in Brazil, (taxing revenue from bettors for the government? LOL)

In nutshell: bettors will have to pay 15% on the winnings received from any bets, regardless of whether the reward is small or large, and companies will have to pay 12% on revenue.

This is for physical bets or bets made online.

Lula (thief corrupt president) vetoed income tax for winnings from bets of up to R$2112 (~425 USD) per month.

The funny thing is that he didn't take into account the loss that bettors have before calculating the tax (that's a lot of bullshit).

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

Nothing new here as many other countries follow the same logic as they tax only the winnings.This law is implemented where I live from a long time now and this is not a developed country although it sells itself as a working to be a developed one.There is one huge difference though compared to Brazil,in here only amounts of 10.000 dollars and up are taxed and they tax it at 10% which is still a big amount to be taxed.

angrybirdy

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Quote from: bittraffic on March 22, 2024, 03:12:43 PM

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

15% is too much for small-time bettors. They know for the fact it's an unfair number.
When it gets tougher the government will really exercise its laws to make money. But this would also mean that your government will allow more casinos built in your cities right? Your president better have plans for those who get addicted.

From what I heard Lula is a populist president who won by landslide so I guess the majority of the people in Brazil agree with his laws.

there is nothing wrong with paying taxes especially since people are making money here, but just like you said, the 15% tax they will impose is too much especially if a person only gambles once and the amount of money they will use in gambling is not that much. There are also good sides to what they will do, maybe in this way the possibility of addiction will be lessened for a person because if the tax is that high, some of the people will be forced to stop gambling, depending on the person's behavior and the level of its addiction. I just hope that the taxes they get from the players go to the right place because nowadays, there are many government employees who have no fear of the law and are doing face-to-face corruption.

Hewlet

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

it should have been a different ball game if they hard taxes both your losses or wins both taxing your wins alone puts all the gamblers is a major disadvantage because it literally means that your average win is still to your disadvantage because after loosing so many games and then a win that's to be a sort of compensation for all the ones you've lost now have to be shortened by the government.

That's the issue with the over regulatory nature of any system that's subject to government's control. They always feel that they can will everything to whatever angle they wish to which is a major problem. Should betting become a source of revenue for the government? It's only a clueless government that lacks what to put her attention into that will be after gamblers earnings. In my country, they've made several statements in the house of senate to bring out laws that will regulate the rate of decentralized gambling but it hasn't worked so far. The only thing they've been able to do which is not a big deal for me is regulate the age range of individuals that are old enough to engage in gambling.

stadus

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Quote from: PX-Z on March 23, 2024, 03:41:20 AM

Quote from: acroman08 on March 21, 2024, 06:59:28 PM

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

In nutshell: bettors will have to pay 15% on the winnings received from any bets, regardless of whether the reward is small or large, and companies will have to pay 12% on revenue.

It's fucked up that people who gamble need to pay 15% if they won but casino companies only need to pay 12%. though casino revenue is big it still doesn't change the fact that they will still charge higher to their average citizen compare to the companies. it is quite sad.

Haha. Sounds very government to me.

To OP is the winning bet is automatically taxed on the gambling platform like deducted win receive by the gambler or individual gamblers will need to declare this winning on their internal revenue office? Because if this is not automatically taxed, then gamblers will just ignore it. There are many loopholes to avoid this actually especially if using a crypto-related casinos.

They make this rules, I'm sure they'll put some controls here to ensure that people will be paying. They need to get that 15% no matter what, but if they can't implement that well, it will only be useless. If they really want to ensure a collection of tax from the winning bettors, they should consider making the casino as a withholding tax agent, that means, in behalf of the winning bettors, they'll deduct that tax from their winning and they'll be the one who would report it to the government together with their tax due on a separate report.

Forsyth Jones

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Quote from: PX-Z on March 23, 2024, 03:41:20 AM

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I believe that online casinos/crypto-casinos will be the main alternative for Brazilian bettors, and that this arbitrary decision by the government will be a shot in the foot in the medium-long term resulting in the opposite effect, instead of increasing revenue, it will decrease it, as bettors will migrate to unregulated platforms and online casinos that are not registered here in the country.

The current government is thirsty for citizens' money, but what are they doing with so much money to always want more and more?

Quote from: Odohu on March 23, 2024, 02:53:29 AM

This sounds more to me like the government indirectly discouraging people from gambling because in a nutshell, it makes gambling rarely profitable as you will be remitting any profit you manage to make to the government. If I place 10 bets and win only 3 and I'm taxed in the 3 bets that I won, what happens to the bets I lost? Is this not simply increasing the loss of the gambler? This simply means that the government is saying don't gamble and if you insist, if you didn't lose your money to the bookies, we will take it from you... whichever case, the loss is on the gamblers and only few will escape.

What happens to taxing only credits to bank accounts? This is the effective way to tax and not to tax individual bet slip.

No Odohu, the government isn't at all concerned about discouraging bettors, if that made sense, they'd run some kind of campaign encouraging bettors not to bet or something like that, but as a lot of money circulates especially in recent years with the increase surreal of sponsorships from sports betting companies in brazilian football (around 60 or 70% of clubs sponsorships are done by sports betting companies), there was an increase in both interest and finance in the betting sector in the country and the government unintentionally wasting time, saw the opportunity to tax the sector absurdly.

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Quote from: acroman08 on March 21, 2024, 06:59:28 PM

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

In nutshell: bettors will have to pay 15% on the winnings received from any bets, regardless of whether the reward is small or large, and companies will have to pay 12% on revenue.

It's fucked up that people who gamble need to pay 15% if they won but casino companies only need to pay 12%. though casino revenue is big it still doesn't change the fact that they will still charge higher to their average citizen compare to the companies. it is quite sad.

Haha. Sounds very government to me.

To OP is the winning bet is automatically taxed on the gambling platform like deducted win receive by the gambler or individual gamblers will need to declare this winning on their internal revenue office? Because if this is not automatically taxed, then gamblers will just ignore it. There are many loopholes to avoid this actually especially if using a crypto-related casinos.

Odohu

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

In nutshell: bettors will have to pay 15% on the winnings received from any bets, regardless of whether the reward is small or large, and companies will have to pay 12% on revenue.

This is for physical bets or bets made online.

Lula (thief corrupt president) vetoed income tax for winnings from bets of up to R$2112 (~425 USD) per month.

The funny thing is that he didn't take into account the loss that bettors have before calculating the tax (that's a lot of bullshit).

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

This sounds more to me like the government indirectly discouraging people from gambling because in a nutshell, it makes gambling rarely profitable as you will be remitting any profit you manage to make to the government. If I place 10 bets and win only 3 and I'm taxed in the 3 bets that I won, what happens to the bets I lost? Is this not simply increasing the loss of the gambler? This simply means that the government is saying don't gamble and if you insist, if you didn't lose your money to the bookies, we will take it from you... whichever case, the loss is on the gamblers and only few will escape.

What happens to taxing only credits to bank accounts? This is the effective way to tax and not to tax individual bet slip.

adpinbr

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As it is, everyone intention to make money from betting and they are also taking the whole risk by themselves without the help of the governments or any third-party to help them in the losses or any problem, they encounter during the time of the prediction, I don’t see any reason why the government will come in on the profit they have seen, and the government don’t even care about their losses are past sometimes they have encounter loss more than the profit they just got that is what they government have to consider and the 15% they are taking is very high. It’s not advisable for them to do that.

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 23, 2024, 02:23:51 AM

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Lula (thief corrupt president) vetoed income tax for winnings from bets of up to R$2112 (~425 USD) per month.

The funny thing is that he didn't take into account the loss that bettors have before calculating the tax (that's a lot of bullshit).

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

It reminds me of the regulation they made in Spain in 2012 if I remember correctly. At the beginning they didn't allow you to include the losses for the tax calculation either, but it is something that lasted half a year I think, and they had to modify it. So I guess that in Brazil they will modify it too.

They will see the outcome of this regulation, instead of getting the collection to increase, it will likely result to the opposite as gamblers would not gamble anymore due to this high taxes. As a result, when the numbers of gamblers reduced, the income of a casino will reduce, so I think this is not a well thought law that eventually will be revise as you said.

Good that it already happen to other country, they could have make it as a reference before finalizing the law so there's no need to revise anytime soon.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 06:03:55 PM

Lula (thief corrupt president) vetoed income tax for winnings from bets of up to R$2112 (~425 USD) per month.

The funny thing is that he didn't take into account the loss that bettors have before calculating the tax (that's a lot of bullshit).

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

It reminds me of the regulation they made in Spain in 2012 if I remember correctly. At the beginning they didn't allow you to include the losses for the tax calculation either, but it is something that lasted half a year I think, and they had to modify it. So I guess that in Brazil they will modify it too.

Negotiation

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The government usually wants to develop the country by imposing taxes to know the source of income of the people. Citizens will not have anything hidden through taxes the government will know all their information brazil is set to approve a tax reform that protects the purchasing power of the most disadvantaged groups through partial refunds. Considering increasing the reform budget to reach 100% of the population in any case through a specific tax which will therefore be a complete exemption for those who spend less and partially spend. It will be difficult for the government to tax crypto gamblers because everything in crypto is done online and the information is private.

Japinat

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Quote from: killerfrost on March 22, 2024, 04:46:35 PM

Can gambling taxes be a source of revenue for development, or are they simply another tool for corrupt officials to enrich themselves? Imagine a scenario where a significant portion of this tax revenue gets diverted away from public services and into the pockets of a few. Such a scenario would undermine the very purpose of taxation.

The concern about corruption in developing countries plagued by embezzlement is well-founded. Without strong institutions and transparent governance, tax revenue can become a target for exploitation. However, dismissing taxation entirely throws away a potential source of income for public services. This revenue could be used to improve education, healthcare, and infrastructure, benefiting everyone.

Taxes are suppose to be for the development of a country, they need funds to make it happen. Corruption is another thing, as regardless on where the funds are coming, but if the officials that are running the country, it will still end up on their personal pocket. Taxing gambling sites and gamblers at the same time, that's too much, no love for gambling on them and I think only those who are addicted would allow that to happen to them since 15% from winnings is just too huge considering we are not even winning most of the time.

So this is where gambling is just for purely fun, we don't expect to win as taxes will kill our bankroll.

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The fear of corruption and misappropriation of funds is a concern in many countries. Imagine hard-earned money going towards politicians' pockets instead of public services. The distinction you draw between supporting taxation for public good and opposing it for personal gain is insightful. The ideal scenario is citizens contributing to a system that benefits everyone, not just a select few.

The desire for transparent government spending is crucial. Imagine clear information about how tax dollars are allocated, fostering trust and encouraging responsible tax collection. The potential benefits of responsible tax collection are undeniable. Funding essential public services, infrastructure projects, and social programs can improve the lives of citizens. Imagine improved roads, accessible healthcare, and educational opportunities made possible by responsible tax allocation.

The situation in Brazil, where some areas lack basic infrastructure, highlights the need for effective use of tax revenue. Imagine directing resources towards development projects that bridge the gap between urban and rural areas, improving the quality of life for all.

Docnaster

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Quote from: killerfrost on March 22, 2024, 04:46:35 PM

Can gambling taxes be a source of revenue for development, or are they simply another tool for corrupt officials to enrich themselves? Imagine a scenario where a significant portion of this tax revenue gets diverted away from public services and into the pockets of a few. Such a scenario would undermine the very purpose of taxation.

The concern about corruption in developing countries plagued by embezzlement is well-founded. Without strong institutions and transparent governance, tax revenue can become a target for exploitation. However, dismissing taxation entirely throws away a potential source of income for public services. This revenue could be used to improve education, healthcare, and infrastructure, benefiting everyone.

Tax from when it came to existence have always been the government's source of income and will always be. Diversion of of public funds by government officials is one thing that's majorly affected the development of many countries but with my knowledge of how transparent the Brazilian government have been over the years and the ability of the country's security agencies to prosecute public office holders who decided to embezzle public funds, I don't think the primary reason of this particular policy concerning gambling companies and payment of taxes has anything to do with the personal interest of government officials in the country.
Corruption is without doubt one of the problems of Brazil as a country but the recent technology advancement in the country have made it very difficult for the country's politicians to embezzle money without being caught. I think it's absolutely a good thing to place tax on the gambling companies because they've been gaining from the public and should be mandated to pay taxes

Topic: brazil sanctioned law that taxes online betting in the country - page 2. (Read 729 times)