Topic: brazil sanctioned law that taxes online betting in the country - page 3. (Read 729 times)

Can gambling taxes be a source of revenue for development, or are they simply another tool for corrupt officials to enrich themselves? Imagine a scenario where a significant portion of this tax revenue gets diverted away from public services and into the pockets of a few.  Such a scenario would undermine the very purpose of taxation.

The concern about corruption in developing countries plagued by embezzlement is well-founded.  Without strong institutions and transparent governance, tax revenue can become a target for exploitation. However, dismissing taxation entirely throws away a potential source of income for public services.  This revenue could be used to improve education, healthcare, and infrastructure, benefiting everyone.

No question about taxes, every government in the world impose it, as it plays a crucial role in the development and overall well being of a country. However, I think it's too much for a bettor to have this kind of tax bracket. I mean some of us wants to gamble and have some fun, then it could be a double black eye for us if we are going to lose and then pay taxes? Or even if we win though, it will not be 100% as the hands of the government are already there when you cash-in your winnings. Probably the government wanted to curb gambling in Brazil, but for gamblers, it seems this is not fair if we are just talking about taxes. There are other ways for the government to get extra money, but not in the hands of gamblers. Just tax the operators or the casinos, not the players.

TBH, I just based it from op's post which I'm assuming is a local -- corrupt politician + not counting losses and 15% tax imposed regardless of the amount


Thanks for the input!

I personally like education more as an approach to gambling prevention which includes mental health awareness and mandatory integration of responsible gambling features, etc. because people have to realize what is wrong at some point.

Taxing like in brazil sounds like they just wanna get a slice of the pie.

15% is too much for small-time bettors. They know for the fact it's an unfair number.
When it gets tougher the government will really exercise its laws to make money.  But this would also mean that your government will allow more casinos built in your cities right?  Your president better have plans for those who get addicted.

From what I heard Lula is a populist president who won by landslide so I guess the majority of the people in Brazil agree with his laws.

I completely agree with you on this, Mate. Taxing bettors on their profits while ignoring their losses can be extremely unjust, and it is not a system that fosters fairness or equity. It appears that the government is setting individuals up for failure by taxing them regardless of the magnitude of their wins. I believe there are several other possible solutions to this problem, such as a system in which losses can be subtracted from gains before taxes are imposed.

It's true. Doesn't matter how much the gambler profited from gambling, he will have to pay 15% taxes to "Papai Lule" (Daddy Lula, in gender-neutral pronoun), nevertheless. That is a very harsh regulation, because even towards cryptocurrencies there is a minimum monthly negotiation size to be taxed. Below that line, it's tax free. Now regards gambling, it's much worse.

So much love comes with a price... This is the government of the love, as their marketing says. What is theirs belong to them, and what is yours also belong to them!

I'm on the same country, therefore I face the same regulations. Let's hope Bitcoin gambling can help gamblers to evade this bullshit. It's rare enough to profit from gambling, and once a gambler finally achieves doing this, he still has to give a big slice of the cake to the government. Governments are constantly trying to increase their sources of income, and now they are focusing the digital world in order to do so, especially now that sports betting are so popular in the country. The eyes of the politicians must really shine...

Until a while ago, the sports betting and casino sectors were not so popular and did not attract so much attention in Brazil
However, in 2022 / 2023, Brazilian soccer was invaded by advertising campaigns from casinos and bookmakers, and not only that, interest has also increased and many people with access to a smartphone and internet are betting in a very easy and simple way, which was not the case before

This has attracted a lot of attention from the government because they are missing out on millions in taxes, so they have acted quickly to implement this law
Now it's a question of how they're going to monitor it, since if the person doesn't draw on fiat, it's quite difficult

The way this law of taxation for gamblers is designed is quite unfair. I am not from your country, but in my opinion, the tax is not supposed to be applicable in such a way that gamblers should pay 15% of only the winnings they get. In such a case, I will say that the government is selfish because they don't care about the losses that gamblers are going to encounter. 

If such a law should be passed, I suggest that the 15% be taken from the money that the gambler wants to stake and not from their winnings. For example, if I want to stake $10, let 15% be taken out for taxation, and I will be left to only stake $8.5, which, if I win, will not pay tax again. That will be more fair than the already agreed-upon law. 

I am not against taxation, the money to support a country is supposed to come from somewhere, I guess, specially if we are talking about a government is which functional and takes care of the hardships of the people. Anyways, even though I think that way I do not think it is fair for gamblers to have to declare only their wins when comes to casinos and betting, the citizens of Brazil should also be able to declsre their losses due to gambling, so the government is aware of those losses and make exceptions on the taxation of such person, you know. I think there is a similar thing like that in the United States, where people is supposed to declare both their income and also their losses, so they get money in return from it.

It may be a sample of the inability of the Brazilian government to actually make exceptions on the taxation of gambling, for the sake of increasing the in flow of cash to the treasury.
Taxing gambling earning had always been a sensitive topic, in my opinion. Since we are talking about taking money from the good luck of others, it is as if the government had a stake on our own money and they will always get cash when we get lucky, but won't offer a hand with we blow it.

Rather unfair. I wonder how much of that money will end up in centers of rehabilitation for the gambling addicted population of Brazil...  

each country sets the laws they want, but there are countries that greatly exaggerate their laws, from what I saw of this law, in addition to the value of taxes being higher for the player in relation to the owner of the gambling company, there is also Another point that I disagree with is the rules for having betting houses in Brazil, as I could understand, the Brazilian government will require that a sports betting company be obliged to have a Brazilian citizen as the owner of 20% of the company, or If a sports betting site wants to obtain a license to operate in Brazil, then that sports betting site will only be given a license that proves that the sports betting site has Brazilian citizens with 20% shares as owner of the sports betting site.

Also from what I can understand, sports betting companies will have to pay 30 million Brazilian reais for the government to grant an exploration license. I honestly wonder which sports betting company would want to sell 20% of shares to a Brazilian person and still pay 30 million reais to the Brazilian government to obtain a license, 30 million reais is 6 million dollars, which sports betting company Will you pay 6 million dollars to operate in Brazil? imagine that I am an American citizen and I have my own sports betting company in which I own 100%, I want to expand my business to Brazil, I arrive in Brazil and read the laws and in the laws I see that I have to have a Brazilian partner, because I am forced to sell 20% of my company to a citizen of Brazil? and then I see that I must pay 6 million dollars in fees to the government to obtain a license valid for 5 years

It's not a lifetime license, it's something that every 5 years the company must pay 6 million dollars, I don't know if I'm misunderstanding the points of this law, but I read it all on this website which is in Portuguese and English:

https://www.mattosfilho.com.br/en/unico/regulating-sports-betting/

In my opinion, it is clear that the Brazilian government does not like sports betting and much less are they concerned about their people, they focused on making money and advantages with sports betting companies that want to operate in Brazil, and it is obvious that politicians and Brazilian rich people with political influence will pressure foreign betting companies that want to operate in Brazil to sell their shares to them, because only then will the foreign sports betting company have the chance to have a license and at the same time as the government of Brazil Brazil will make money from the 6 million dollars that the sports betting company pays in fees to the government. I highly doubt there will be many foreign sports betting companies that will do this

If they had taken account of the losses of the gambler it would have been nice - right now it feels like they want to pretend as if gamblers do not exist when there's a loss but as soon as they win they'll rush in to collect their tax not even calculating if the win has covered the previous loses that was experienced.

Fortunately for me, this type of regulation is not in my country although there was news about banning sports betting in my country it was all talk nothing was done. But if taxes like this are introduced in my country I'll have to reduce my activity and look for a means to still bet without conforming to such brutal regulation.

Am surprised to read such because in my country, I don't think I have heard of such even as it a major endeavor for those who are both employed and unemployed, male or female, young or old but seeking alternative source of income to live a better life.
This is unfair by the Brazilian government unless winning there is easy and more frequent than losses.

Also, the government might be trying to discourage more participation in gambling or betting hence why they are regulating it by taxing and don't care about the losses that might be incurred by the gamblers who may have either borrowed to gamble/bet or used monies meant for something else to gamble/bet.

Last I checked, your country also taxes and regulates crypto currency and the Nubank does allow funds to be transferred to cryptocurrency exchanges both within and outside the country that adhere to the Brazilian central bank policies. There's also cryptocurrency offices and ATMs in Brazil.
What am trying to say in summary is that your government has used the system of taxing every sector to get funds to improve the nGDP of the country. Am sure you have a better economy than many of the inflation ridden countries currently.

No I do not have a problem with such tax implementation.

Taxes are the lifeblood of the government- without such, the government machinery will render incapacitated in order to provide any security, benefit, and projects to the nation. As you can say, tax implementations have this reciprocal relationship with its citizens- the people will pay their corresponding taxes and the government will provide benefits due to such payment thereof. In an ideal world, this can greatly benefit all as this would result to a win-win situation to both the people and the government.

The problem lies on how tax is implemented and executed. There are instances where tax can be a tool to destroy, as said by the late Chief Justice Marshall.¹ While this may be the case, still, tax implementation is a necessary function for the government.

In its implementation to gambling, taxing such platform is severely needed due to its rising popularity. This can bring tons of revenue to the government; and in return the latter would provide more opportunities to its citizens.

---

1 https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/17/316/

It's still too early to say, but I can tell you that the population will not feel an improvement or receive a return from these taxes, the majority of this money collected is distributed among high-ranking government officials, as well as personal possessions of Brazilian politicians (i.e. corruption).

To give you an idea, I'll leave here the links that show what the current government is doing with the tax money collected, even with the increase in taxes, in less than 2 years in government, it managed to reverse the improvements in government management previous one (here is democracy where the president is chosen by vote by the people every 4 years) in less than 2 years of government.

Link 1, Link2.

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head.

This is too complicated, gambling is not even a winnable venture and yet people are paying 15% in every winning? That's insane, this law is not for the security of people or a casino, it's mostly to discourage gamling and would kill the industry soon.

I believe the right way to tax here is that the government will tax a casino on their monthly or daily income as casino wins most of the time if not all the time, so they can really pay taxes coming from their income. What would happen if a gambler will pay taxes? This scenario will happen.

Say a gambler has $1000 total bankroll used for gambling.

Day 1 he wins $500 less 15% =$15 goes to the gov (running balance $1485)
day 2 he loss $500.. no tax of course. ( running balance  $985)....

See, you are break even and yet you already loss $15.. and that's just taxes, what if we are betting in sports here where we get 1.90 odds, more like 10% juice for the house, so if you bet $1000, you'll win $900 only ( you loss $10), and that $900 will be tax by 15%..... no, no, no... This is too much of a tax.

That's not good when government is trying to look for ways to tax their people and they see the potential of gambling, your taxes for winning is 15%, here a lottery winner will have to bear 20% tax coming from his winning, on losses we don't have that yet maybe because the government is the one running some gambling platform here like lottery and physical casinos.

Our country is not that rich compared to gambling friendly countries where you don't have to pay for your winnings and your losses, but on third world country or where the country is very populous they need to find a source of income and revenue to sustain their services to their citizen.
If you're a gambling is a blessing if you're living on Europe where taxes in gambling is free.

A law that is contrary to naturally justice is harmful to the people and should not continue. If government wants to tax on winning then they should also compensate losing.



It is not fair on gambler, the government should face the agents or casinos who on a daily bases gets income accruing from losers money 


None that I know of. I have not seen gamber who won his game and he is paying for tax, no I don't think so but I believe the company agent should pay tax as income tax like a company operating in the country.


No I don't think so. To win gambling bet is not easy and so to charge tax on winning isn't fair because who takes care of losses when the gambler loses.

What a load of bullshit, that's what happens when politicians get so obsessed with getting money out of people that they end up thinking with their asses instead of their brains when drafting a law. I hope there is a law regarding poker that considers what happens at the tables as chips and not real money, if not I can already see that no poker player will be able to be a winner in Brazil, so the professionals will have to emigrate. For the rest of the casino games, even if they are EV games, the fact that they tax you when you win and do not allow you to deduct your losses means a much worse return than before.

I predict that there will be a significant drop in the revenue of casinos in the country. Let's see if they come to their senses and modify the law in the future.

The government wants to knows and will collect the sources of income from its citizens and used the data for their advantage in the term of apply tax for their citizens. That's happen in many countries so the government asked their citizens to gives explanation from their citizens about their incomes and the funds. That's normal happens to their citizens so they can't do anything excepts gives informations to their governments.

The government doesn't wants to knows about if their citizens lose their money and will takes tax from the winners. But for crypto gamblers, they will find out how they can hide their winnings, especially if they can convert their coins from one to another so they don't have to tells about their winning

The government will always want to take a cut of people's money, I guess, if people are playing at casinos with cryptocurrencies, what's the point of declaring that? leave your money in your wallet and everything is fine, no one has the power to take the money from your wallet.

If you are going to buy something using the profit from betting, try offering the seller to pay in cryptocurrencies, the seller will certainly not stop selling because of this, after all everyone wants money. It's good that it helps with the evangelization of bitcoin.