brazil sanctioned law that taxes online betting in the country - page 4.

Z390

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Quote from: Porfirii on March 22, 2024, 02:00:56 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on March 22, 2024, 12:57:56 AM

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 07:03:55 PM

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

The gambling sector in my country is regulated and gamblers also pay tax. But the difference is that you can fill your gamble losses as expenditure and get tax reductions. The government shouldn't only gain from tax will they will not also partake of the losses.

Yes, same here (Spain), but the rate is also higher than what the OP said for Brazil (ranges from 20% to 25% here).

If the OP is a gambler, I'm sorry to hear that from now on he will have to pay if he is successful if he was used to don't care about it. Financial management of gamblers is always hard, and having to add this new requirement to the equation complicates things even more.

Sorry to say but it seems like Brazil can now only survive on the money the government makes from casino taxes it seems. Grin

15% from gamblers and 12% from casinos, isn't that looking like corruption on its own? Because this amount is alarming as if it's the only way the country can grow, this is a lot of money, imagine if Brazil has a million gamblers as a minimum.

If I am living in Brazil I will have to stop gambling because it's the most targeted for the Brazilian government right now, and if this tax is shifted to other things like businesses then it's a calling to leave the country behind.

Hearing that yours @porfirii is even up to 25% is disheartening, in my country gamblers don't pay any taxes but the casinos do pay heavily on tax settlement, which I believe is the way it should be, casinos are always making money, and they can afford it.

Davidvictorson

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Quote from: Potato Chips on March 21, 2024, 07:47:38 PM

I'm not against taxes as long as it's not gonna be pocketed and the taxable scenarios as well as the tax percentage are made in respect of each possible cases. Sadly, I don't think this is what's happening here.

I don't know Brazil so well but from the article, it is state in there that some of the taxes for companies will be divided between areas such as education, health, tourism, public safety and sport. I presume the OP is a Brazilian, he should be in the best place to tell us if there has been improvements in the Brazil's education, health, tourism, public safety and sport sector since the passing of the law.

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But with gambling being stigmatized, I wouldn't be surprised if the goverment think of the high taxes as a morale boost for them.

At first I thought aim was to reduce gambling addiction like one of the taxes in Australia but I was wrong. The president of Brazil has gone on a taxing spree. He is taxing everything and anything. And it is going to disproportionately affect the poor and middle class, with nearly 80% of income going towards taxes.

Porfirii

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Quote from: Fiatless on March 22, 2024, 12:57:56 AM

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 07:03:55 PM

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

The gambling sector in my country is regulated and gamblers also pay tax. But the difference is that you can fill your gamble losses as expenditure and get tax reductions. The government shouldn't only gain from tax will they will not also partake of the losses.

Yes, same here (Spain), but the rate is also higher than what the OP said for Brazil (ranges from 20% to 25% here).

If the OP is a gambler, I'm sorry to hear that from now on he will have to pay if he is successful if he was used to don't care about it. Financial management of gamblers is always hard, and having to add this new requirement to the equation complicates things even more.

Fiatless

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 07:03:55 PM

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

The gambling sector in my country is regulated and gamblers also pay tax. But the difference is that you can fill your gamble losses as expenditure and get tax reductions. The government shouldn't only gain from tax will they will not also partake of the losses.

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Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

The government has the constitutional right to seek for means of making more money to enable it to meet the needs of its citizens. But such laws should be fair and not one-sided. These policymakers should take into consideration that gambling is risky and people have been losing funds before they finally got a win. Tax should be calculated after deducting total expenses from the win.

Findingnemo

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Here in my country too the taxation works the same, there is no compensation for the loss we made but taxes will be cut down from the rewards straight away and if I am not wrong that's how taxation on gambling works in most part of the world. From individual perspective it seems unfair to collect taxes in every possible way from their citizen but they say it will be used for the development of the country thus including yourself too.

pinggoki

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It's not security, they just want more ways to get money for themselves through taxes, that's how they do things in most country right? I would only support this kind of thing that the government does when I know that the money that's being taxed is being used to fund projects that benefit the many without harming any person then I'd gladly pay my taxes but if I don't see any welfare programs, public works and other government programs that help the general population then I would definitely never ever support it because that would only mean that I'm going to be enabling more money being pocketed by corrupt officials and that doesn't sit right with me in any shape or form. Brazilian government is probably needing all the money that they can get to use it on some public works that have been overbudget, I've heard that there's some parts of the country that are so bad that it's difficult to live in it.

famososMuertos

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Brazil is a great betting market, and in the world of poker they create excellent traffic. In these parts, Brazil is always the country that has the most players, both online and in person.

Regarding the matter, OP, it is not a surprise, it is something that has been happening, and in fact I would say that Brazil is very late. Countries like Spain are strict with the subject of betting, in that sense, one can see the emigration of high rollers to other latitudes in Europe where even the profits from these tax concepts are ridiculous for the payment of taxes.

In my case I have to pay taxes on my gross income. Casinos have taxes around 30% to 45%.(+`/-)

Forsyth Jones

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Quote from: Yogee on March 21, 2024, 08:34:36 PM

I can understand the 12% tax on revenues for gambling businesses but the 15% on the individual is insane. At least there's a set minimum amount that would be taxed but why is the rate too high for ordinary sports bettors? Most of them are not making profits from gambling so that part doesn't make sense to me.

I also asked myself the same thing, but the government is the government, the important thing is to tax, it doesn't matter who pays the bill.

Reading each of your opinions, I see that the majority finds it absurd how much brazil wants to charge in taxes, but friends, this will only encourage bettors to migrate to casino hosted in other countries, 'cause how can the government prevent the traffic from these users to other countries?

This will only make bettors find better alternatives to continue betting, consequently they'll get to know cryptos and voila, it's done. At the end of it all, the government will collect less (laffer curve), with crypto like Bitcoin, LTC, etc. we can transfer and receive from any place in the world.

tsaroz

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That's not a huge cut considering the average tax levied on gambling around the world. Generally, it's casino operators that are subjected to much more tax and a 15% individual tax on win is not huge. And I don't think it's taxed for every win on bet for casino gaming but for overall amount won on a sitting. Because it could be difficult to calculate that and the person might be charged more than it ever gambled. It's not a bid deal to give 15% of the extra money you are walking away in few hours.
Taxing casino would not only increase the revenue of the government but also makes the gambling industry transparent.

danherbias07

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Although not an online gambling site, the same thing is happening here near us. The cockpit. I've received news from their patrons that the winning amount is already cut by 10 - 15 percent. And of course, they are getting more money from the business itself which we don't know how much.

I was shocked for a bit to hear how much money they are taking from the patrons, I mean you will not even feel the profit if you don't bet large to one rooster because of the tax. Still, there are many people who gather in the place.
It will depend though if there will be changes in the city. In our case, I've seen new roads being established, streetlights being installed and the city hall itself was like a futuristic building. So, I guess the money that they get from the cockpit is going to something good, that's why you won't see people going against it.

Darker45

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I think it's just fair for gambling companies to be taxed. And I also think it's just fair for gambling winnings to be taxed. But there should be a higher threshold below which winnings are exempted from taxes.

There are also existing tax regulations in my country as regards gambling winnings. I think it's even harsher here save for the fact that our government is very weak in terms policy implementation.

If I'm not mistaken, all winnings big and small coming from gambling will be taxed. Small winnings are subject to ordinary income tax. Winnings above ₱10,000 ($178.23), however, shall be subject to 20% tax. Now, that's harsh.

alani123

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Quote from: acroman08 on March 21, 2024, 07:59:28 PM

It's fucked up that people who gamble need to pay 15% if they won but casino companies only need to pay 12%. though casino revenue is big it still doeychange the fact that they will still charge higher to their average citizen compare to the companies. it is quite sad.

Right? If casino taxes are that low, at least make them pay the player's winnings tax out of pocket too. It's not gonna cost them that much. Some of their most played games like slots have crazy high house edge so they get like 3 to 5% of their turnover as profit. Which should be millions of dollars in each given day. From that they could comfortable cover the winnings taxes of gamblers.

It's so odd that governments will go the extra mile to tax players but leave huge entities such as online casinos unscathed when it comes to taxes. Hopefully the scales will be tipped sooner than later. Lula is supposedly a leftist and he should have thought of taxing corporations more before people.

Yogee

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I can understand the 12% tax on revenues for gambling businesses but the 15% on the individual is insane. At least there's a set minimum amount that would be taxed but why is the rate too high for ordinary sports bettors? Most of them are not making profits from gambling so that part doesn't make sense to me.

acroman08

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 07:03:55 PM

In nutshell: bettors will have to pay 15% on the winnings received from any bets, regardless of whether the reward is small or large, and companies will have to pay 12% on revenue.

It's fucked up that people who gamble need to pay 15% if they won but casino companies only need to pay 12%. though casino revenue is big it still doesn't change the fact that they will still charge higher to their average citizen compare to the companies. it is quite sad.

Iroh

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Government being government. Always scheming and on the lookout for how they could raise revenue through more taxation. I’m all for paying taxes especially when I’m reassured through seeing social amenities working fine. I don’t think I’ll feel obligated in any way to pay such a tax.
Increasing legal security isn’t likely the lead point on why this tax was brought about. Perhaps this could also be an avenue to reduce the rate of gambling in the country and if so, I doubt it would make any significant change.

It’s crazy one would have to be paying a certain amount of your winnings to the government.

alani123

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Honestly, posting here in a pseudonymous account, I'm not afraid to say that gambling in crypto is for me a way to avoid such ridiculous law. Greece has a better GDP per capita than Brazil and yet over here if you win above 100 EUR in gambling you're immediately taxed.

It's crazy that governments will try to tax the working man so much and even get in our wallets when we might get a lucky break through gambling. 15% might be considered on the low side for gambling profits but rightly so as OP puts it, it doesn't take into account losses in many occasions. The ruling parties should focus on dismantling generational wealth and the ultra-rich heirs instead of getting so deep in the pockets of people that live paycheck to paycheck.

I've heard at least mr. Lula's government is doing many things to prevent corporations from getting tax cuts and actually raised some taxes for big capital holders. Which is a step in the right direction for these matters. If I was a Brazilian I'd play with crypto and keep my gambling profits untaxed without any remorse. The billionaires need to pay their fair share too. Make them pay 15% of their wealth and then I'd pay up too. Wink

Potato Chips

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I'm not against taxes as long as it's not gonna be pocketed and the taxable scenarios as well as the tax percentage are made in respect of each possible cases. Sadly, I don't think this is what's happening here.

But with gambling being stigmatized, I wouldn't be surprised if the goverment think of the high taxes as a morale boost for them. Simultaneously, they're not completely banning the industry so they'll be keeping the usual part of the cash flow from operators Grin

But in the coming months or year, we'll see how many players will shift to off-shore betting sites lol.

Wiwo

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So in total the government is getting 15% + 12%=27% of each bets across all the casinos operating in Brazil region, well many of the under developed countries have seen taxation as means to embezle citizens money even though the government's are headed by corrupt politicians who may have ranged their ways into power and are living large on the common wealth of the countries.

I am not against taxation, but what makes in implementation worrisome in some situations I the way and manner at which those at the helm of affairs manage those resources to serve the betterment of the whole instead of just sharing among the few.

I guess we should be ready for more regulations in time to Come because most of the countries around the world are just waking up to the issue of taxation and many are taking a more aggressive approach to it.

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Quote from: Forsyth Jones on March 21, 2024, 07:03:55 PM

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

Sorry, they make the rules and can bend it to their favour anyhow they like. What I think about this is that they are doing this to discourage gambling addiction. Thus in addition to other risk management strategies individuals in Brazil who bet will add the government's 15% as a factor and know they will manage the risk of losing a part of their winnings.
I expected that the tax on gambling operators would be higher like 20% since they make more money than the individual. Of course they house always wins.
In my country, we do not have the same tax although I wish something like this existed. Gambling is not regulated so any person with a smart phone can create an sign up and deposit money into a casino to bet.
I would only agree if they review the impact of this law in the gambling industry after 5 years and it actually curbed gambling addiction. Isn't this the goal of the law?

Forsyth Jones

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Since last year, here in my country (brazil), it has been discussed by the senate and from what I researched, in 2024/jan the law came into force that taxes bets of any nature involving online and physical bets. (link)

The purpose of the law is to increase legal security in the betting sector in Brazil, (taxing revenue from bettors for the government? LOL)

In nutshell: bettors will have to pay 15% on the winnings received from any bets, regardless of whether the reward is small or large, and companies will have to pay 12% on revenue.

This is for physical bets or bets made online.

Lula (thief corrupt president) vetoed income tax for winnings from bets of up to R$2112 (~425 USD) per month.

The funny thing is that he didn't take into account the loss that bettors have before calculating the tax (that's a lot of bullshit).

Summary of the story: the government wants to be our partner only in gains, but in losses, we alone are forced to bear the financial losses. Very convenient, right?

What do you think of this? Is there any regulation in the betting sector in your country?

Do you think the government should really collect alternative sources of income from its citizens such as online gambling?

Topic: brazil sanctioned law that taxes online betting in the country - page 4. (Read 575 times)