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Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 24. (Read 119654 times)

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
So, your argument boils down to "because Bitcoin". I'm afraid that you'll have to back that statement up then. What is special about Bitcoin that allows Pirate to provide such large returns at this scale?

Im only going to answer this part. Thats exactly why he isnt sharing, I have had some of my very own short term legit lucrative ideas that I never revealed which later on got caught up by other people. You are effectively requesting what he is doing to make money, surely you cant be this naive to think that if its all legit and not a ponzi like Lord Micon and co. wants it to be then not revealing the actual business is +EV for pirate ?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.




I also believe there to be many shill accounts reporting interest as paid.  Of course there are many real marks too, the BTC has to come from somewhere.  a few real interest payments + a few shills = the appearance of community support

So the speculation is only valid if part of your fantasy ? You sure as hell need to watch different porn.

Now back to reality, if there is no person complaining about not receiving interest then there is only 2 possibilities at this moment: 1.) There is no marks/investors other than the shills, 2.) There is real investors and none of this shill bullshit and these real investors have gotten paid every single week thus no complaints.

Can you step into reality for a moment, I know its asking alot from your pokemon fights.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
On the contrary, when it comes to Ponzis, a lack of evidence of anything is evidence of a Ponzi. It's also extremely easy to disprove if it's not a ponzi. As it is, there is no evidence that a business side of BS&T even exists. If I'm wrong about this, let me know.
Well, there are quite a few respected members of this very forum, that know exactly about the BS&T business. You being a Moderator, did you even think about asking them privately before making your ponzi accusations?
Of course, both as a public call for information, and as private requests. I finally have a lead, so I'm going to see where that brings us.
Now it might well be a ponzi, but the last two months led me to think it's not. The "ponzi campaign" seemed to work quite well, the withdrawal must have been large, according to GLBSE PPT rates and forum talks, yet he has been able to meet his obligations.
That's a common misconception. The "ponzi campaign" did work well... for Pirate. Sure, a vocal minority withdrew a large chuck of money, but what you aren't seeing behind the scenes is that the "ponzi campaign" actually brought Pirate significantly more money. He was receiving close to 10% in deposits per week, even after you subtract the withdrawals. Of course he was able to meet those obligations, knowing that.

Hey, you Pirate supporters, could you point me to ONE case in history where someone has paid consistently several thousand percent REAL interest rate for an unlimited number of debtors over extended time where the nature of the business was not disclosed to investors that didn't turn out to be a scam.

The extended time you speak of is right at a year and its in a brand new/emerging technology.  Look at any brand new, rapidly growing company and their rates will be off the charts and of course if you extrapolate those rates to infinite they look ridiculous. That's part of the point that the 'pirate supporters' are trying to make.. a high interest rate isn't a clear indicator all by itself.
So, your argument boils down to "because Bitcoin". I'm afraid that you'll have to back that statement up then. What is special about Bitcoin that allows Pirate to provide such large returns at this scale?
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.

Given the rate of whinging on the GPUMax thread about not getting _work_, I would imagine that there would be a hue and cry if people didn't get their payments.

or complaining about being on the waiting list too long..
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1014
FPV Drone Pilot
i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.




I also believe there to be many shill accounts reporting interest as paid.  Of course there are many real marks too, the BTC has to come from somewhere.  a few real interest payments + a few shills = the appearance of community support
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1014
FPV Drone Pilot
1)  For those that haven't seen it yet, most ponzi threads are now categorized as "Long-term offers" which obviously is not the correct category name, but at least there is a little corner for these scams to sit in now:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=88.0   I think a name like "1000%+ APR Investments" would correctly categorize them and is a huge warning bell to anyone with a sound understanding of economics.

2)  That being said, here is the locked BCST thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 still erroneously in "securities"   - I have seen many other scams in various other forums but it's good to see that at least a clean up has started and mods are taking action.

3)  The direct communication with Pirate is interesting.  If anyone wants to PM me conversations I would love to read them and will keep both your identity and the content confidential.  If anyone out there involved in this scam in any way wants to communicate anonymously or privately with me I welcome it.  Send anything you feel may be of help.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Anybody got a street address for Pirate the Midland, Texas check-bouncer?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.


sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

heads i win.  tails you lose.


There is also the small matter of federal prison.
legendary
Activity: 873
Merit: 1000
Oh shut up fascist. I have no problem with ponzi talks and whinnings, but don't drag the parasites that be into this, thanks.

their participation is required by law when securities fraud (which ponzis fall under) occurs.

here's a recent example where they went after a ponzi feeder fund "for their role in facilitating a massive ponzi scheme operated by another individual": http://investorswatchdog.com/blog/investorswatchblog/?p=9637


The big question is whether the recipients could be identified and whether anyone is ever going to have enough information to even try to identify them

i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Quote
We tend to believe that people pretend to be someone else only in the movies. But it happens every day. A scam operator can afford to buy the temporary services of actors to play any role. If you’ve begun your search with a goal of confirming the legitimacy of the investment, the shills will convince you of it.

The trick to keeping safe on this dangerous investing landscape is changing what you look for in your investigation. If you look for legitimacy you’ll run into an endless line of shills. But, if you learn how to look for fraud, you’ll recognize it. After all, if fraud is what you want to avoid, why would you look for anything else?
http://investorswatchdog.com/blog/investorswatchblog/?p=9565
legendary
Activity: 873
Merit: 1000
There's no legal framework for doing "claw-back" of bitcoins.
No special framework is needed. If there was a claw back, it would be based on the fair market value of the bitcoins fraudulently transferred as of the time they were transferred, likely with interest accumulating from that time.

so wait, this might just work.

accept 1 bitcoin "deposit" today with the price at $12.  the downlevel reinvests so it doesn't matter what the interest rate is, ... 5%, 7% whatever.

then this ends (collapse) four months from now.

so i'm busted as running a ponzi. because now my identity is known i face a clawback.  i owe the depositor $12 plus interest (let's say the best rate a bank offers for a cd is 3%).    so i have to refund $12.12 (the bitcoin which was worth $12 at the time i accepted it plus twelve cents of interest, based on the rate of 3% per year).

but the exchange rate is $15 by then. so I cash out 0.808 bitcoins (then worth $12.12) and keep 0.192 bitcoins for myself.

but if instead the exchange rate drops to $10 by then, i return the full 1.0 btc.  no harm, no foul.  no bitcoins were lost.

heads i win.  tails you lose.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
There's no legal framework for doing "claw-back" of bitcoins.
No special framework is needed. If there was a claw back, it would be based on the fair market value of the bitcoins fraudulently transferred as of the time they were transferred, likely with interest accumulating from that time. As far as the legal framework would be concerned, bitcoins would be treated like any other thing of value. Intangible items with a market value are routinely clawed back at fair market value. For example, stocks are clawed back.

The big question is whether the recipients could be identified and whether anyone is ever going to have enough information to even try to identify them.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
by "we" clipse meant us, not you
by "ponzi party" psy meant you, not us

 Cheesy

As I said, your unimaginative response it predictably telling.


Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available.

Are you from this planet? The only person late is you, with all the times people posted his identity in these type of threads before.
Scream PONZI a little more.

No need. Your contributions have not been helping your cause. I've caught you stealth-deleting a few posts already. Maybe your colleagues will continue to encourage you to post a bit less.


How charming. Passing bad checks in Texas... is this warrant still out on the alleged pirate?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
nice try on the post rollbacks  Grin
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
well if you're going to edit out what i'm laughing at, i'm... still going to laugh at you, haha
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.



Really? What is his name? Source?
Allegedly:
http://www.facebook.com/trendon.shavers?sk=wall
http://www.linkedin.com/in/businesscognition
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/McKinney/trendon-shavers/101281327.aspx
http://www.co.midland.tx.us/da/hotcheckwarrants/list/?lname=sz
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available.

Are you from this planet? The only person late is you, with all the times people posted his identity in these type of threads before.
Scream PONZI a little more.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.



Really? What is his name? Source?
Why do you need to know his name? I assume you aren't invested.
Apart from that its not for anyone else to give out anyones details

I'm not the one who brought up pirate's identity. But since Clipse did bring it up, it is interesting to the audience here.


Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available.

by "we" clipse meant us, not you
by "ponzi party" psy meant you, not us
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.



Really? What is his name? Source?
Why do you need to know his name? I assume you aren't invested.
Apart from that its not for anyone else to give out anyones details

I'm not the one who brought up pirate's identity. But since Clipse did bring it up, it is interesting to the audience here.


Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available. Either you will or you won't, but the hesitation and defensive stance is telling.
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