Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 27. (Read 119665 times)

I thought that one was self-explanatory.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mybitcointradecom-high-interest-25-5w-20-on-bonds-aaa-since-072011-81357

Joel is all over it already & gives very clear explanations of this particular scam. 

I think you are misunderstanding what JoelKatz is saying.

Sure, someone that has absolutely no clue about BS&T (ie you) will oversight my decision whether or not I investigate. No way!
I am very thankful that Bitcoin is freedom, I can make my own decisions based on my own due diligence. I don't need no oversight.
Advice? Why not, I am free to ignore it, and still make my own decisions.

In contrast your perfect world:
Government/JoelKatz don't like wikileaks? OK, so I am no longer allowed to donate.
Micon/JoelKatz don't like pirate? OK, so I am no longer allowed to invest.

See, they way you put your arguments, I think you are/where a huge SolidCoin fan, because they had exactly what you desire - central oversight. Mind you, it failed for the very same reason.

I completely agree.
Well, that's where you're wrong. *Precisely* what we need to do is replace government oversight with private oversight. Did you see the government doing anything about Madoff? They were practically a co-conspirator. It was private individuals who noticed how perfectly Madoff fit the profile of a Ponzi scheme who sounded the alarm.

See, everyone is free to invest with BS&T, no one is forced to do it. The conditions and terms are here. If you don't like it, don't invest.
The great thing about Bitcoin is that it is about personal freedom, and the last thing we need is to replace government oversight by some Micon/JoelKatz oversight.

It is the obligation of everyone who asks other people for money to ensure that the people giving them money understand the terms under which they are taking that money. If you can't fit the arrangement into their world view, you have no business taking their money. In any event, there's no conceivable way anyone could pay those kinds of interest rates on borrowed funds denominated in Bitcoins while the price of Bitcoin is shooting upward. The only way to sustain those kinds of interest rates for months is if the exchange rate is relatively stable.

Presuming he is not paying his taxes, can you estimate how much Bitcoins he will have to pay to the IRS?

Presuming he can pay everyone back, then the minimum would likely be an IRS investigation 

If not, then the charges would be fraud-based, and in the millions of USD.

LOL, "Mr pirate, I sentence you to 10 years Gulag for paying too high interest rates."

Interesting point on that:

If the idea that bitcoinmax is getting paid 7.7% is true, that puts payb.tc's interest rate at 4738%, which is about twice what Charles Ponzi offered 


Quoting this to bring it back to the front page.
I would love to hear an explanation that covers this without 1-3.

Depends where in the world you live, for some members it's certainly true.

Bitcoin had some -10000% inflation over the last few years. Now good luck fitting Bitcoin into your fiat world view.

Regardless of the frequency with which interest is paid, the rate should be quoted on a yearly basis. Annualized rates permit apples-to-apple comparisons both to interest rates on other instruments and to inflation rates. Many countries require interest rates to be specified in this forum to prevent precisely this type of deceptive description.

If you look at the exchange rate, you can see it's controlled (at least I cannot believe such steady rates is natural). If he controls the exchange rate, and as long as he has new clients, then he has no problem rebuying back the coins on the market because he is the market.

No the problem is: who are his "clients"?

The way I see it is that when he will stop (not default), it will be because volumes on the exchanges are becoming too big for him (ie good news for Bitcoin). And I have no problem with him having such an impact on the exchange rate because it can do this only as long s there is demand for bitcoins, and that if he exit now (or even if he try to crash the market), the demand will stil be there, and the market will go on, just more volatile. He controls the price, not the currency itself.

Now it might well be a ponzi, but the last two months led me to think it's not. The "ponzi campaign" seemed to work quite well, the withdrawal must have been large, according to GLBSE PPT rates and forum talks, yet he has been able to meet his obligations. He showed up publically in Vegas. After this meeting, Goat has started offering fully insured PPT (meaning he was confident). And so on.

So yes, I believe it is possible to have that kind of return, in bitcoins. But I won't insult you if you think otherwise...

Oh, I see that some math gurus have troubles thinking in weeks.
Anyway, the pirate investment works in weeks, hence 7% a week. BS&T pays the interest every week, not every year. So you can withdraw after a single week, and still have those 7%.
Of course, Micon/hgmichna will claim that pirate will ponzi steal those coins out of your wallet, even after you have successfully withdrawn them.

For the math-challenged, that is 3,100% per annum.

Of course the crooks won't ever say that, because they are after the kids who skipped maths at school.

Bitcoinmax is an integral part of the BullShit Trust Ponzi scheme.

Stop even mentioning "7% per week". Name it the ordinary, proper way. It is 3,300% annually.

"7% per week" is a psychological trick for the mathematically challenged to make it sound believable, yet have them calculate how they will get rich quick.

No legitimate business quotes its interest rates per week or per month.

Stop bullshitting everybody here. How deep are you in it?

So "respected members" know about the BullShit Trust business? Name one. Then tell us all why a 3,300% annual interest business borrows money in the first place and how it gets such profits. Then, after you did not do that, shut up for good and, if you are indeed in it, think about how to avoid a jail term.

7% is not that easy. However, if your not too greedy and accept 6.9%, now, that is easy! Send your coins to bitcoinmax, and withdraw after a week. Voila, 6.9% for you.

this this this this this,

You cannot rely on an ever-rising price of bitcoin. If this is another bubble, which is quite conceivable, then it may suddenly collapse and do so too quickly to get out at the top. We have seen this before.

So pirateat40 will continue as long as his stash, valued in dollar, grows, but he will, if he is not too stupid, be wary of unusually high bitcoin/dollar prices. Some people here think that a falling bitcoin price may trigger his exit, and that he has been selling bitcoin all the time, partly to get them out of the block chain and to launder them.

A falling bitcoin price may also indirectly trigger his exit, as some trend followers may want to sell their bitcoins, and for that they have to withdraw them first. (Trend-following is usually not a good strategy, by the way.)

Any big withdrawal order will also trigger his exit, as he will not pay out.

Why not just wait? It is a bit hard to watch a criminal go about his business of stealing money from unsuspecting people and do nothing about it. And with the incredible willingness of some stupid, math-challenged people to part with their money, we may have to wait a little longer, until the exponential curve finally cracks the Ponzi scheme.