Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 26. (Read 119665 times)

How much would you pay people to not be competition while giving you time to become "the" bitcoin savings account/go to guy(or anything else you want to call it really)?

The door to the world is open, and pirate is building a giant shoe.

Clearly a ponzi because no legitimate business has ever had to change their rates.

/sarcasm

OMG ponziiiiiiii

Rate change: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-savings-and-trust-home-closed-50822

Discuss.

That's just wrong and you aren't thinking outside the box.

For one thing, there's no way for pass-through bonds to handle people who want to reinvest other than asking Pirate to send out interest payments and then redepositing any re-investments at a later date. So given the 5% limit which reduces the amount of new shares that GLBSE bonds can issue if they want to receive the top interest rate, any pass-through bond holder who wants to reinvest any of their interest will have to either get someone else to sell them their shares or invest directly in BS&L - at which point BS&L no longer has to find the Bitcoins to make interest payments to them like they would for the pass-through bonds.

And now for a reasonable answer:

When I started loaning coins to pirate, it was much smaller, with only a handful of people. He never promised this would continue forever.  Over time, its grown but pirate's not done anything contrary to what he originally said and given me any real cause to not trust him.  Now, there's a bunch of people coming into this late in the game, claiming to have insight that others just can't see because they're "idiots".

Even if it was gambling, that's my right and often times, venture capital is gambling, even with the best of knowledge.  To call me an idiot because I partake is well within your right, but it doesn't make you correct.

Who's the bigger idiot: the one doing as you say or the one trolling the people who you claim to be idiots?  herpderp.

So if I read what you just said correctly, you're talking about an instance where someone receives their paid out interest, deposit it back in, and then withdraw it again.  Of course he's gonna penalize that!  You're wasting everyone's time with all of this in and out.  He's borrowing coins for the sake of using them, not just to pay you interest.  If he's got to keep a huge slush fund that can't be used for business purposes, but still has to pay interest on that slush, its effectively cutting into his margins. 

BTCST doesn't appear to be setup to be your bitcoin checking account.  It was designed to be a savings account of sorts.  Its called Bitcoin Savings and Trust, not mybitcoin wallet.  Its the same premise with savings accounts at a US Bank.  They limit the number of withdrawals you can do per month in your savings account, because if you need a lot of transaction volume, it should be a checking account.

With all your definite facts sucked out of your thumb I think its time to inform all religions that their messiah allready arrived.

I agree, both combined is the best deal one could get

Investing in stocks or shares is one thing. A startup company is telling you "give me money so our business may succeed and we'll all earn good money". You make the decision to invest or not invest based on your judgment whether the expected returns on the investment is positive in the light of the viability of the business model, the state of the market, etc.

Lending money to someone who promises to pay 3000% interest to everyone and doesn't disclose their business model is just stupid. If you've done that you're an idiot. Even if everyone was completely honest and no fraud existed in the universe, that kind of interest rate amounts to gambling. Unfortunately for you, fraud does exist. 3000% interest rate is fraud.

(Since BTC has gained in value against everything, the real interest rate is actually much higher than 3000%)

I've been investing money on and off for a couple decades now (not in US though), and I've never heard compounded interest noted in the standard text. With correct notation, if you have your money in 6% nightly interest, that means you get (6/365)% per day, which gives you around 6.2% compounded yearly.

I'm often wrong about these things, so I just asked a bank manager about it. She confirmed that rates are quoted yearly but as simple interest, with the compounding frequency specified. So the correct notation for BTCS&T's 7% weekly deposit should be "365% weekly interest". Which gives you around 3405% compounded (yearly).

3405% by itself, besides being the wrong (deceptive?) notation, lacks the compounding frequency information. There are many investment vehicles that don't compound yearly. Daily and monthly are often quoted. Having said that, 7% weekly is also wrong (but probably less deceptive).

OK, so if I'm understanding this correctly, if someone chooses to have their interest paid out and manually reinvests it by sending them back to their deposit address that'd put them over the 5% limit pretty quickly and they wouldn't get the bonus, but if they automatically reinvest the same amount of interest they can increase their account balance by far more than the 5% limit each month. That's quite interesting - it effectively gives an incentive for people who want to reinvest to keep the interest money within the scheme, which means that if it is a ponzi it can keep going for longer because pirateat40 no longer needs to keep as many cold hard bitcoins around for the weekly interest payments. (Plus, presumably if they then decide to manually withdraw a substantial portion of the interest they'd be penalized fot that too.)

Also, remember that he's doing this at the same time as opening up BS&T to new deposits, so that he's no longer going to be dependant on pass-through funds to bring new money into BS&T. What's more, whilst the interest rates on direct investments are still high enough to get people interested they're much cheaper for him than the same amounts of new deposits through passthroughs which are paid the top interest rate. Plus, his incentives for investing more money initially and for automatically reinvesting your interest work much better on individual investors than they do on investors who're going through pass-through funds.

Come to think of it, this doesn't even sound like a very effective way to discourage depositing more money unless you're a PPT or not depositing that much. How much do you have to deposit before the extra interest on the additional deposit far outweighs the reward lost?

The extended time you speak of is right at a year and its in a brand new/emerging technology.  Look at any brand new, rapidly growing company and their rates will be off the charts and of course if you extrapolate those rates to infinite they look ridiculous. That's part of the point that the 'pirate supporters' are trying to make.. a high interest rate isn't a clear indicator all by itself.

Who is they ??
I understand that it's a good strategy to associate Micon with anyone having high doubts on pirate and friends (to say the least), but it won't work...

They wont know it cause they dont do any research.

bitdaytrade != mybitcointrade

Yes, the personal attacks are only to derail the actual discussion. 

With Pirate so silent and his thread locked, you can be sure he is still pulling the strings behind the scenes, encouraging the affiliates to mobilize the FUDdettes into fighting this thread. 

TY to the intelligent readers keeping this thread on track.  Keep dropping facts backed up with links and do not use personal insults. 

Hey, you Pirate supporters, could you point me to ONE case in history where someone has paid consistently several thousand percent REAL interest rate for an unlimited number of debtors over extended time where the nature of the business was not disclosed to investors that didn't turn out to be a scam.

'Cause these always are scams in the end.

It's an entirely different thing to invest in SHARES of a company. That might actually generate astronomical revenue, if you're very lucky.