Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 39.

miscreanity

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Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 04:58:18 PM

Several?

Yes.

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 04:58:18 PM

You'd expect for the sort of volume that'd be required to bring in ~30K BTC per week the transactions would be either:

1-Fairly prominent in the blockchain.
2-If dealing in USD (which was one of the early claims if I remember rightly) then you'd expect some additional volume on some of the exchanges, particularly since if pirate were to convert all his liabilities to USD and back each week (dealing in USD) he'd easily eclipse the entire MtGox volume.

Neither Gox nor Pirate are the entire economy. Data shows that both fit well within the overall activity.

Daily transactions: uptrend

Daily transactions excluding the highest volume addresses: uptrend

Mt. Gox USD volume: uptrend

Unique addresses: uptrend

Transaction volume: uptrend

At an estimated 200,000BTC transferred per day, 1,400,000BTC per week is sufficient to contain trading and interest payments related to BTCS&T in addition to all other market activity.

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 04:58:18 PM

It should be possible to provide blockchain transactions or something similar without giving too much about any legit business model away.

How do you know?

Shadow383

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Quote from: miscreanity on August 08, 2012, 04:09:50 PM

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 03:39:07 PM

You can prove that it's not a ponzi if it has a known revenue source outside collecting new deposits that would allow it to pay the rates that it does.
In the absence of one of those...

Several alternate revenue streams have been pointed out repeatedly.

There's no way to prove or disprove their existence and capital movement without revealing more information, but doing so might reduce the competitiveness of BTCS&T.

Several?

You'd expect for the sort of volume that'd be required to bring in ~30K BTC per week the transactions would be either:

1-Fairly prominent in the blockchain.
2-If dealing in USD (which was one of the early claims if I remember rightly) then you'd expect some additional volume on some of the exchanges, particularly since if pirate were to convert all his liabilities to USD and back each week (dealing in USD) he'd easily eclipse the entire MtGox volume.

It should be possible to provide blockchain transactions or something similar without giving too much about any legit business model away.

miscreanity

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Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 03:39:07 PM

You can prove that it's not a ponzi if it has a known revenue source outside collecting new deposits that would allow it to pay the rates that it does.
In the absence of one of those...

Several alternate revenue streams have been pointed out repeatedly.

There's no way to prove or disprove their existence and capital movement without revealing more information, but doing so might reduce the competitiveness of BTCS&T. That's the same situation that exists with the inability of proving or disproving a Ponzi. In the end, everything may be legitimate and Pirate might still decide to simply run off with everything regardless of whether it's a Ponzi or not.

Micon is his own worst enemy even beyond being emotionally unstable, as his actions only benefit Pirate in the following ways:

Sporadic, unorganized withdrawals simply allow a Ponzi to continue operating
Withdrawals allow for continued legitimate operations to provide an elevated return for a longer time before market saturation slows growth

Either way, whomever maintains a deposit (that has already doubled and the principal withdrawn) wins because the risk of default is reduced while returns persist.

Shadow383

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Quote from: peasant on August 08, 2012, 12:50:45 PM

If it's a ponzi there's no way of knowing until it goes bust, unless the accused wish to be more transparent about things. Those deposits also seem to not be guaranteed in most cases. Only time will tell it seems.

You can prove that it's not a ponzi if it has a known revenue source outside collecting new deposits that would allow it to pay the rates that it does.
In the absence of one of those...

Clipse

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Quote from: koin on August 08, 2012, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: Micon on August 08, 2012, 03:18:15 AM

Getchapopcorn ready, the boom is gonna be a fun show.

not so fun for those who lose their money, including those who ran or profited from the ponzi too: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanmaglich/2012/08/08/murder-suicide-at-center-of-potential-245-million-south-african-ponzi-scheme/

Interesting, seems that happened in my backyard(so to speak).

Clipse

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Quote from: Vladimir on August 08, 2012, 11:45:41 AM

Clipse is simply waging "go and prove a negative" campain. Safe to ignore him, he is blabbering utter illogical nonsense.

(It seems 80% of population of this board could use some logic 101)

That is rich coming from the self proclaimed security expert, part owner of a near vapourware magazine(still waiting for issue 2 in coming soon 2013, and Serial orsom ASIC uberbusiness which all tend to hyped up beyond voodoo dolls.

Im not waging anything nor did I start this stupid thread. I am being logical and realistic and asking him to prove his so-called facts but I wouldnt expect anything other than your dull response considering your track record in this forum and your own hyped up bullshit.

If he is purely speculating that its a ponzi he should name it as such, thats not what he is doing here and I am still waiting for the evidence for his facts.

koin

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Quote from: Micon on August 08, 2012, 03:18:15 AM

Getchapopcorn ready, the boom is gonna be a fun show.

not so fun for those who lose their money, including those who ran or profited from the ponzi too: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanmaglich/2012/08/08/murder-suicide-at-center-of-potential-245-million-south-african-ponzi-scheme/

peasant

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Cryptopreneur

If it's a ponzi there's no way of knowing until it goes bust, unless the accused wish to be more transparent about things. Those deposits also seem to not be guaranteed in most cases. Only time will tell it seems.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: Ilikeham on August 08, 2012, 11:44:07 AM

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 11:30:56 AM

Quote from: cst on August 08, 2012, 09:22:33 AM

Hehehe, my thoughts exactly

this guy is hilarious.

It's a shame really, because it's a relevant issue he's trying to bring up. It's just his way of bringing it up that's totally wrong Cheesy

Yep you nailed right on the head. But anyhow; knowledgeable and relevant members have pointed out this same issue with quite well seasoned and reasoned logic.

People do listen, they just wonder if they can jump off the train with their lotto winnings before it derails OR they simply believe it's a long shot gamble and don't care if they lose and some just plainly believe it's a legit business.

And some accept it is a case of Schrodinger's cat with an associated probability distribution. Like every decision in life it is a case of weighing risk and reward and making a decision.

imsaguy

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Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.

Quote from: Vladimir on August 08, 2012, 11:45:41 AM

(It seems 80% of population of this board could use some logic 101)

I'd agree; both sides seem to blabber a bunch without any real logic.

Vladimir

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-

Clipse is simply waging "go and prove a negative" campain. Safe to ignore him, he is blabbering utter illogical nonsense.

(It seems 80% of population of this board could use some logic 101)

Ilikeham

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Quote from: Shadow383 on August 08, 2012, 11:30:56 AM

Quote from: cst on August 08, 2012, 09:22:33 AM

Hehehe, my thoughts exactly

this guy is hilarious.

It's a shame really, because it's a relevant issue he's trying to bring up. It's just his way of bringing it up that's totally wrong Cheesy

Yep you nailed right on the head. But anyhow; knowledgeable and relevant members have pointed out this same issue with quite well seasoned and reasoned logic.

People do listen, they just wonder if they can jump off the train with their lotto winnings before it derails OR they simply believe it's a long shot gamble and don't care if they lose and some just plainly believe it's a legit business.

Shadow383

sr. member

Activity: 336

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Quote from: cst on August 08, 2012, 09:22:33 AM

Hehehe, my thoughts exactly

this guy is hilarious.

It's a shame really, because it's a relevant issue he's trying to bring up. It's just his way of bringing it up that's totally wrong Cheesy

Raoul Duke

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farfiman

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Quote from: Micon on August 08, 2012, 03:27:19 AM

I am not the law, but I represent justice.

cst

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The Cosmos doesn't care about you.

Quote from: Ilikeham on August 08, 2012, 08:38:06 AM

Quote from: Micon on August 08, 2012, 03:27:19 AM

I am not the law, but I represent justice.

Love this line... it's like something right out of a comic book. If you're supposed to be the superhero to Pirate's super villain, you have the cheesy lines for it. I give you full credit there.

This is money, if you want people to take you seriously then act more like an accountant than the crazy street preacher in down town San Francisco. As it is, you're just regurgitating what much more reliable and reasonable membership have already said.

It's just that when you say it, in my mind I see a spandex body suit and steam coming out of your ears with a thought bubble containing your blurb.

Geez, if I were Pirate I'd invent you as my nemesis.

Hehehe, my thoughts exactly

this guy is hilarious.

Ilikeham

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Activity: 238

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Quote from: Micon on August 08, 2012, 03:27:19 AM

I am not the law, but I represent justice.

Love this line... it's like something right out of a comic book. If you're supposed to be the superhero to Pirate's super villain, you have the cheesy lines for it. I give you full credit there.

This is money, if you want people to take you seriously then act more like an accountant than the crazy street preacher in down town San Francisco. As it is, you're just regurgitating what much more reliable and reasonable membership have already said.

It's just that when you say it, in my mind I see a spandex body suit and steam coming out of your ears with a thought bubble containing your blurb.

Geez, if I were Pirate I'd invent you as my nemesis.

Clipse

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Activity: 504

Merit: 502

Quote from: Micon on August 08, 2012, 03:23:43 AM

Quote from: Clipse on August 07, 2012, 04:08:25 PM

Quote from: Micon on August 07, 2012, 01:37:29 PM

Quote from: Micon on August 07, 2012, 10:27:15 AM

so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out?

[snip]A LOAD OF BLABBERING[/snip]

Please answer me with all your evidence of him STEALING $1M+ USD as you stated. You dont claim he will steal it, you claimed now that he is currently/allready stealing it in your own words which I have requoted again.

Sorry similar examples doesnt constitute as facts even though it might give you some strange arousal thinking you are the GOTCHA MAN.

If you lack the fundamental command of the english language and dont understand that you expressed his theft as something that allready occurred then you should really hit up books other than poker-related.

PS. Nothing will ever beat your own financial LULZ 500% expected interest within 24hrs on loan that you got scammed for, NOW THATS going down in history as the biggest turd.

Aw man really? "A LOAD OF BLABBERING" ?

citing clear examples from multiple sources vs. Pirateat40's own words drawing extreme similarities, almost to the T?

u got nothing to reply to my actual post full of facts and links?

You pointed out zero facts of him stealing any money, again please try to point me to evidence that he is stealing money. Those ponzi scheme examples is just that examples and not facts. Again I didnt expect you to understand the difference with your narrow view over anything.

You are afterall the 500% interest man and I am sure you must have been burned even more than that before cause that is just fucking gullable.

Micon

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FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: dank on August 07, 2012, 04:43:56 PM

Quote from: Micon on July 30, 2012, 07:51:16 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

3) I know exactly what he is doing, how he does it and why. It is not a ponzi. It is a a legit business taking advantage of a rare economic opportunity that was just explained to you better and more detail than I have seen anywhere else.

Seems like we are past the denial / drank the kool-aid theory.

BurtW - you know exactly what you are doing - it's shameful and I hate you for doing it. You are knowingly defrauding many users, making a small profit yourself, and helping the largest BTC scammer ever run a scam.

I hope you get Dox'd / wish I met you to take a pic.

So that justifies hating him for it?

yes, I hate those doing intentional harm to my beloved bitcoin in order to make a quick, dishonest buck like yourself. You pray on the naive and are doing evil, not good.

I am not the law, but I represent justice. I hope you are also Dox'd, running your bullshit DankBank ponzi is bullshit too. Unless you are financing drug sales, at which point you may be sustainable. If anyone ever posts a drug-growing-silkroad-selling bond or investment op, I want to see some pix of the plants.

Micon

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FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: Clipse on August 07, 2012, 04:08:25 PM

Quote from: Micon on August 07, 2012, 01:37:29 PM

Quote from: Micon on August 07, 2012, 10:27:15 AM

so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out?

[snip]A LOAD OF BLABBERING[/snip]

Please answer me with all your evidence of him STEALING $1M+ USD as you stated. You dont claim he will steal it, you claimed now that he is currently/allready stealing it in your own words which I have requoted again.

Sorry similar examples doesnt constitute as facts even though it might give you some strange arousal thinking you are the GOTCHA MAN.

If you lack the fundamental command of the english language and dont understand that you expressed his theft as something that allready occurred then you should really hit up books other than poker-related.

PS. Nothing will ever beat your own financial LULZ 500% expected interest within 24hrs on loan that you got scammed for, NOW THATS going down in history as the biggest turd.

Aw man really? "A LOAD OF BLABBERING" ?

citing clear examples from multiple sources vs. Pirateat40's own words drawing extreme similarities, almost to the T?

u got nothing to reply to my actual post full of facts and links?

Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 39. (Read 119653 times)