Bet thread updated …
Check also the Bets of Bitcoin bet.
Only the very gullible believe what BurtW says, because he is in on the Ponzi scheme, trying to lure newbies into parting with their money. You have been warned.
Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 42. (Read 119665 times)
August 07, 2012, 01:47:54 AM
Check also the Bets of Bitcoin bet.
Only the very gullible believe what BurtW says, because he is in on the Ponzi scheme, trying to lure newbies into parting with their money. You have been warned.
August 06, 2012, 08:33:39 PM
>Bitcoin itself went from pennies to $32
>Thats a lot more than 3000%
If you pick the right "year" you get this kind of return (and in fact slightly above it). However it wasn't sustained for longer than a year. Nor was it a steady rise, nor was it based on actual business (and that is why it collapsed 93% from the peak).
I'm still looking for real businesses. And ones with starting capital of > $1000.
The only way I could see getting the return is by getting all of your capital donated (and not counting your donated labor costs) - with zero capital a 3400% return is a lot easier =)
>Thats a lot more than 3000%
If you pick the right "year" you get this kind of return (and in fact slightly above it). However it wasn't sustained for longer than a year. Nor was it a steady rise, nor was it based on actual business (and that is why it collapsed 93% from the peak).
I'm still looking for real businesses. And ones with starting capital of > $1000.
The only way I could see getting the return is by getting all of your capital donated (and not counting your donated labor costs) - with zero capital a 3400% return is a lot easier =)
August 06, 2012, 07:22:19 PM
Can anyone name a business that made a 3400% return in a year?
Bitcoin Savings & Trust
Is there an accepted or official inception date?
Ask one of his first lenders.
August 06, 2012, 07:21:06 PM
Another newbie troll who escaped just long enough to voice his over confident opinion on things he really doesnt understand, Check.
Seriously, this is what irritates me with these threads.
Why is it that every time someone posts something negative about BS&T one of you has to start posting ad-hominem attacks against that person? If it's so illogical in your opinion then fight it with logic.
August 06, 2012, 05:10:30 PM
Bet thread updated: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--97094
Quote
Status of my bet:
Week 1: 10,000 + 700 = 10,700
Ponzi gang, how is your bet going?
Week 1: 10,000 + 700 = 10,700
Ponzi gang, how is your bet going?
"ther's even a nice fresh wind" said the man falling from a skyscraper passing the 5° floor.
Nice how we can't reply to you there... it would maybe have hindered the confidence in BTCS&T you are desperately trying to recreate? Now this makes me even more suspicoius that default is coming in short times.
Another newbie troll who escaped just long enough to voice his over confident opinion on things he really doesnt understand, Check.
You could make a quick buck by offering Micon a loan, he seems to really like those 500% interest rates in 24hrs.
August 06, 2012, 04:28:36 PM
Bet thread updated: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--97094
Quote
Status of my bet:
Week 1: 10,000 + 700 = 10,700
Ponzi gang, how is your bet going?
Week 1: 10,000 + 700 = 10,700
Ponzi gang, how is your bet going?
"ther's even a nice fresh wind" said the man falling from a skyscraper passing the 5° floor.
Nice how we can't reply to you there... it would maybe have hindered the confidence in BTCS&T you are desperately trying to recreate? Now this makes me even more suspicoius that default is coming in short times.
August 06, 2012, 03:21:22 PM
All those "sensible" assertions were asserted here long ago and not a new thing. It is just shills are trying very hard to bury it. You kind of need to read more than one last post of every given person to treat those posts in context.
You, of all people, should know that I've been acknowledging and attempting to temper the emotional fervor accompanying those observations almost since they began. Your memory can't be that short.
Can anyone name a business that made a 3400% return in a year?
Bitcoin Savings & TrustIs there an accepted or official inception date?
miscreanity, are you paid for constantly trying to educate them?
The answer is yes.Correct: I get paid a return on a small deposit with BTCS&T.
August 06, 2012, 02:42:26 PM
Bet thread updated: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--97094
You should link a transaction to the OP and sign it so we know you control the address it came from 
August 06, 2012, 10:58:31 AM
I enjoyed reading about the OP, when I was looking at the GLBSE I figured some of these had to be ponzi scams
August 06, 2012, 05:22:02 AM
There are 50,400 BTC mined each week. Where do they go?
To the miners.Rhetorical question?
Nope. Perhaps Pirate's tapped into some of the largest miners for a supply of coins that would never appear in Gox volume? Perhaps Pirate is mining (I'm not talking about gpumax)?
Half of the miners could give pirate all their coins FOR FREE every week and it wouldn't even cover the interest payments.
If pirate funded a mining farm using USD which pays out in bitcoins that would be immensely profitable. As long as you have a LOT of USD to set that up it easily explains the returns. Imagine if you setup a mining farm using USD then bitcoin prices rose 3000%
Further, if you have a successful fiat based company with excess profits which you funnelled into bitcoin mining the only exposure you have is the cost of production.
TL;DR the pirate had a fat USD wallet to start with
As long as he is profiting more than in usd terms and pumping usd profits into more mining he could theoretically make enough btc each week from those rigs that explains where he makes coins from. People here are claiming there is no actual business model that explains where he is getting the coins from to pay interest. Im showing them there is a possibility that explains the source and makes the pirate NOT a ponzi.
Yeeeeah that's unlikely.
Let us look into what evidence we have:
- the only activity we have objective evidence of is PR, IR, accepting deposits, paying "dividends", using intermediaries.
Let us look into what objective evidence we do not have:
- any economic activity that could even potentially generate profit, let alone at 10% per week level.
I'd say as important as the proportion is the sheer scale of the profit you'd need to generate.- the only activity we have objective evidence of is PR, IR, accepting deposits, paying "dividends", using intermediaries.
Let us look into what objective evidence we do not have:
- any economic activity that could even potentially generate profit, let alone at 10% per week level.
Oh well, interest payments supposed to go out today - based on previous weeks we're looking at about 50-60% reinvestment so as long as he's picked up 15K BTC of new investment this week (and he probably has) payouts for this week should go as usual.
August 06, 2012, 03:06:07 AM
One thing I am looking forward to see is how, once ponzi collapses, some/many of it's victims will defend pirate and his lieutenants and blame everyone else but them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome . I have a hypothesis, this it what will happen, now gotta wait and see if practice will validate the theory.
perhaps it will be a slow, extended flameout?
week 1: "it wasn't a ponzi that collapsed. the funds are all still there, just that bs&t doesn't have access to them until [some future event] occurs."
week 2: "we aren't getting interest anymore but none of our funds were lost. just waiting for the green light to withdraw!
"week 3: "i sure hope pirate is ok. he hasn't updated anything. his 5k went to charity already so that was unexpected."
week 4: "with all these angry people, i'ld remain incommunicado as well. wouldn't you?"
week 5: "there's still no evidence it was a ponzi you guys! fud fud fud that's all you do."
week 5: "it couldn't have been a ponzi. he was making 10% profit every week, people were getting their payments, every week!"
week 6: "how the hell did he get hacked? fml! well, at least that proves it wasn't a ponzi!"
week 7: "why did i keep rolling over the payouts? i would only be down 65% instead of it being a total loss. dumb dumb dumb!"
week 8: "someone should have kept his wine glass in vegas, they can get dna from that you know."
August 06, 2012, 02:09:51 AM
It is difficult to say for sure how many (or few) more weeks the scheme can possibly run, but it seems we are beyond the point where any "investor", except a very small one, could successfully withdraw his entire nominal balance.
Any large withdrawal attempt would now lead to an immediate game over.
Any large withdrawal attempt would now lead to an immediate game over.
What do you consider to be 'large'?
August 06, 2012, 02:09:21 AM
loving Frankie and his debate style.
When is the next round of interest payments from Pirate due? I have the actual popcorn right here
When is the next round of interest payments from Pirate due? I have the actual popcorn right here
Are you that disconnected to not know the interest payments are every Monday?
August 06, 2012, 01:57:57 AM
It is difficult to say for sure how many (or few) more weeks the scheme can possibly run, but it seems we are beyond the point where any "investor", except a very small one, could successfully withdraw his entire nominal balance.
Any large withdrawal attempt would now lead to an immediate game over.
Any large withdrawal attempt would now lead to an immediate game over.
August 06, 2012, 01:45:39 AM
loving Frankie and his debate style.
When is the next round of interest payments from Pirate due? I have the actual popcorn right here
When is the next round of interest payments from Pirate due? I have the actual popcorn right here
August 06, 2012, 01:41:49 AM
miscreanity, are you paid for constantly trying to educate them?
Good question (apart from the word "educate", which I would replace with the word "mislead").
The answer is yes.
Note how he writes foggy prose that is, at closer inspection, a cloud of pure nonsense. He is trying to lure clueless, but awed newbies.
August 06, 2012, 01:33:36 AM
Can anyone name a business that made a 3400% return in a year?
Bitcoin Savings & TrustIt hasn't quite been a year yet...
Actually, it has.
August 06, 2012, 01:15:17 AM
And as a balance to this "substantial information," BTCS&T has basically every hallmark of being a Ponzi scheme including:
So, as between the hypotheses that BTCS&T is (1) a Ponzi scheme or (2) running some crazy Illuminati trading technique and inexplicably paying 3400%, you can surely forgive "team Ponzi" for finding the latter hypothesis much, much more likely. Right?
- Ridiculously above-market rate of return.
- Consistent high returns no matter which way the market goes.
- Completely inscrutable business model.
- Rate premiums for larger deposits and bringing in even larger deposits.
- After the ramp-up, a feigned reluctance to take on more deposits.
- Early adopters promoting the scheme to others and defending the "businessman."
So, as between the hypotheses that BTCS&T is (1) a Ponzi scheme or (2) running some crazy Illuminati trading technique and inexplicably paying 3400%, you can surely forgive "team Ponzi" for finding the latter hypothesis much, much more likely. Right?
That is a solid counterpoint; a few emotionally-charged bits, but sensible
Accusations are one thing; assertions are another. I can admit and respect suspicions leading to the former, not the latter with lack of definitive proof.
All those "sensible" assertions were asserted here long ago and not a new thing. It is just shills are trying very hard to bury it. You kind of need to read more than one last post of every given person to treat those posts in context.
One thing I am looking forward to see is how, once ponzi collapses, some/many of it's victims will defend pirate and his lieutenants and blame everyone else but them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome . I have a hypothesis, this it what will happen, now gotta wait and see if practice will validate the theory.
As for the evidence question. I understand that asking for evidence that it is a ponzi is the same as demanding to prove a negative i.e. to prove that there is no valid underlying biz model. The burden on proof is on pirate, he is the one who asking for money and refuses to provide a proof that he is not running a ponzi (which is simple to prove if true). At the same time he deploys an army of shills to wage his PR war and round up new marks.
Let us look into what evidence we have:
- the only activity we have objective evidence of is PR, IR, accepting deposits, paying "dividends", using intermediaries.
Let us look into what objective evidence we do not have:
- any economic activity that could even potentially generate profit, let alone at 10% per week level.
feel free to add to the list.
August 06, 2012, 12:08:48 AM
Can anyone name a business that made a 3400% return in a year?
Bitcoin Savings & TrustIt hasn't quite been a year yet...
August 05, 2012, 08:56:15 PM
Can anyone name a business that made a 3400% return in a year?
I think some penny mining stocks (exploratory companies that found a deposit) might approach this level. I found this link on the best penny stock performer in 2010 and it only went up 2890%. And that was 1 out of many (thousands?) of penny stocks. The #2 stock only increased by 980%.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10950713/10/10-best-performing-penny-stocks-of-2010.html
I think some penny mining stocks (exploratory companies that found a deposit) might approach this level. I found this link on the best penny stock performer in 2010 and it only went up 2890%. And that was 1 out of many (thousands?) of penny stocks. The #2 stock only increased by 980%.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10950713/10/10-best-performing-penny-stocks-of-2010.html
Bitcoin itself went from pennies to $32
Thats a lot more than 3000%
Jump to: