Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 55. (Read 119653 times)

 BCST is so big and there are so many pass-throughs and derivatives of this gigantic scam when this one falls everything will go boom

I will be watching from the sidelines trying to warn all I can before it explodes.  And the explosion will be an awesome train wreck to watch.  I will be brutally "I told you so"-ing so you fucks listen to me the next time some scammer takes a $1M USD shot at this community.

agree on macro level but still hold true to my original points in this thread:

1)  on the scale of "will BTC work" these ponzi's are minor.  Andresen's used similar words when describing the currency:  "wild, wild west" and in the poker parlance of our times "a no-limit currency"  A poster in this thread said something to the effect of "this will help weed out the stupid" - indeed, but at the extreme benefit of a scammer who will try and scam again after being so successful and easy this time.  

2) The next major headline about bitcoin will likely be about BCST & the derivatives (so shameful, but at the same time laughable - this scammer has a huge affiliate program for his scam).  Think about the scale of the previous BTC thefts and sites that scammed and ran away with the coins - I think mid 6 digits is our current record - and the BTC writers that  know their shit like Jon Matonis will write the story with a headline something like this "$1M+ USD bitcoin ponzi scheme collapses" and the first paragraph will be about a guy named "Pirateat40" with a fake entity called "Bitcoin Savings & Trust" posting that he pays 7% weekly interest and can do so because:


Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.


and stupid internet nerds sent him $1M USD in BTC.  Pirateat40?  Bitcoin Savings & Trust? - now just making me laugh.  He is openly mocking any of you that in any way sent him money.  If you ran or do run a pass-through to make .1% for helping a scammer scam the entire community, you are shameful and I hate you.  If you didn't think you were doing a bad thing when you started and now understand that you are helping an evil scammer scam, please PM me and I can help guide you on how to best dismantle your operation and return max value to your investors.  The few that will listen to me will save their investors at least some of the principle.  If you are running a pass-through, know it's a scam and feel the need to blindly defend Pirate because your .1% per week is at stake then you are also shameful and I also hate you.

2)  these have infected and made laughable the bitcoin stock exchange.  GLBSE cannot possibly allow derivatives of scams to be listed as "bonds."  Again, making BTC in general appear foolish, childish, and with scams around every corner so watch out.

3) IMO, net effect extremely -EV (negative expected value as us stupid gamblers use to describe future equity) to allow these to continue as is and keep them labeled as Lending.  Do we know who the top moderators are on this forum?  who owns it?  This forum is extremely important to spreading BTC.  We must make sure it is in safe hands.

It's possible they'll collapse like dominoes and possibly even take down some legitimate funds with them. When one collapses, people might fear that others are going to collapse too and make a large number of simultaneous withdrawals, forcing others (whether Ponzi or legitimate) into an equity or liquidity crisis.

I would do the same if I were him. People were spamming his thread with fud, what else is he going to do, when he has absolutely no control over the thread (this really is a shitty forum)?


Exactly as you said, it might sound like it, but this is no proof, only speculation.

Well, that really is none of your business

7% ish

Whats the chance all the ponzis will collapse at once ? 

It's time to add me to your list. I've had a change-of-heart with regards to Pirate, and will be depositing in a pass-through.

Hey Micon, it was entertaining over the weekend, but I have real work to do in this small microcosm of bitcoin lending.  I'm going to have to leave you to your crusade.

there are many people who hold an opinion on the matter but they aren't outspoken about it.  when each of these ponzi fund house of cards falls, some people will be hurt badly, others (those who have made most or all of their money back already) will barely be nicked and most will feel no impact at all as they were smart enough to keep a healthy distance.  you don't hear from them.  you probably won't, even if they were asked for their opinion.

this is definitely a circus but it is nowhere near to being significant in bitcoin's progression. just as few today remember or care much about last year's mtgox hack or the mybitcoin fiasco, this too shall pass.

That might be true of some hypothetical scheme. But in the cases listed here, investors are being affirmatively mislead. (Assuming there aren't real investments as the investors are being told.)

Yes, but that doesn't mean what you think it means. "Buyer beware" is just like "pedestrian beware". When you walk in the streets, you better look where you're going because you're the one who will wind up in a hospital or dead if you get hit by a car. But you can't justify reckless driving or intentionally running down pedestrians by saying pedestrians should beware. One has nothing to do with the other.

People are often happy when they are lied to, if they believe the lies. Surely that doesn't justify lying to get someone's money.

Bullshit. A liar has no defense by saying "you shouldn't have believed me". Whether that's true or not, it's no defense of the lair.

If you stumble down a dark street alone in a bad neighborhood with $100 bills sticking out of your pockets, you're going to get robbed. And in a sense, you have nobody to blame but yourself. But don't for a second imagine that this takes any blame away from the robbers or makes what they do justified to even the slightest extent.

The thing is, investors have been told where the money is going:


Pirate has also claimed that BS&T isn't a ponzi, so if it is, investors are clearly being mislead:


(there's a better quote somewhere I'm sure but I couldn't find it).

While I agree that BS&T is very likely a Ponzi, the above is in no way a proof.

See http://www.sparknotes.com/math/geometry3/inductiveanddeductivereasoning/section1.html for a description of what you did ("inductive reasoning") and why it doesn't constitute proof.

Hey Mr. Poker Man! If you have no clue how BTCST is paying the weekly interest "7%", so you better zip it up and try to put your mind into it for a while! Yes BTCST owns a % of all BTC that came to existence, and this is the KEY! Here is a question that may help you while zipping it up thinking about it: If you own 1 to 5% of all BTC that exists what would you do to double your coins once per 3 months?

From what I've read, "investors" aren't being mislead about where their money is going.  They simply aren't being told to a satisfactory degree.  That may be splitting hairs, in your book, but this is a classic example of "buyer beware." 

Obviously some people are pretty happy with the arrangement.  Some aren't. 

With all the information available here and elsewhere, I think you would be hard pressed to say anyone is being "scammed" when people are voluntarily handing over their money based on the info they receive.  If this turns out to be a bust, the "investor" has absolutely nobody to blame but himself.

No, I don't. And I would never attempt to justify government dishonesty any more than I would try to justify any other kind of fraudulent dishonesty. (In fact, government dishonesty bothers me the most both because they're using my money to lie to people and because I'm not free to do business with the "other government" if I don't like it.)

Hi Joel,  I'll have to add this, but do you believe the Government always tells you the truth about what they're doing with your money?

The crux of a Ponzi scheme, what makes it a Ponzi scheme, is that investors are intentionally mislead about where their money is going. They are told that it is being invested when in fact it is being used to enrich the scammer and to pay off earlier investors. They are told the fund is increasing in net worth when in fact it is getting more and more in the red. They are nothing like slot machines or investment risk. They are pure scams.

When you lie to someone to get their money, it doesn't matter whether they "understand the risks" or not. I understand the risk that I might get hit by a car when I cross the street, that doesn't justify someone intentionally running me over.

Don't forget the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time...

Social Security

That's unfair - they print money and rely on new tax payers to pay off the old ones.  That's so obviously a Ponzi scheme it can't be one.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/

You had better add this one.