Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" - page 56. (Read 119653 times)

brain wrapped around it.

1)  what do you think Pirateat40 is doing?

2)  This statement appears on the wikipedia for ponzi scheme:

"Typically extraordinary returns are promised on the investment,[5] and vague verbal constructions such as "hedge futures trading," "high-yield investment programs", "offshore investment" might be used. The promoter sells shares to investors by taking advantage of a lack of investor knowledge or competence, or using claims of a proprietary investment strategy which must be kept secret to ensure a competitive edge."

and this is from Pirateat40's BCST thread:

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.  


Is anyone still bold enough to defend this scam and this scammer?

1)  does it alarm you in any way that Pirateat40 locked his thread?  Why do you think he would do that when he is holding $1M USD worth of BTC?   I think it's because he doesn't want the forum members that understand his scam explaining it in his thread. 

2) You ask me for hard proof.  A Ponzi scheme, as defined by Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme  some highlights:

-- Typically extraordinary returns are promised on the investment,[5] and vague verbal constructions such as "hedge futures trading," "high-yield investment programs", "offshore investment" might be used. The promoter sells shares to investors by taking advantage of a lack of investor knowledge or competence, or using claims of a proprietary investment strategy which must be kept secret to ensure a competitive edge.
-- A Ponzi scheme claims to rely on some esoteric investment approach and often attracts well-to-do investors
-- Ponzi schemes can survive simply by persuading most existing participants to reinvest their money
-- Initially the promoter will pay out high returns to attract more investors, and to lure current investors into putting in additional money. Other investors begin to participate, leading to a cascade effect. The "return" to the initial investors is paid out of the investments of new entrants, and not out of profits.
-- Promoters also try to minimize withdrawals by offering new plans to investors, often where money is frozen for a longer period of time, in exchange for higher returns.

sound at all like BCST?

Proof Ponzi

3)  you seem to either be invested in BCST or running your own Ponzi - which is it?

wait you think because Pirateat40 has a $1M+ USD ponzi scheme it's not bad for bitcoin because it's only ~ 1% of total BTC?  you should say it like this:

"HOLY SHIT HE HAS 1% OF ALL BTC "INVESTED" IN HIS SCAM!  Over $1M USD!  HE MUST BE STOPPED"

you don't care at all that a guy is scamming anyone stupid enough to send him BTC right here on these forums, and he has already acquired $1M USD+ ?  this seems alarming, extremely wrong, horrible for bitcoin, and something should be done about it.

I think, trying to relabel the Lending category is currently hopeless. There are too many people around who want to believe that those are genuine businesses.

I also think you are overestimating the damage these scams are actually doing. Even pirateat40 is estimated at only $1m, which is a small fraction of the total bitcoin value.

On the positive side bitcoin users are learning fast. We have seen a price bubble already, which developed at over 100 times the speed of a similar bubble on the exchanges in 1929. People have learned the lesson, and a bubble as extreme as that may not repeat itself.

Now people are going to learn about Ponzi schemes. After the first few shut down, people will learn that lesson as well.

Another good thing is that each of these experiences cleans the bitcoin community of its stupidest members. To hand your money over to somebody you don't know, but who promises you 3,300% interest per year without explaining how he does it, and all that in the face of very explicit warnings, you have to be enormously stupid. If you don't want such people around, just let the thing run its course.

I agree that most likely all of these schemes stating weekly interest rates are scams. Those who already proposed to include the entire Lending category in your list are probably right.

I was going to answer this..but... ughh... I'm just tired of it....

Yeah, this might make sense for someone without access to credit--for a couple months. But why take in increasing amounts of money after you've turned it over a couple of times in your fabulously profitable scheme?

Again, the question is not whether someone can get that ROI. People do it all the time. The question is why someone would pay so much for credit (unless they're trying to attract as much as they can before disappearing).

One way to look at it is that government red tape costs 30% a month so you are only left with .01% in the traditional finance sector

Now I'm going to start feeling sorry for Micon.  I must be very stupid (as he noted above) and he is turning into a parody of what he vainly tried to prevent.

(yes - this is as close as I get to trolling - but this has turned into one of the more entertaining threads in my household.  i should get MNW and Phinneas to look in, or even LouxGaroux for some more serious dissection of the thread.)

Must be a real pain in the arse to realise that real economic activity can deliver 2%/week or more.  On that basis, Micon shouldn't be in the bitcoin world at all.

No, it doesn't make your point.

The returns are coming from an economic environment that's growing several orders of magnitude faster than Mongolia's. Moving money is a lot faster than moving machinery. Same principle, different assets. The smaller an economy is, the more growth it can incur and the faster that growth can happen.

If the SDR were introduced from zero, not being valued from a basket of currencies as it currently is, and adoption forced upon citizens by their respective governments in place of domestic currencies, the growth rate would be much greater than Bitcoin's current ~30% per year, and the returns from investment schemes would be far greater than a paltry 7% per week.

Of course, that would burn itself out very quickly. As I've said before, what Pirate is doing can last as long as Bitcoin itself continues growing.

The first year growth rate for Bitcoin was 100% - wrap your brain around that.

Yes, If I had no money to invest - why not?... 

You call yourself a man of science yet you provide no  hard proof? Not sure if serious  

It's his thread, he can do whatever he wants with it (and so can you with yours)

Furthermore this whole thread should be moved to speculation 

Do you realize you just made my point in spades?

the whiskeyandgunpowder article is about an insanely high YEARLY interest rate of 16%  - Pirate and similar ponzis are only offering 200x more interest than that

You should preach the almighty word of shame to Mongolia!

Their banks offer 1.33% monthly in the traditional financial markets. That's up from about 1% last year!

Normally, I wouldn't say this, but your sheer idiocy is well beyond normal... GTFO Micon, you tool.

I fully agree that ponzi schemes should be allowed to be run.  We as a BTC community should categorize them correctly.  "lending" is not what I or any reasonable man of science would call this. 

Further more, who runs this board? 

why can Pirateat40 lock his giant ponzi thread?

hi scammer.

1)  it also shocks me that there are so many.  just because the list of scams is long doesn't mean they all can't be scams.

2)  you are running a shameful scam.  please return what every of your "investor" money you have left and do not scam please

3)  BDT added to list / starting on GLBSE instruments -- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-bdt-3-weekly-interest-bond-backed-by-bitdaytrade-93445   another 3% / wk like it's easy.  

Please guys, list me all of these, and I mean all of these in any subforum, on any exchange, etc.  We must do this for the betterment of bitcoin.  If any operators of these "investment" funds can show me any proof of doing any sort of business that could sustain these yields by all means start embarrassing yourself.  Any operator or proponent of these scams is welcome to call me on my podcast and debate me live. 

I see you listened to the community and successfully added every single depositing service as one of your, "List of Ponzis". I will take this as your official decree Lord Micon, and I vow to withdraw every penny I have deposited with these scum investors, for your word is the law that dictates my every action.

I found a good one:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/announcement-asic-mining-processor-by-butterfly-labs-87934

And another:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bryan-micons-list-of-btc-ponzi-schemes-that-should-not-be-listed-as-lending-94900

Just take my tip and add the whole lending subforum to the list. There's essentially no lenders/borrowers that offer less then 1% a week here.

seem to be batting 1000 with Ponzi-scam runners saying I am only doing this to help a guy with a huge bet that the Ponzi will fail.