Bryan Micon's List of Non-BCST Ponzi's Still Running (with credit rating) - page 4.

dank

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You cannot kill love

Quote from: Micon on September 03, 2012, 11:53:25 AM

Also of note, here is the write up of BCST, in Slovenian:

http://www.racunalniske-novice.com/novice/dogodki-in-obvestila/bitconi-vredni-vec-milijonov-evrov-izpuhteli-v-piramidni-shemi.html?GSM36f88fbc4c3c56feeb257a445ff23069

while the google-translate is worth a chuckle, these are the type of stories these scams generate. Yes most people are stupid, and will generally read "look, that scam currency again" - well even though they don't understand, to make bitcoin widely accepted they have to trust it. It's so imperative that the 90%+ of the humans that will hopefully use bitcoin and won't ever understand it completely trust it - that's what makes it work. let's start building the trust and not killing it.

Then why is it that you don't come off as a trustworthy guy?

Micon

legendary

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FPV Drone Pilot

Also of note, here is the write up of BCST, in Slovenian:

http://www.racunalniske-novice.com/novice/dogodki-in-obvestila/bitconi-vredni-vec-milijonov-evrov-izpuhteli-v-piramidni-shemi.html?GSM36f88fbc4c3c56feeb257a445ff23069

while the google-translate is worth a chuckle, these are the type of stories these scams generate. Yes most people are stupid, and will generally read "look, that scam currency again" - well even though they don't understand, to make bitcoin widely accepted they have to trust it. It's so imperative that the 90%+ of the humans that will hopefully use bitcoin and won't ever understand it completely trust it - that's what makes it work. let's start building the trust and not killing it.

Micon

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Quote from: 556j on September 03, 2012, 08:03:29 AM

Bryan is mad because his poker "friends" think bitcoin is a scam.

http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?796-Top-10-Reasons-Why-Bryan-Micon-is-Piece-of-Shit-Scumbag

You can't fix stupid. People that cannot tell the difference between "bitcoin was a currency used in a scam" and "bitcoin is a scam" aren't going to offer anything to bitcoin. Your illegal gambling site stands to gain a small bump. However I believe it would be very small. And it seems poker players have a lot more reasons to avoid your site than just the fact it uses btc. The accusactions of you using site admin status to game your players is interesting.

I think at some point you do more harm to your message than good. I do agree most everything in longterm offers is some variation of class scams. But the way you go about things (hostile, aggressive, illogical) would actually add some credibility to the things you are trying to protect sealswithclubs (I mean the community) from. You could learn some things from Joel on that front. I know perzonally I will avoid swc. Mainly because the admin abuse/bot accusactions seem as likely to me as the ponzi/scam ones. Supported by the way you act here and your googabled reputation.

1) That post is from a long time troll, in a thread populated by long time trolls, on a site populated by long time trolls. Read the entire thread - click on the OP and see all of his posts, scroll a bit... I think you can see a pattern of trolling + wild, false accusations - it's a culture of stupid, and I've recently exited it. Not meant to be taken seriously

2) Freemoney owns SealsWithClubs. I'm the pro there and help market the site. The software we use, Mavens, has no such "admin access" - again you are reading a troll whose message certainly worked as intended. SealsWithClubs has a rock solid history and if players were getting hole-carded by management you would have heard complaints. Download the software yourself. Msg Briggsoft as a concerned possible buyer of the software - you just cannot hole card on Mavens. Some on this board have poked extensively at the software, and I'm proud to say it's passed all tests so far.

3) I agree I get emotional and sometimes post aggressively. I promise you it stems from my passion for BTC and desire to make it better.

556j

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Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Bryan is mad because his poker "friends" think bitcoin is a scam.

http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?796-Top-10-Reasons-Why-Bryan-Micon-is-Piece-of-Shit-Scumbag

You can't fix stupid. People that cannot tell the difference between "bitcoin was a currency used in a scam" and "bitcoin is a scam" aren't going to offer anything to bitcoin. Your illegal gambling site stands to gain a small bump. However I believe it would be very small. And it seems poker players have a lot more reasons to avoid your site than just the fact it uses btc. The accusactions of you using site admin status to game your players is interesting.

I think at some point you do more harm to your message than good. I do agree most everything in longterm offers is some variation of class scams. But the way you go about things (hostile, aggressive, illogical) would actually add some credibility to the things you are trying to protect sealswithclubs (I mean the community) from. You could learn some things from Joel on that front. I know perzonally I will avoid swc. Mainly because the admin abuse/bot accusactions seem as likely to me as the ponzi/scam ones. Supported by the way you act here and your googabled reputation.

matthewh3

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Activity: 1372

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Quote from: EskimoBob on September 02, 2012, 04:17:20 PM

Here is one for you. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/diablo-mining-company-77469
Not a ponzy but this guy is wasting investors coin fast.
It has lost more value in August than any of the defaulted PPT's.

What happened??

Micon

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Quote from: moni3z on September 02, 2012, 06:16:45 PM

imho, bitcoin is perfectly suited for Ponzi/HYIP schemes. Not only can you sell the fact that bitcoin speculation can potentially pay off, but you can easily automate the scheme and run it even more anonymously than perfect money and liberty reserve. I'm surprised there isn't a massive bitcoin HYIP forum, and only a handful here. The only difference between the programs here and those other forums is the HYIP admin's didn't have to invest $50,000+ in advertising and listing fees to start their ponzi.

HYIP investment is just another form of gambling. Just like poker you believe you have the skills to game the system and beat everybody else who ends up losing.

1) The mods here gave (still give) stickies to Ponzi lists and before Pirate imploded the Lending forum had PPT stickies - best advertising you can get, and free?

2) I understand there exists "sharp" HYIP players - i.e. getting your principle out before the boom after making some interest - it does appear you could make money doing this. I would personally never attempt this. You are making a scammer huge money while profitting extremely small yourself. Unlike poker, the losers are completely duped - they thought they were "investing." Also the duped masses must come in teaming numbers for the scammer to make big $ and the +EV HYIP player to profit small.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 04:50:53 PM

Everyone says "look guys - people borrow at X% per week So I borrow at (X-1)% per week from you, handle all the BS, and we'll share the profits" At the current size of this community, you could do this for a few hundred coins per month and make a very small profit.

Until your first default.

moni3z

hero member

Activity: 899

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Although I think this guy Micon is 100% correct, it won't make a difference. Not like everybody on this board doesn't realize they're investing in ponzi schemes. They do it anyways because they believe they'll get out before the scam goes tits up and make a quick couple of K. Look at all these ponzi's, this is not unique to bitcoin. Notice how senior members of the board get in early and get out quickly after making their couple of thousands. Then the scam bloats and pops, HYIP admin runs away with all the funds, restarts a new scheme and repeats.

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/f261-.html
http://www.hyipstalk.com/hyip-discussion/
http://www.hyipsurftalk.com/current-hyips-discussion/
http://www.dreamteammoney.com/index.php?showforum=111
http://www.italkcash.com/
http://www.hyipexplorer.com/member/
http://www.moneymakergroup.com/HYIP-High-Yield-Investme-f9.html (over 3 million posts in this HYIP forum base)

imho, bitcoin is perfectly suited for Ponzi/HYIP schemes. Not only can you sell the fact that bitcoin speculation can potentially pay off, but you can easily automate the scheme and run it even more anonymously than perfect money and liberty reserve. I'm surprised there isn't a massive bitcoin HYIP forum, and only a handful here. The only difference between the programs here and those other forums is the HYIP admin's didn't have to invest $50,000+ in advertising and listing fees to start their ponzi.

HYIP investment is just another form of gambling. Just like poker you believe you have the skills to game the system and beat everybody else who ends up losing.

Scott J

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Quote from: Shadow383 on September 02, 2012, 04:55:02 PM

A lot of bigger loans get made over IRC. For example Patrick has set up some big 4-figure BTC loans to gigavps over IRC. It's still possible (indeed likely) that some of the lenders are scamming, but your argument is flawed.

Yes, Micon's thinking seems to be based on the small selection of loan requests placed in the lending subforum. He underestimates the size of lending market.

People who take out large loans probably have existing relationships with the lendors and contact them directly. No need to post a thread.

bitlane

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I heart thebaron

Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 04:50:53 PM

Judging by PatrickHarnett's amateur-hour "My First Balance Sheet" for Starfish:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett

July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
- 14 loans repaid (approx 7800BTC)
- 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
- 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
- deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

looks like he is loaning out $88k USD currently. Seems like the community couldn't support a fraction of this.

Hey Bryan, I don't want to get in the middle of this, but there are a few things that you are missing, in the current view of your 'Starfish Microscope'.....

I have borrowed from Pattrick previously at decent rates and I know for a fact that he also currently finances certain hardware purchases, so the $88k is very believable and from what I know, may even be lower than normal due to the recent uncertainty in the hardware marketplace with upcoming technology emerging.

...just a thought, as it was before 'your time' here.
Allan

Shadow383

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Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 04:50:53 PM

Quote from: Scott J on September 02, 2012, 01:32:29 PM

Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 05:46:58 AM

Quote from: Metal on September 02, 2012, 04:32:05 AM

Clearly, the "How to Identify a Ponzi" post wasn't clear enough. The very first "hint" that something "might" be a ponzi was: > 50% APR.

Indeed, it makes no sense to ask people to lend you money at those ridiculously high rates. It's literally pissing away money. Even credit card companies' usury rates are nowhere near as bad.

So, props to Micon for trying to make it clearer. Too bad nobody will listen, as usual.

I ask you to join me Metal.

This culture of blatant scamming is embarrassing legit BTC operations like SealsWithClubs. We can't be known as the scam-currency and expect to grow.

Do you accept that some people borrow and pay back BTC at 10% per month in the lending section?

Do you accept that someone could borrow BTC for 1%/week, lend it out for 2.5% per week, then pay it back?

These are very good questions and are key to understanding these scams:

1) Yes, I fully accept that there are a handful of legitimate users borrowing at these high rates (more than 1% per week, 10% for a 1 month loan, etc)

2) however, there are not nearly enough of them (go add up a month's worth) to support the giant sizes of these high interest borrowing scams. Vescudo alone has $25k USD on deposit with him. RustyRyan has $6k USD on deposit. PatrickHarnett has $100k+ with him.

Everyone says "look guys - people borrow at X% per week So I borrow at (X-1)% per week from you, handle all the BS, and we'll share the profits" At the current size of this community, you could do this for a few hundred coins per month and make a very small profit.

Judging by PatrickHarnett's amateur-hour "My First Balance Sheet" for Starfish:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett

July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
- 14 loans repaid (approx 7800BTC)
- 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
- 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
- deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

looks like he is loaning out $88k USD currently. Seems like the community couldn't support a fraction of this.

A lot of bigger loans get made over IRC. For example Patrick has set up some big 4-figure BTC loans to gigavps over IRC. It's still possible (indeed likely) that some of the lenders are scamming, but your argument is flawed.

Micon

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Quote from: Scott J on September 02, 2012, 01:32:29 PM

Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 05:46:58 AM

Quote from: Metal on September 02, 2012, 04:32:05 AM

Clearly, the "How to Identify a Ponzi" post wasn't clear enough. The very first "hint" that something "might" be a ponzi was: > 50% APR.

Indeed, it makes no sense to ask people to lend you money at those ridiculously high rates. It's literally pissing away money. Even credit card companies' usury rates are nowhere near as bad.

So, props to Micon for trying to make it clearer. Too bad nobody will listen, as usual.

I ask you to join me Metal.

This culture of blatant scamming is embarrassing legit BTC operations like SealsWithClubs. We can't be known as the scam-currency and expect to grow.

Do you accept that some people borrow and pay back BTC at 10% per month in the lending section?

Do you accept that someone could borrow BTC for 1%/week, lend it out for 2.5% per week, then pay it back?

These are very good questions and are key to understanding these scams:

1) Yes, I fully accept that there are a handful of legitimate users borrowing at these high rates (more than 1% per week, 10% for a 1 month loan, etc)

2) however, there are not nearly enough of them (go add up a month's worth) to support the giant sizes of these high interest borrowing scams. Vescudo alone has $25k USD on deposit with him. RustyRyan has $6k USD on deposit. PatrickHarnett has $100k+ with him.

Everyone says "look guys - people borrow at X% per week So I borrow at (X-1)% per week from you, handle all the BS, and we'll share the profits" At the current size of this community, you could do this for a few hundred coins per month and make a very small profit.

Judging by PatrickHarnett's amateur-hour "My First Balance Sheet" for Starfish:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett

July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
- 14 loans repaid (approx 7800BTC)
- 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
- 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
- deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

looks like he is loaning out $88k USD currently. Seems like the community couldn't support a fraction of this.

greyhawk

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Activity: 952

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I love the part where he goes "I can't be labelled a scammer. I am a forum mod." Cool

EskimoBob

legendary

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Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

Here is one for you. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/diablo-mining-company-77469
Not a ponzy but this guy is wasting investors coin fast.
It has lost more value in August than any of the defaulted PPT's.

totaleclipseofthebank

sr. member

Activity: 451

Merit: 250

You should add Obsi's 1%/day ponzi scheme to this list. OBSI.HRPT

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closing-91646

Also, obsi's futurefund seems like a ridiculous scam. FUTUREFUND

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-87093

Scott J

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 05:46:58 AM

Quote from: Metal on September 02, 2012, 04:32:05 AM

Clearly, the "How to Identify a Ponzi" post wasn't clear enough. The very first "hint" that something "might" be a ponzi was: > 50% APR.

Indeed, it makes no sense to ask people to lend you money at those ridiculously high rates. It's literally pissing away money. Even credit card companies' usury rates are nowhere near as bad.

So, props to Micon for trying to make it clearer. Too bad nobody will listen, as usual.

I ask you to join me Metal.

This culture of blatant scamming is embarrassing legit BTC operations like SealsWithClubs. We can't be known as the scam-currency and expect to grow.

Do you accept that some people borrow and pay back BTC at 10% per month in the lending section?

Do you accept that someone could borrow BTC for 1%/week, lend it out for 2.5% per week, then pay it back?

Shadow383

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitlane on September 02, 2012, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: Dansker on September 02, 2012, 12:41:09 PM

Doesn't it simply prove that bitcoins are in fact becoming an accepted currency, now that all the scammers are here?

I would be more concerned if there were no scammers; then we'd have to worry!

So by implication, if it's not worth stealing, it's not worth anything ?...lol

Yeah pretty much.
Personally I can't wait for the first time I see a nigerian scammer try to explain to someone how to set up a MtGox account.

bitlane

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

I heart thebaron

Quote from: Dansker on September 02, 2012, 12:41:09 PM

Doesn't it simply prove that bitcoins are in fact becoming an accepted currency, now that all the scammers are here?

I would be more concerned if there were no scammers; then we'd have to worry!

So by implication, if it's not worth stealing, it's not worth anything ?...lol

Dansker

hero member

Activity: 740

Merit: 500

Hello world!

Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2012, 05:46:58 AM

We can't be known as the scam-currency and expect to grow.

Doesn't it simply prove that bitcoins are in fact becoming an accepted currency, now that all the scammers are here?

I would be more concerned if there were no scammers; then we'd have to worry!

AndrewBUD

hero member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 502

Quote from: bitlane on September 02, 2012, 10:00:32 AM

Quote from: Shadow383 on September 02, 2012, 09:17:25 AM

Quote from: bitlane on September 02, 2012, 05:52:44 AM

Look at GPUMAX, a 'Mining Service' ? Clearly a Money Laundering Operation, withheld miner payouts for days during this 'Pirate Fiasco' yet they get a quick taste of Bitcoins again and EVERYONE flocks back to them in droves.

Although, payments are once again current. I just got paid by them again. Hey, maybe I have a part of your "2650" BTC Wink

And there it is. Regardless of what Trendon has done or is involved in doing, at the end of the day, the community at large seems to have spoken again and what they are saying is: MONEY TALKS.

People can not be cured of GREED and will continue to use that service. As I have said previously, I was booted out of GPUMAX in Feb or March for 1 week, then got back in. I finally quit (by my own doing) in May. I didn't care about the extra $5/day I would make.

I would never use that GPUmax,,, Stuck to the regular pools from day 1...

Topic: Bryan Micon's List of Non-BCST Ponzi's Still Running (with credit rating) - page 4. (Read 13326 times)