BTC has too few coins to function as a global currency. - page 2.

topesis

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Quote from: SONG GEET on October 13, 2016, 05:51:38 AM

21 million is not actually a small amount and i think it can function as global currency as even even 1 satoshi can be cosidered or transafered in bitcoin so there will be 21x10⁸ million amount of satoshi enough to function as global currency.

I like you assessment of the Bitcoin, my own concern is not the 21 million amount but the miners and the transaction fees, I read how the Rothchids took over the bank of England and this kind of move is possible in future if care is not taken

wikenpp

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Quote from: Oralmat on October 13, 2016, 05:47:43 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on October 10, 2016, 11:11:41 AM

I don't think that is important how much Bitcoins exist in the world.
In fact, it will be even better than we have less bitcoin available.
In such way, value of Bitcoin will increase and we will have profit from it

Bitcoin is already global currency and people from all over the world can buy, sell or keep Bitcoins in their wallets.
If demand for Bitcoin will be high, its price will also increase a lot, and this price will become to high for average users.
So, don't worry about it, free market will regulate everything.

Agreed, i am really agree with you, bitcoin is already global crypto currency, we can see within 7 years, all over the world is using the bitcoins, and the number of the people day to day is increasing and it is a proof that people like it and want to do investment in bitcoin, Even other more crypto currencies are here but people like it more than others.

I do think that Bitcoin in the future is going to be much bigger and better because it is going to become more popular. Everyone in the world can make use of Bitcoin you only need internet to do so you can already see it as an global currency if you ask me.
But I also think that they then need to release more Bitcoin in the future if they want to have more users.

requester

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right now we have enough btc according to its user. but with time bitcoin user will increase and at that time we will use satoshi and to send 1 or 2 Satoshi we we'll have very less transaction fees. and at that time price of 1 bitcoin week also rise to $2000 . so you can think of the situation.

shield132

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Why it is few coins for it's price? If 1 bitcoin would be 1 dollar, than yes, it would be impossible to use it worldwide but as you see, bitcoin's price is up to 600 dollar and there are total up to 15 900 000 bitcoins and also you can use globally, there is no limit of country if we don't mean any country's policy about using of bitcoin.

So I think that number of coins and it's price isn't too few tu use it worldwidely.

hajimasan

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

This debate has been around for ages. I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

still your is right at your place . but in my opinion the idea behind the 1 satoshi was a prediction that the value of 1 btc will increase in that much amount which can attain atleast 0.1$=1 satoshi ( unfortunately it is not much used by whole world so the price is very low )

fatima zuhra

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i think the number of coins is increasing day day, the minors are providing the bitcoin in the market on regular bases and i think it is really completing the requirements of the users.

btvGainer

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on October 08, 2016, 03:50:58 AM

ok lets take this one step at a time.
you say bitcoin becomes a global currency, so in that case the price should rise up a lot first because of the adoption (simply more demand > higher price)

first of all it will never be "global" nothing is ever global. so lets say the price goes up to $10,000 since so many users like this number then 1 cent is 0.000001BTC (0.000002BTC if it goes to $5000)

so it is safe to assume 1 satoshi is worth something eventually.

with that in mind there is not 21 million coins but there are 21e14 (2,100,000,000,000,000) coins available so there is enough coins to go around. (keep in mind there is nothing called decimal point in bitcoin code, for example right now what you see as 0.1BTC is what your GUI shows you in reality you should see 10000000 instead)

Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

two things i got to say to this:
1) fees will change with price. and it has already changed a lot of times
2) it has been said before and i say it again if 1 satoshi has a value in fiat then bitcoin can be divided into a smaller amount (0.1, 0.01 satoshi)

Moreover if such situation exist we can keep bitcoin for high value transactions only and not for our day to day purchase

SONG GEET

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21 million is not actually a small amount and i think it can function as global currency as even even 1 satoshi can be cosidered or transafered in bitcoin so there will be 21x10⁸ million amount of satoshi enough to function as global currency.

Oralmat

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Quote from: Daniel91 on October 10, 2016, 11:11:41 AM

I don't think that is important how much Bitcoins exist in the world.
In fact, it will be even better than we have less bitcoin available.
In such way, value of Bitcoin will increase and we will have profit from it

Bitcoin is already global currency and people from all over the world can buy, sell or keep Bitcoins in their wallets.
If demand for Bitcoin will be high, its price will also increase a lot, and this price will become to high for average users.
So, don't worry about it, free market will regulate everything.

Agreed, i am really agree with you, bitcoin is already global crypto currency, we can see within 7 years, all over the world is using the bitcoins, and the number of the people day to day is increasing and it is a proof that people like it and want to do investment in bitcoin, Even other more crypto currencies are here but people like it more than others.

Daniel91

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I don't think that is important how much Bitcoins exist in the world.
In fact, it will be even better than we have less bitcoin available.
In such way, value of Bitcoin will increase and we will have profit from it

Bitcoin is already global currency and people from all over the world can buy, sell or keep Bitcoins in their wallets.
If demand for Bitcoin will be high, its price will also increase a lot, and this price will become to high for average users.
So, don't worry about it, free market will regulate everything.

traderethereum

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Quote from: countryfree on October 09, 2016, 06:26:24 PM

There could be only one BTC and it would be enough. The average human would only get a tiny fraction of it, but it would be fine. Just like Earth. There's only one Earth, with the average guy only owning a few square meters.

i agree with this, there are no other bitcoin that would be as bitcoin. maybe other altcoins will follow the increasing of the price but the altcoin can not replace bitcoin.

i think bitcoin not really show the high potential so we don't know yet what is the full benefits of bitcoin so there are many people in the world that still afraid that they can get scammed by bitcoin.

groll

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I was thinking that bitcoin is divisible and composes of 100M satoshi but it was already part of your question. It is really hard to think now to answer your question. I think if bitcoin become a global currency, the developer of bitcoin, the programmer Mr. Satoshi would do some additional bitcoin to meet the demand and needs of its million users. The 21M btc surely cannot cover up if the whole world will use it.

susila_bai

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Quote from: Hazir on October 10, 2016, 10:27:57 AM

Quote from: Spoetnik on October 08, 2016, 02:58:47 AM

And i have had many times where i wanted to send small amounts but couldn't afford it..

I don't want to suggest that but we have some services which allow us to send fee-less tranaction alredy - Xapo for example.

We are far from reaching point where bitcoin could be even remotely considered as substitute to FIAT, being global currency is like a dream for Bitcoin.

Plus, it is not like we are stuck forever with current bitcoin code, protocol can be upgraded when needed. The current fee system will be sufficient for many, many years.

I think above this quote , it is clearly given details about how the transaction fees is changing according to the price. and i also accept that if wanted to use small amounts of bitcoin to send then better to use online web wallets like xapo , coinbase which are sending the coins without fees, but keeping high amount of bitcoins on this exchange is not recommended.

Hazir

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Quote from: Spoetnik on October 08, 2016, 02:58:47 AM

And i have had many times where i wanted to send small amounts but couldn't afford it..

I don't want to suggest that but we have some services which allow us to send fee-less tranaction alredy - Xapo for example.

We are far from reaching point where bitcoin could be even remotely considered as substitute to FIAT, being global currency is like a dream for Bitcoin.

Plus, it is not like we are stuck forever with current bitcoin code, protocol can be upgraded when needed. The current fee system will be sufficient for many, many years.

RodeoX

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 04:20:53 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on October 08, 2016, 03:50:58 AM

two things i got to say to this:
1) fees will change with price. and it has already changed a lot of times
2) it has been said before and i say it again if 1 satoshi has a value in fiat then bitcoin can be divided into a smaller amount (0.1, 0.01 satoshi)

RU that thick? Do you ever see BTC hardforking:? Please take a moment to stabs your self in the eyes.

OKAY
you buffoon!

2,100,000,000,000,000 coins available

yet...
I can not send 10 coins because the fee is 10,000 coins.

Get it .. yet?

so side chains fill the gap ... discus

[img] fish picture[ /img]

No, I do not get it.
Herbert2020's answer was correct. In fact the bitcoin system would work if there were only 1 coin. 21 million is an arbitrary number and bitcoin can be divided far beyond a Satoshi. Think of the pool of bitcoins as a pie cut into 21million slices. If more guests want pie then you cut ever smaller pieces.
As far as the Tx cost, well that changes with the price of bitcoin. I think I used to pay 0.1BTC to send money. Now that seems like a lot because the price is no longer $.75/coin. As the price went up the fee denominated in BTC has dropped and I'm paying less than 0.00063BTC now. If each Satoshi were worth $1 then you would likely be paying less than 0.000000001BTC

erikalui

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The supply of bitcoins is limited and it will never even become a global currency is there are millions of coins in supply. There are too many currencies to worry about the future of only bitcoins and since the price of bitcoins is never predictable and satoshi price depends on it, the transaction fee doesn't matter. Currently, 1 satoshi doesn't value even one cent just like $0.000001 USD has no value. If tomorrow the price of bitcoin is valued as high as a six figure amount, then we could see 1 satoshi also being valued else now it's no point to even send anyone such a small amount.

spartak_t

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on October 10, 2016, 08:43:01 AM

your previous comment sounded a lot like: there are poor people and i do not care about them or want them to use bitcoin. they are not my problem.
bitcoin was not made to end world poverty, but saying you are at the longer end of the stick so you do not care is part of the problem.

No, my previous comment sounded like: Bitcoin will never be used by the world's entire population so why bothering doing such calculations?

I live in a country, which many people doesn't even know where it is located and moreover - a big part of the (hypocrite) world consider it as a 3rd world country.

I would never ever mock with poverty.

Senor.Bla

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 10, 2016, 07:52:06 AM

Quote from: Senor.Bla on October 10, 2016, 07:23:54 AM

Quote from: spartak_t on October 10, 2016, 07:08:03 AM

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a $ bill looks like (and EURO/GBP/CNY/whatever for that matter), so I won't bother with such calculations.

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a bread/clean water/education/housing looks like, so I won't bother with such calculations.

You don't say?

Quote from: Senor.Bla on October 10, 2016, 07:23:54 AM

check your privilege! bitcoin might not be able to be used by all, but you are way off here.

I did that long time ago. Bitcoin will never be used by all. My point was that such comparisons are unnecessary. Currently Bitcoin needs two things:

1. To survive.
2. To be better adopted.

your previous comment sounded a lot like: there are pore people and i do not care about them or want them to use bitcoin. they are not my problem.
bitcoin was not made to end world poverty, but saying you are at the longer end of the stick so you do not care is part of the problem.

spartak_t

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on October 10, 2016, 07:23:54 AM

Quote from: spartak_t on October 10, 2016, 07:08:03 AM

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a $ bill looks like (and EURO/GBP/CNY/whatever for that matter), so I won't bother with such calculations.

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a bread/clean water/education/housing looks like, so I won't bother with such calculations.

You don't say?

Quote from: Senor.Bla on October 10, 2016, 07:23:54 AM

check your privilege! bitcoin might not be able to be used by all, but you are way off here.

I did that long time ago. Bitcoin will never be used by all. My point was that such comparisons are unnecessary. Currently Bitcoin needs two things:

1. To survive.
2. To be better adopted.

ice098

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on October 10, 2016, 07:23:54 AM

Quote from: spartak_t on October 10, 2016, 07:08:03 AM

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a $ bill looks like (and EURO/GBP/CNY/whatever for that matter), so I won't bother with such calculations.

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a bread/clean water/education/housing looks like, so I won't bother with such calculations.
check your privilege! bitcoin might not be able to be used by all, but you are way off here.

You are right! Lot of 3rd world country out there and doesnt know what is technology! Bitcoin might not able to be used by every one ! We should accept it! But the thing is if becomes famous then we are lucky! It is okay that it is not used by every one but as long as a high price! Then its good.

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