BTC has too few coins to function as a global currency. - page 4.

spartak_t

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Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 11:06:14 AM

Quote from: spartak_t on October 09, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AM

the fee today is due to only 2million users.

I don't think that this is true. The number of unique BTC addresses currently is about 500k, so I'd say that not more than ~100-150k people are actually using Bitcoin.

alot of people have funds in third parties like exchanges which hold hundreds of thousands of peoples funds in only a couple addresses.(cold wallet reserves)
EG just a couple addresses can represent million users funds combined.

oh and by the way there are 250,000 MERCHANTS. before you even start counting users.

Maybe you're right, but the number of the BTC daily transactions never exceeded 300k. I am sure that millions of people know about Bitcoin, but I'm not sure if millions are using it.

franky1

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 09, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AM

the fee today is due to only 2million users.

I don't think that this is true. The number of unique BTC addresses currently is about 500k, so I'd say that not more than ~100-150k people are actually using Bitcoin.

alot of people have funds in third parties like exchanges which hold hundreds of thousands of peoples funds in only a couple addresses.(cold wallet reserves)
EG just a couple addresses can represent million users funds combined.

oh and by the way there are 250,000 MERCHANTS. before you even start counting users.

spartak_t

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Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on October 09, 2016, 10:55:59 AM

Quote from: spartak_t on October 09, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AM

the fee today is due to only 2million users.

I don't think that this is true. The number of unique BTC addresses currently is about 500k, so I'd say that not more than ~100-150k people are actually using Bitcoin.

Actually where we can see this data like total number of unique bitcoin address generated till now? Any source or tool? this could be very helpful

There you go: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-unique-addresses

~Bitcoin~

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 09, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AM

the fee today is due to only 2million users.

I don't think that this is true. The number of unique BTC addresses currently is about 500k, so I'd say that not more than ~100-150k people are actually using Bitcoin.

Actually where we can see this data like total number of unique bitcoin address generated till now? Any source or tool? this could be very helpful

spartak_t

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Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AM

the fee today is due to only 2million users.

I don't think that this is true. The number of unique BTC addresses currently is about 500k, so I'd say that not more than ~100-150k people are actually using Bitcoin.

amacar2

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21 million may not be enough if we consider price remain same till that time however it is for sure bitcoin price should be really high due to high marketcap to become global currency so that even 1 satoshi fee could be enough for miners to accept transaction. I don't think fee will be bigger issue in those days also.

franky1

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OP you need to realise

the fee today is due to only 2million users. and the limited capacity of such.
but if we had 7billion users and the capacity was widened to allow it, then the fee would be lower.

EG lets imagine the fee was ~ 1cent and measured as sat
this would mean a 'bit' (100sat is $1)
2,100,000,000,000,000 sats
2,100,000,000,000,000 cents
21,000,000,000,000 dollars

yep 21 trillion dollars
where in the decades to achieve the utopian goal of one world currency (not gonna happen so relax)
peoples mindsets and buying decisions change.

EG $1 today buys 0.66% of a loaf of bread.

in future. 1bit = 10 loaves of bread. people dont rush to spend funds every day repeatedly. worrying when the next meal will come from..
instead they spend less often and stock up on weeks/months of groceries. knowing they still have extra funds to live happy worry free lives

davis196

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

This debate has been around for ages. I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

21M bitcoins are enough for a global currency,i guess.

Bitcoin will never be the ONLY global currency.It will be just one of the global currencies.

Don`t rely on Quora answers.I ask questions there and only the spammers answer. Grin

arcanaaerobics

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If 1 satoshi = 1 dollar so 1 bitcoin = 100.000.000 dollars
Multiply for 21.000.000 bitcoins = 2.100.000.000.000.000 dollars

Yes, it can raise a lot and stay with a low fee(1sat-1usd) Wink

yayayo

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

You can expect that transaction fees will adjust to the buying power of Bitcoin, because the activity of miners who receive the transaction fees depends on electricity prices. So if the buying power of Bitcoin increases, miners can buy a higher amount of electricity with their mining proceeds. In turn this means that miners will be profitable, even if transaction fees drop. Therefore they will be willing to include transaction that have a lower BTC fee. (For simplicity I left out block rewards here and assumed a more mature Bitcoin, when fees will be the primary income for miners.)

At the time when even a single Satoshi has meaningful buying power, you can expect an upgrade of the Bitcoin code that allows higher accuracy to express fractions of a Bitcoin.

ya.ya.yo!

Daisy14

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I suppose bitcoin can still scale the hurdle of transaction fees if something can be done about the size of its blockchain.

spartak_t

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on October 08, 2016, 08:42:26 AM

and yes i have seen bitcoin hard fork at least once in the past and it has had so many changes and so many forks if that is the only thing you could come up with.

Any sources to support that claim?

EDIT: OP, if Bitcoin reaches $5k or $10k its market cap will be equal to a small country's GDP. I think that's enough to call it success.

BitcoinHodler

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HODLing is an art, not just a word...

so what is your suggestion after all these?

use another coin with a massive number of coins?
go to coinmarketcap and sort their list by available supply and see how many of those coins are successful?
HINT: prices barely reach 0.00001000BTC

I think bitcoin would have died if the total number were higher than this.

criptix

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When was the last time you went to buy some ice cream to eat with a bar of gold?

Herbert2020

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 04:20:53 AM

RU that thick? Do you ever see BTC hardforking:? Please take a moment to stabs your self in the eyes.
OKAY
you buffoon!

i don't really understand why you are insulting me, if you don't agree with my comment or if i am wrong you can correct me like a normal human being.

and yes i have seen bitcoin hard fork at least once in the past and it has had so many changes and so many forks if that is the only thing you could come up with.

Quote

2,100,000,000,000,000 coins available
yet...
I can not send 10 coins because the fee is 10,000 coins.

make up your mind, is your main topic about right now or the future?
- yes right now you can not send 10 coins (10 satoshi) because of the current price and lots of other things and bitcoin is not a global currency right now.
it will be considered spam and in order to prevent spam there is a Dust threshold preventing it and this threshold has changed before and it can change again in the future.

- your topic (function as a global currency) is a thing of the future and if you read my previous comment you can see why i said 10 coins (10 satoshi) can be possible.
become globally adopted > more demand > more $$$ coming in > higher price > 10 satoshi will worth $1 for example and fee is not going to remain 10,000

European Central Bank

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people making points like this kinda goes to show how unworldly satoshi was when it comes to human psychology. if you're a computing genius then of course you're comfortable with strings of zeroes.

everyone else wants the zeroes moved to the back and wants to use whole units, not fractions. if bitcoin had been denominated in mbtc, bits, whatever from the offing I think it would be further along.

sure, there've been attempts to use those but nothing's stuck and it would've made far more sense to do it from the beginning. the longer whole units are used then the more entrenched it is.

this point of view often seems to get lots of objections but the people making it are already down the rabbit hole. it's the people who aren't who count and most of them ain't too switched on.

r0ach

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Quote from: Spoetnik on October 08, 2016, 02:58:47 AM

Good point !

And i have had many times where i wanted to send small amounts but couldn't afford it..

Not everyone is rich spoiled greedy shitheads. Roll Eyes

How about telling people that if they want to spend a quarter at a store it will cost them $5 ?
Like duh.. you NEED to be able to spend small amounts.. it's life.

And divisible is a poor excuse.
The dollar in Canada is divisible.. but then it's NOT a dollar anymore but "change"
Hell we even dropped the 1 cent penny way back.. we don't use them, shit is rounded off at store registers.
We were told it was starting to cost 1.6 cents to make a penny so Canada dropped it.

Bitcoin needs to be usable across the board and not just advantageous to guys looking for a cheap way to move a small fortune.

To me viewing Bitcoin as a Currency and seeing it at $600 that alone tells me there is not enough BTC coins.

This all makes me wonder if an Altcoin could fix these glaring issues.. with out centralization.

Reloadable bitpay bitcoin debit card is the best $9 I've spent. And you can just ignore kiklo posts because everyone with two brain cells knows Bitcoin is almost infinitely granular. All that matters is what percentage of the chain you own, not how you express those units.

kiklo

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Quote from: xuan87 on October 08, 2016, 07:15:13 AM

maybe in the future, if bitcoin already become global currency and the price already very high, then they can make development to fix this things, maybe they can set the transaction below 10 satoshi, the fee is 1 satoshi or maybe another regulations, but for now we dont need to think about this things because the price is still low

Bitcoin requires a complete redesign to be a global currency, they can't even agree on block size. Tongue

Odds are they will hold their title as top coin for another year or two and then one of the Alts will take over as BTC begins its decline.
Many Alts were designed with Billions of coins, so they can be global and hold on to a micro-payment industry.
It may even be a tag team , LTC & Doge,
LTC handling the bigger values and Doge owning the micro-payment side, since the same miners can run both networks.
Funny that Together they may topple BTC. Cheesy

xuan87

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maybe in the future, if bitcoin already become global currency and the price already very high, then they can make development to fix this things, maybe they can set the transaction below 10 satoshi, the fee is 1 satoshi or maybe another regulations, but for now we dont need to think about this things because the price is still low

BitcoinNational

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Quote from: TraderETH on October 08, 2016, 04:30:35 AM

But only bitcoins that has big amount of volume transaction and can be survive until right now.

against FIAT.
that's BTCs job.

but sending small units of value.
like the cost of a CPU hZ

it sucks at that

Topic: BTC has too few coins to function as a global currency. - page 4. (Read 3173 times)