BTC has too few coins to function as a global currency. - page 3.

Senor.Bla

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 10, 2016, 07:08:03 AM

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a $ bill looks like (and EURO/GBP/CNY/whatever for that matter), so I won't bother with such calculations.

There are literally millions of people who does not know how a bread/clean water/education/housing looks like, so I won't bother with such calculations.
check your privilege! bitcoin might not be able to be used by all, but you are way off here.

spartak_t

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There are literally millions of people who does not know how a $ bill looks like (and EURO/GBP/CNY/whatever for that matter), so I won't bother with such calculations.

Senor.Bla

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Quote from: Carlsen on October 10, 2016, 03:36:49 AM

When I calculate correctly every person on this world could own 260000 staoshis in average, if all bitcoins were mined and the world population is about 8 billion people.
That does not sounds much at first, but of course a satoshi would be worth much more than today, lets say one dollar.
When a transaction has fees of 10000 satoshis, who would pay that?
Nobody I guess. That's why I say there are way too less satoshis to make bitcoin function as a global currency.

the fees would go down in such a case. maybe even to 1 sat. but there are other problems.
if you assume 1 sat = $1 then we have a problem when buying products cheaper then $1. so lets say 1 sat = $0.01 = 1 cent. this would mean every person would have the equivalent of $2600. and obviously this is not enough, but this will not happen anyway.

Pursuer

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Quote from: Carlsen on October 10, 2016, 03:36:49 AM

When I calculate correctly every person on this world could own 260000 staoshis in average, if all bitcoins were mined and the world population is about 8 billion people.
That does not sounds much at first, but of course a satoshi would be worth much more than today, lets say one dollar.
When a transaction has fees of 10000 satoshis, who would pay that?
Nobody I guess. That's why I say there are way too less satoshis to make bitcoin function as a global currency.

not everybody in the world is supposed to have bitcoin!
and this will never happen either. you have to always think based on some reality. and for the realistic number of people who will ever use bitcoin, I say it is more than enough coins.

and if needs be, this number can be increased if the lack of enough coins were felt.

Carlsen

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When I calculate correctly every person on this world could own 260000 staoshis in average, if all bitcoins were mined and the world population is about 8 billion people.
That does not sounds much at first, but of course a satoshi would be worth much more than today, lets say one dollar.
When a transaction has fees of 10000 satoshis, who would pay that?
Nobody I guess. That's why I say there are way too less satoshis to make bitcoin function as a global currency.

asriloni

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 08, 2016, 09:39:16 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on October 08, 2016, 08:42:26 AM

and yes i have seen bitcoin hard fork at least once in the past and it has had so many changes and so many forks if that is the only thing you could come up with.

EDIT: OP, if Bitcoin reaches $5k or $10k its market cap will be equal to a small country's GDP. I think that's enough to call it success.

Totally the equaling btc into the small country's GDP is already enough for call bitcoin is a success? I don't think if that is can be an important measure the success bitcoin or not. Huh

dranster

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

This debate has been around for ages. I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

If thats your lame reason, it only takes a single HF to increase the amount of coins

Herbert2020

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 08, 2016, 09:39:16 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on October 08, 2016, 08:42:26 AM

and yes i have seen bitcoin hard fork at least once in the past and it has had so many changes and so many forks if that is the only thing you could come up with.

Any sources to support that claim?
..

there is always a debate in bitcoin about everything, even about what we should call hard fork or soft fork. what i had in mind was bip50

also a good read: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/history-of-hardforks-and-rollbacks-in-bitcoin-702755
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-a-hard-fork-538491

countryfree

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There could be only one BTC and it would be enough. The average human would only get a tiny fraction of it, but it would be fine. Just like Earth. There's only one Earth, with the average guy only owning a few square meters.

OROBTC

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...

There's plenty of Bitcoin (and will be for many, many years). Just like there is plenty of gold. They both share that and other traits they.

When people say "There is not enough gold to back the US dollar."

or

"There's not enough Bitcoin to function as a major currency."

they do not understand that there is always enough gold and BTC, at the right price.

MingLee

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

This debate has been around for ages. I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

With enough divisibility there would be no issue with "how much should I send as a fee" and it would be a non-argument. Assuming 1 Bitcoin is divisible to 12 places, you would be able to make every Bitcoin worth ~$100m and still have 1 satoshi be $0.01. iirc. Some numbers like that. Also effectively replaces the current value of the monetary system.

As for resources to use to learn more about this, I have no idea. I don't know how many exist.

a7mos

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bitcoin cant be a global currency right now because of the small block size that is already full now with the current few users. it is now about the coins number.

FLoving

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For that I have a simple answer that is with the passing of time the fees of miners are reducing so I think the fees for transaction will also be reduced, If it is not happening then it would have to happen. and the other point is that if the value will increase much higher at the time when everyone will adopt bitcoin then the miners will be paid according to their work that will be lesser for a satoshi.

bitbunnny

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I don't think that limited number of coins is anw obstscle for Bitcoin to be a global currency. People all around the world are now using Bitcoin, doesn't that make it global currency already? I know that Bitcoin has some limitations to become fuly equal to fiat currencies but I think that we don't have to worry that it isn't global.

Senor.Bla

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Quote from: Kprawn on October 09, 2016, 02:12:48 PM

Quote from: davis196 on October 09, 2016, 09:54:50 AM

Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

This debate has been around for ages. I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

21M bitcoins are enough for a global currency,i guess.

Bitcoin will never be the ONLY global currency.It will be just one of the global currencies.

Don`t rely on Quora answers.I ask questions there and only the spammers answer. Grin

The point is, there will never be 21M bitcoins for people to use in every day trade. The +/- 1 000 000 bitcoin are already out of circulation.

Add to this the huge amount of coins that are currently hoarded in cold storage to keep them secure, and you are left with very little

coins in circulation. Further add to that, the fact that MANY of the coins still need to be mined. Wink

one million more or less will not change the outcome of this debate. either it is enough or not. if you think everybody will use it and only it, then bitcoin in its current form will not do. even with 210 million. but i do not think that everybody worldwide will only use bitcoin and surly not overnight. so if we were getting close to this point we would find a solution or switch to another coin.

bitdumper

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One world One currency, Bitcoin.

i do not think so i think bitcoin has a perfect unit fraction which is 21million btc and every btc can be devided upto 0.00000001btc so its a huge huge container to keep everyone connected as not everyone will fall under btc

Kprawn

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Quote from: davis196 on October 09, 2016, 09:54:50 AM

Quote from: BitcoinNational on October 08, 2016, 12:24:50 AM

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ? Wink

)

This debate has been around for ages. I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

21M bitcoins are enough for a global currency,i guess.

Bitcoin will never be the ONLY global currency.It will be just one of the global currencies.

Don`t rely on Quora answers.I ask questions there and only the spammers answer. Grin

The point is, there will never be 21M bitcoins for people to use in every day trade. The +/- 1 000 000 bitcoin are already out of circulation.

Add to this the huge amount of coins that are currently hoarded in cold storage to keep them secure, and you are left with very little

coins in circulation. Further add to that, the fact that MANY of the coins still need to be mined. Wink

outatime1

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Another limitation is that there are many bitcoins that have been lost and can't be recovered. So there will never be 21 million bitcoin because of the lost ones and there will continue to be more that are lost. I think there will be other altcoins that will need to be used along with bitcoin because bitcoin will gradually become more rare and possible very expensive.

Senor.Bla

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Quote from: spartak_t on October 09, 2016, 11:11:06 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 11:06:14 AM

Quote from: spartak_t on October 09, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AM

the fee today is due to only 2million users.

I don't think that this is true. The number of unique BTC addresses currently is about 500k, so I'd say that not more than ~100-150k people are actually using Bitcoin.

alot of people have funds in third parties like exchanges which hold hundreds of thousands of peoples funds in only a couple addresses.(cold wallet reserves)
EG just a couple addresses can represent million users funds combined.

oh and by the way there are 250,000 MERCHANTS. before you even start counting users.

Maybe you're right, but the number of the BTC daily transactions never exceeded 300k. I am sure that millions of people know about Bitcoin, but I'm not sure if millions are using it.

it is not that relevant if 200,000 or 2 million or even 20 million people use it. the point was that if bitcoins user base grows significantly we can expect a price increase and we will be able to lower the fee.

Digitalbitcoin

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I think bitcoin is prime currency in all altcoins. In future most of transactions will be done in alternative coins so capping of bitcoin with 22 billion bitcoin will be not an issue.

According current consideration price of bitcoin will climb so much higher in coming years.

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