Topic: [BTC-TC] Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS) - page 27. (Read 198958 times)

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   14.60016674
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    603.37603066
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    601.84462707
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00369108
Days Dividend Post Div   393.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    601.84462707
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00369108

Face value on CIPHERMINE.B1 is .01 BTC each - they can be redeemed for that with 3 months' notice (and you sacrifice all dividends for those 3 months).  After 1 year they can be redeemed at face without any notice needing to be given.

Kate's on her honeymoon - looks like she forgot to pay last week's dividend before going (which is bad form - but not a cause to fear default).

Problem at my end is that at a certain point I have to mark them down on the books (thus stopping SELLING dividends) to avoid running out of cash to pay MINING dividends.  That's because where it reaches a point where I MUST sell them I either have to sell them at a massive discount or mark them down so as to remove the immediate need to sell them.  That may sound silly - after all, surely their value doesn't change?  But in fact their value DOES change - if I need to sell them right now then their value is only what I can get for them right now : whilst if I can delay selling them for a few months then I can value them at what they'll sell for then (IF I'm sure I can get it then).

It's a shame as they were doing nicely for us up until BTC-TC going down - we were slowly selling them off at a profit to what we paid for them AND getting dividends.  And we were selling at the rate we needed to (to keep the percentage in target range) without any difficulty.

So what is the 'face' on CIPHERMINE?  Although Kate missed the last dividend with her custom utility, I would be willing to trade CIPHERMINE for the next SELLING dividend or a month of MINING/PURCHASE dividends depending.

The options to reduce the CIPHERMINE bonds are very limited:

1.  I could give 3 months notice to sell some - I discounted this idea simply because it wouldn't help anything much.  Any crunch hits well before then.
2.  Sell privately.  I prefer this route - but, if at all possible, want to wait for it to be relisted first so we get a much better price.

I also have to be very careful not to run into a situation where we run out of cash to pay MINING dividends.  Potentially that could mean suspending SELLING dividends until the CIPHERMINE become liquid (at which stage there'd immediately be a catch-up dividend).  MINING have never received benefits for the various dividends etc we've received from investment and so shouldnt suffer any loss from investment.  My personal holdings remain somewhere around 15k SELLING and a handful (under 100) MINING - so taking that route would obviously not be something I'd be doing for my personal benefit.

Next SELLING dividend will go out same as usual - after that I'll have to reconsider the situation depending on how various things develop (in particular the plans for the CIPHERMINE bond to relist - I'm confident it will but not sure exactly when).

I haven't updated on relisting recently - we're still very likely to be relisted somewhere before very long (I can't say where - not least because there's still 3 live possibilities that I haven't ruled out or reached agreement with).  The CIPHERMINE.B1 situation makes relisting less of a priority than it otherwise would have been - as until those are liquid we can't realistically expect to sell more PURCHASE (as I can't value the bonds below face value when selling) and everyone who wanted cash urgently already should have sold.

On a further small point, whenever next SELLING dividend gos out I intend right afterwards to pay a lump dividend for the rest of the month's MINING dividends - so no MINING investors get stuck with tiny dividends received on the last day or two of BTC-TC being open.  Obviously I'll only do that to the extent that I can do it whilst being sure I'm not paying for a period after which difficulty would have changed (i.e. OVER-paying in advance) - if I do happen to overpay because of that then I'd personally refund the extra into capital.

The fraction of the funds assets that consists of Ciphermine bonds is increasing at a considerable rate. Currently they make up over 40% of the NAV, but with the next SELLING dividend likely to be rather large, this fraction will go up considerably, over 50%.

Is there a plan to reduce the number of Ciphermine bonds held to ensure enough liquid BTC remains available? Or in the worst case, a contingency plan for when the fund is out of BTC to pay dividends and Ciphermine has not yet relisted on an exchange or has otherwise become liquid enough to sell without major losses?

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   16.1312438
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    604.90710772
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    603.37570413
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00370047
Days Dividend Post Div   394.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    603.37570413
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00370047

Looking forwards to a move. I wanna re-invest my dividends. I'm too much of a girl's blouse to try to day-trade BTC and I don't want to attract CGT doing so.

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   17.66232086
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    606.43818478
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    604.90678119
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00370986
Days Dividend Post Div   395.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    604.90678119
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00370986

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   19.19339792
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    607.96926184
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    606.43785825
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00371925
Days Dividend Post Div   396.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    606.43785825
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00371925

Still not finalised where we move to - but it definitely won't be Bitfunder (our US investors won't be able to use, I don't want to force everyone else to verify ID - and I don't think Bitfunder is even taking new securities right now anyway).

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   20.72447498
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    609.50033890
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    607.96893531
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00372864
Days Dividend Post Div   397.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    607.96893531
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00372864

sorry for asking . maybe I miss the news.

I still have 100 shares. what is my shares condition? Will it be moved to bitfunder.com or ......?

thank you

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   22.25555204
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    611.03141596
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    609.50001237
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00373803
Days Dividend Post Div   398.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    609.50001237
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00373803

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   23.7866291
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    612.56249302
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    611.03108943
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00374742
Days Dividend Post Div   399.00
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    611.03108943
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00374742

Nope, CEX.io "GHS" units are just another PMB, like TAT.VIRTUALMINE, BFMINES, etc... The only party able to short them is the issuer. I don't see why they're suddenly the subject of so much interest as the concept of trading mining contracts isn't new in any way. Perhaps it's psychological and the fact that you're trading in GHash/s units that pay out everytime the BitFury pool finds a block makes these things "feel" more "real" than other PMBs that simply pay out daily or weekly according to a fixed payout-formula.

An advantage of CEX.io is that you're only dealing with a single counterparty, since the asset issuer also operates the exchange, unlike other PMBs that trade on third-party exchanges (and we've seen recently that continued regular operation of these exchanges is not set in stone). On the other hand, there is very little information about who actually operates CEX.io, so while you're only exposed to a single counterparty, it is a counterparty of unknown reliability.

Does the hash rate in cex.io exclude the electricity and downtime as DMS.MINING does? My impression is that they are providing cloud mining, not a virtual mining, but I could be wrong. Moreover, cex.io does not have 365 days dividend privilege at closing. Therefore, I guess DMS.MINING should be priced a little bit more than cex.io price.

Does cex.io allow shorting?

cex.io trades at 0.14 per GH/s, which would be equivalent of a MINING price of 0.0007 BTC. That would make SELLING worth 0.00305680 BTC.

Personally, I think that a price of 0.14 BTC per GH/s is too high, especially after the latest 40% difficulty rise. My high end of the range is only 0.13.

Given that the DMS assets haven't been traded since early in the last difficulty, and we have just seen a SELLING dividend paid, it is interesting to speculate where the market would price them at the moment.

As I'm waiting to see a relisting of DMS before I consider other investments, I'm sitting on more BTC than I'm used to seeing in my wallet at the moment.

Have scheduled all today's dividends now.  Here's the report :

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   260.1236189
CIPHERMINE Bonds    260.56000000
BTC Balance (Wallet)    328.21586392
TOTAL ASSETS    848.89948278
   
Outstanding MINING   152575
Outstanding SELLING   152575
Outstanding PURCHASE   10479
Effective Units   163054
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   267,731,250
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00000939
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00046960
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00093920
365 days (Buyback)    0.00342808
405 days (IPO)    0.00380376
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00375680
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00385072
   
NAV Post MINING Div    847.36807919
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00519686
Days Dividend Post Div   553.33
SELLING Dividend    0.00144005
NAV Post SELLING Div    612.56143452
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00375680

The transaction fee on moving BTC from wallet to BTC-TC managed to knock 1 satoshi off the SELLING dividend (it actually is less than that - but gets rounded to a 1 satoshi reduction).

I'm about to go out but should be back shortly before the dividends get paid - so if anyone notices any mistake in the math it's not too late to correct it (very much doubt there's any error though).

You forgot transfer fees for sending dividends.