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Topic: BTCjam - Any Thoughts or Experiances - page 5. (Read 57514 times)

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
March 10, 2016, 02:44:41 PM
An A+ rated user has defaulted on his loan.

This is the beginning of the end for BTCJam.

Link: https://btcjam.com/listings/51749-2nd-loan-for-s7-miners

Scroll to the comments at the bottom half of the page.

Edit: While he has defaulted on his loan, he has seek more refinance loans, https://btcjam.com/listings/54943

I don't know how BTCJam works now. This guy defaulted on his loans and his rating plummeted from A+ to F. Now his rating is back to A+ again...while he is still defaulting on his loan.
member
Activity: 85
Merit: 10
March 02, 2016, 09:48:51 AM
I've been investing for over a year and have been able to regain my entire principal from my investments. I am currently investing only with reinvested interests.

My general approach is to avoid borrowers that attempt to borrow more than they have been able to pay back in previous loans. I do make exceptions for small loans (< 2 BTC) with high return potential where I typically invest close-to-dust amounts.

Overall I'm happy with my BTCJam experience. The only aspect I'm sad about is that the number of available listings seems to have dropped significantly over the last 12 months. I wonder if management can maybe do more to advertise their service. As of now, good loans get gobbled up in a matter of hours as there is a surplus of lenders relative to borrowers.

Happy Investing!
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
March 01, 2016, 03:19:26 AM
I've been very carefull to: only invest in A and A+ loans, only when i liked the plan of the borrower, only invest if the ammount they were loaning was equal to or smaller than the sum of the ammount loaned in the past.

However, lately more and more A+ borrowers seem to default on their loans, i calculated that even with all my precautions i'm going to end at a loss Sad
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
March 01, 2016, 03:13:11 AM
TBH, btcjam isn't the best way to invest your BTC at the moment. BTCJam accounts can and is being sold on open markets, which means a person's credit ratings might be false. I wouldn't recommend anyone use this site.

I was about to comment about this.

Just like how we see on the forum on accounts being bought with btctalk accounts - it should be known that any form of accounts can lead to a potential scam.

I guess it just depends of the luck of the draw on investing for most, but I rather not take a chance.

This is very true. Some of us would never sell our accounts but there are many that would, just for a little bit of money.

That said, off a small amount I put on the site a couple months ago, I'm at:

CoindeskUSD:
8.69%
Bitcoin:
13.95%

I wonder how long this will last though. I've been very careful with what I fund. But based on horror stories, I get even more wary of even trusting those that seem like they can be trusted.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
February 29, 2016, 08:24:38 PM
TBH, btcjam isn't the best way to invest your BTC at the moment. BTCJam accounts can and is being sold on open markets, which means a person's credit ratings might be false. I wouldn't recommend anyone use this site.

I was about to comment about this.

Just like how we see on the forum on accounts being bought with btctalk accounts - it should be known that any form of accounts can lead to a potential scam.

I guess it just depends of the luck of the draw on investing for most, but I rather not take a chance.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
February 29, 2016, 06:48:32 PM
TBH, btcjam isn't the best way to invest your BTC at the moment. BTCJam accounts can and is being sold on open markets, which means a person's credit ratings might be false. I wouldn't recommend anyone use this site.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1013
February 29, 2016, 06:46:03 PM
Why does BTCJam Debt Collections have an A+ credit rating after verifying nothing but their identity? Why does the Phwner have an A- credit rating, lower than BTCJam Debt Collections, after verifying everything minus their credit card in addition to paying off their loans and establishing a credit history with no late payments, have a credit rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections? Why is this rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections?

Why does User #639815422 have a D+ rating after verifying 4 more items than BTCJam Debt Collections while having an equivalent credit history?

Based on my own experience, the credit rating goes higher to the person from a country like USA or some other country in the europe zone if they verify their bank account , especially credit card however if you are from other country the rating will always be lower. Apart from that, if you have an open loan, your rating will be lowered from your actual rating like what they did to phwner

It seems not a good idea to provide more value to one of the country if so it would be better to block the IP and only allow users from certain countries to join  Sad  . but I had to wonder if maybe one of the users / borrower of BTCjam ? I mean borrower are people who come from BTCjam may BTCjam owners or their employees using false ID and can not detect its existence so in case of failure of loan repayment investor could not do anything. What do you think ?

There is almost no way that you could trick them by faking your identity. You could fake your IP to make it looks like you are coming from the europe however you will need an ID , driving license and everything else that comes from europe as well and apart from that it is easy to diferentiate and detect a fake ID that was falsified by using photoshop and other tools
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
February 28, 2016, 07:26:55 PM
Well its a nice move to only lend to fully verified people and keep up the risk minimum as possible.Talkimg about the unverified accounts there is still some rism but still guys favour to invest in their listing as they give up a high interest rate.Some comes out paying their lenders while some not.So the main game is setting up of an investment plan to reap up high profit at low risk by investing in multiple listings and making a smart investment move which is my way of investing. Cheesy
Even if you diversify, a default would cost you the profits of 10 other investments so it's still very risky IMO. (And 10% default is probably very conservative)

If you only deal with the top-rated people, the risk should be lower. Still not nearly what you'd get elsewhere but still isn't as abysmal as you insinuate.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1003
February 28, 2016, 06:32:23 PM
Why does BTCJam Debt Collections have an A+ credit rating after verifying nothing but their identity? Why does the Phwner have an A- credit rating, lower than BTCJam Debt Collections, after verifying everything minus their credit card in addition to paying off their loans and establishing a credit history with no late payments, have a credit rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections? Why is this rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections?

Why does User #639815422 have a D+ rating after verifying 4 more items than BTCJam Debt Collections while having an equivalent credit history?

Based on my own experience, the credit rating goes higher to the person from a country like USA or some other country in the europe zone if they verify their bank account , especially credit card however if you are from other country the rating will always be lower. Apart from that, if you have an open loan, your rating will be lowered from your actual rating like what they did to phwner

It seems not a good idea to provide more value to one of the country if so it would be better to block the IP and only allow users from certain countries to join  Sad  . but I had to wonder if maybe one of the users / borrower of BTCjam ? I mean borrower are people who come from BTCjam may BTCjam owners or their employees using false ID and can not detect its existence so in case of failure of loan repayment investor could not do anything. What do you think ?
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 503
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
February 28, 2016, 02:35:35 PM
Well its a nice move to only lend to fully verified people and keep up the risk minimum as possible.Talkimg about the unverified accounts there is still some rism but still guys favour to invest in their listing as they give up a high interest rate.Some comes out paying their lenders while some not.So the main game is setting up of an investment plan to reap up high profit at low risk by investing in multiple listings and making a smart investment move which is my way of investing. Cheesy
Even if you diversify, a default would cost you the profits of 10 other investments so it's still very risky IMO. (And 10% default is probably very conservative)
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1009
Next-Gen Trade Racing Metaverse
February 27, 2016, 12:06:32 PM
So the main game is setting up of an investment plan to reap up high profit at low risk by investing in multiple listings and making a smart investment move which is my way of investing. Cheesy

Which would probably end up in a percentage of defaults > fully payed loans, and losses.

The idea is pretty simple but implementing it is a nightmare. Even those with A+ or B+ credit rating defaults in this environment where they've got nothing to lose except their identities, which I believe some are even fake.
legendary
Activity: 3094
Merit: 1472
February 25, 2016, 02:37:43 PM
Why does BTCJam Debt Collections have an A+ credit rating after verifying nothing but their identity? Why does the Phwner have an A- credit rating, lower than BTCJam Debt Collections, after verifying everything minus their credit card in addition to paying off their loans and establishing a credit history with no late payments, have a credit rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections? Why is this rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections?

Why does User #639815422 have a D+ rating after verifying 4 more items than BTCJam Debt Collections while having an equivalent credit history?

Based on my own experience, the credit rating goes higher to the person from a country like USA or some other country in the europe zone if they verify their bank account , especially credit card however if you are from other country the rating will always be lower. Apart from that, if you have an open loan, your rating will be lowered from your actual rating like what they did to phwner
Meh...
In case of default, you may be where you want they don't do anything for you. So I don't really see why bother...
I used to lend some monoey with this platform, but I only lent to identity confirmed people.
When they defaulted they didn't do shit, even if they knew exactly who they were...  Angry

Well its a nice move to only lend to fully verified people and keep up the risk minimum as possible.Talkimg about the unverified accounts there is still some rism but still guys favour to invest in their listing as they give up a high interest rate.Some comes out paying their lenders while some not.So the main game is setting up of an investment plan to reap up high profit at low risk by investing in multiple listings and making a smart investment move which is my way of investing. Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 503
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
February 25, 2016, 11:07:55 AM
Why does BTCJam Debt Collections have an A+ credit rating after verifying nothing but their identity? Why does the Phwner have an A- credit rating, lower than BTCJam Debt Collections, after verifying everything minus their credit card in addition to paying off their loans and establishing a credit history with no late payments, have a credit rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections? Why is this rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections?

Why does User #639815422 have a D+ rating after verifying 4 more items than BTCJam Debt Collections while having an equivalent credit history?

Based on my own experience, the credit rating goes higher to the person from a country like USA or some other country in the europe zone if they verify their bank account , especially credit card however if you are from other country the rating will always be lower. Apart from that, if you have an open loan, your rating will be lowered from your actual rating like what they did to phwner
Meh...
In case of default, you may be where you want they don't do anything for you. So I don't really see why bother...
I used to lend some monoey with this platform, but I only lent to identity confirmed people.
When they defaulted they didn't do shit, even if they knew exactly who they were...  Angry
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1013
February 25, 2016, 10:07:35 AM
Why does BTCJam Debt Collections have an A+ credit rating after verifying nothing but their identity? Why does the Phwner have an A- credit rating, lower than BTCJam Debt Collections, after verifying everything minus their credit card in addition to paying off their loans and establishing a credit history with no late payments, have a credit rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections? Why is this rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections?

Why does User #639815422 have a D+ rating after verifying 4 more items than BTCJam Debt Collections while having an equivalent credit history?

Based on my own experience, the credit rating goes higher to the person from a country like USA or some other country in the europe zone if they verify their bank account , especially credit card however if you are from other country the rating will always be lower. Apart from that, if you have an open loan, your rating will be lowered from your actual rating like what they did to phwner
full member
Activity: 198
Merit: 100
February 25, 2016, 04:11:29 AM
1.


2.


3.




Why does BTCJam Debt Collections have an A+ credit rating after verifying nothing but their identity? Why does the Phwner have an A- credit rating, lower than BTCJam Debt Collections, after verifying everything minus their credit card in addition to paying off their loans and establishing a credit history with no late payments, have a credit rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections? Why is this rating lower than BTCJam Debt Collections?

Why does User #639815422 have a D+ rating after verifying 4 more items than BTCJam Debt Collections while having an equivalent credit history?

How are your ratings NOT arbitrary? What factors not listed on your website are you applying to your credit ratings?
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
February 20, 2016, 06:49:06 AM
Sigh...

See dude, that's the whole point. People fall all over themselves thanking BTCJam for their help, and now it somehow legitimizes their operation. Or that they're doing a better job. It is, certainly, better to get paid something for your investment in a loan. But its not just about protection from scammers, no one thinks about what kind of position Jam (or any other similar platform) is in when they provide these loans.

When a loan gets submitted BTCJam requests much more information from the borrower when they apply for the loan, than an investor, understandably. But then a loan becomes late, people start dumping notes a huge discount, then it becomes overdue, people start dumping notes at an even bigger discount. All the while, Jam, who has already collected their fee when the loan was funded, now has the ability to sift through the documentation provided by the borrower and determine with much more certainty than any investor ever could on that site ever could whether that borrower has the assets or the ability to pay off that loan regardless of whether a judgment was put against that borrower or not. Pursuing litigation is great, but if there are no assets, the lender will still be left with nothing. So now that investors are fucked, Jam can sit back in a position of leverage and cherry pick notes from defaults that they can scoop up at highly discounted values off investors who don't have the information to accurately assess the value of these notes.

Has BTCJam debt collections ever announced beforehand that they would be buying notes on a given loan? If your answer is no, have you ever wondered why? You bet your ass I would price a note much higher to an individual or entity who had a superior ability to assess the value of that note than myself.

So, the investor is left with the option to to pay a lawyer to find out the information that jam already SHOULD have. What was that fee for at Jam then?

BUT NOW THAT YOU ALL KNOW THAT BTCJAM DEBT COLLECTIONS ARE BUYING NOTES FOR DEFAULTED BORROWERS HOW ABOUT YOU START PRICING NOTES AT VALUE MINUS 5% FEE THAT JAM ALREADY COLLECTED WHEN THE LOAN WAS FUNDED. That seems fair right? You are, after all, not selling to another investor, who if they wanted to collect would have to pay someone else to find out the same information that jam already has which is what you would theoretically be paying that fee for, to provide an accurate credit rating.

It really is a great business model that they have.

I can't completely blame Jam. If they did give out all of that info, borrowers would surely balk and there would be another site without such restrictions where they would go and investors chasing returns would then flock to that site.

Nothing will change until people demand better. I like the idea of crowdfunding loans, but this system is broken, severely. As others have said, posting collateral is an option, and it is certainly sound, but no provider of a platform will provide such an option if the competitors don't and the investors don't seem to mind.

I just want to say that this explanation is exactly how I view it. I haven't personally heard of anyone being tracked down/sued/etc. by BTCJam, despite the massive number of scams there. That in itself should speak wonders.

IF you invest there, you have to do it as just that -- an investment. Not a loan. Expect to have x% of them defaulted on. You just have to hope that the ones that don't default earn enough to compensate for those that do (it's akin to diversifying stocks -- you don't care if a couple tank, you care if the batch, as a whole, are positive).
full member
Activity: 198
Merit: 100
February 20, 2016, 06:33:35 AM
Sigh...

See dude, that's the whole point. People fall all over themselves thanking BTCJam for their help, and now it somehow legitimizes their operation. Or that they're doing a better job. It is, certainly, better to get paid something for your investment in a loan. But its not just about protection from scammers, no one thinks about what kind of position Jam (or any other similar platform) is in when they provide these loans.

When a loan gets submitted BTCJam requests much more information from the borrower when they apply for the loan, than an investor, understandably. But then a loan becomes late, people start dumping notes a huge discount, then it becomes overdue, people start dumping notes at an even bigger discount. All the while, Jam, who has already collected their fee when the loan was funded, now has the ability to sift through the documentation provided by the borrower and determine with much more certainty than any investor ever could on that site ever could whether that borrower has the assets or the ability to pay off that loan regardless of whether a judgment was put against that borrower or not. Pursuing litigation is great, but if there are no assets, the lender will still be left with nothing. So now that investors are fucked, Jam can sit back in a position of leverage and cherry pick notes from defaults that they can scoop up at highly discounted values off investors who don't have the information to accurately assess the value of these notes.

Has BTCJam debt collections ever announced beforehand that they would be buying notes on a given loan? If your answer is no, have you ever wondered why? You bet your ass I would price a note much higher to an individual or entity who had a superior ability to assess the value of that note than myself.

So, the investor is left with the option to to pay a lawyer to find out the information that jam already SHOULD have. What was that fee for at Jam then?

BUT NOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT BTCJAM DEBT COLLECTIONS ARE BUYING NOTES FOR DEFAULTED BORROWERS HOW ABOUT YOU START PRICING NOTES AT VALUE MINUS 5% FEE THAT JAM ALREADY COLLECTED WHEN THE LOAN WAS FUNDED. That seems fair right? You are, after all, not selling to another investor, who if they wanted to collect would have to pay someone else to find out the same information that jam already has which is what you would theoretically be paying that fee for, to provide an accurate credit rating.

It really is a great business model that they have.

I can't completely blame Jam. If they did give out all of that info, borrowers would surely balk and there would be another site without such restrictions where they would go and investors chasing returns would then flock to that site.

Nothing will change until people demand better. I like the idea of crowdfunding loans, but this system is broken, severely. As others have said, posting collateral is an option, and it is certainly sound, but no provider of a platform will provide such an option if the competitors don't and the investors don't seem to mind.
hero member
Activity: 519
Merit: 500
February 19, 2016, 10:09:14 AM


Good work guys. A+ borrower here. I see that one of your puppet accounts has about 15+ BTC in this. Really trusted the guy, eh? I'm sure that the utmost diligence was done before approving these loans...

They are buying debt on high profile loans through their account BTCjam Debt Collections and making the collections themselves.

Here are some recent examples:

https://btcjam.com/listings/46587-bitcoin-based-localbitcoins-com-trading

and

https://btcjam.com/listings/45490-stock-trading-capital?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-10_new_comment&utm_content=buttonO

If it comes to that I'm quite sure they'll do the same for these 2 loans from Dwight Ringdahl.

And even if they don't there's this guy, Kevin Palley from Enforce my Arbitration Award that's very active recovering funds from US defaulters.

IMO is getting harder to scam in BTCjam but of course you can't throw your coins without thinking a little bit.


hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
February 18, 2016, 10:26:27 AM
My experiences on BTCjam were very similar to what I have experience on certain ponzi websites back on my newbie days. I just lost my bitcoins with those scammers on BTCjam. From then on I avoided that site and actually all p2p lending websites. I would advise to lend on btcjam at your own risk
legendary
Activity: 2982
Merit: 1506
Pie Baking Contest: https://tinyurl.com/2s3z6dee
February 18, 2016, 05:48:19 AM

That's the big problem with these sites. The site should auto-invest in each loan from trusted members to show their commitment. This way they would have something to lose and would be more concerned about defaults.

There is no way that they are going to put something like this in their system. They are business and they will do everything to make money for themselves not to lose money to any strangers in their site. They can pretend and lie that they increase their system to detect scammers but there will always be a scammer in their site
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