This incident will make NXT stronger.
I think i saw those kind of statements in the vrc thread also...What happened next?
Topic: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt - page 18. (Read 25511 times)
I think i saw those kind of statements in the vrc thread also...What happened next?
Majority voting (democracy) in Parliament or even in popular vote (referendum) is one typical example of centralized solutions. It doesn't matter how many people share the same authority. Power is united in one centralized vote.
So if majority has ability to falsify ledger records, it's the same as the majority having the authority to take the physical gold out of your pocket. This is called tyranny of majority.
And here we have precedent. Only because of a relatively minor theft (less than 5%). It was much more with Vericoin. Who will be next?
So if majority has ability to falsify ledger records, it's the same as the majority having the authority to take the physical gold out of your pocket. This is called tyranny of majority.
And here we have precedent. Only because of a relatively minor theft (less than 5%). It was much more with Vericoin. Who will be next?
I hate the precedent too. Crypto was supposed to be about freedom. Now I have to have the the agreement of the majority about who I transact with.
Should have been just technically and/or practically impossible or very hard to begin with.
Majority voting (democracy) in Parliament or even in popular vote (referendum) is one typical example of centralized solutions. It doesn't matter how many people share the same authority. Power is united in one centralized vote.
So if majority has ability to falsify ledger records, it's the same as the majority having the authority to take the physical gold out of your pocket. This is called tyranny of majority.
And here we have precedent. Only because of a relatively minor theft (less than 5%). It was much more with Vericoin. Who will be next?
So if majority has ability to falsify ledger records, it's the same as the majority having the authority to take the physical gold out of your pocket. This is called tyranny of majority.
And here we have precedent. Only because of a relatively minor theft (less than 5%). It was much more with Vericoin. Who will be next?
I hate the precedent too. Crypto was supposed to be about freedom. Now I have to have the the agreement of the majority about who I transact with.
Should have been just technically and/or practically impossible or very hard to begin with.
One of the selling points of crypto I keep reading about is how crypto will take over credit cards because there's no charge backs. Never done the research but I don't think even VISA or MasterCard ever considered a charge back worth around 1.65 million USD.
Correct me if I'm wrong but reversing a transaction was only a much more doable option because NXT and VRC are POS and not as widely distributed as other coins. Less forgers/miners/stakers with control over the network to convince this transaction shouldn't be counted.
The brilliant thing is that the chargeback is not being executed by a single party, but by the decentralised consensus built by the majority. This is exactly how the blockchain works in the first place, and all the actors in the network rallying against an attacker only reaffirms this principle. This is a feature. Correct me if I'm wrong but reversing a transaction was only a much more doable option because NXT and VRC are POS and not as widely distributed as other coins. Less forgers/miners/stakers with control over the network to convince this transaction shouldn't be counted.
and when i read what you said i had a reoccurring thought i have not seen anyone here address yet.. and that is..
Why NXT ?
Why was it not some other coin
anyone know ? yet ?
Why NXT ?
Why was it not some other coin
anyone know ? yet ?I'm pretty sure only bter can answser that for you fully.
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/forgers-have-been-faced-with-a-choice/msg81752/#msg81752
If I'd have to guess, they were using this unsecure hosting account to run a script that processed NXT withdrawals. (This is the only reason the server needs to know the NXT account password = hot wallet)
They probably made a separate account when implemented NXT and forgot to secure it later like other accounts.
Majority voting (democracy) in Parliament or even in popular vote (referendum) is one typical example of centralized solutions. It doesn't matter how many people share the same authority. Power is united in one centralized vote.
So if majority has ability to falsify ledger records, it's the same as the majority having the authority to take the physical gold out of your pocket. This is called tyranny of majority.
And here we have precedent. Only because of a relatively minor theft (less than 5%). It was much more with Vericoin. Who will be next?
So if majority has ability to falsify ledger records, it's the same as the majority having the authority to take the physical gold out of your pocket. This is called tyranny of majority.
And here we have precedent. Only because of a relatively minor theft (less than 5%). It was much more with Vericoin. Who will be next?
One of the selling points of crypto I keep reading about is how crypto will take over credit cards because there's no charge backs. Never done the research but I don't think even VISA or MasterCard ever considered a charge back worth around 1.65 million USD.
Correct me if I'm wrong but reversing a transaction was only a much more doable option because NXT and VRC are POS and not as widely distributed as other coins. Less forgers/miners/stakers with control over the network to convince this transaction shouldn't be counted.
Correct me if I'm wrong but reversing a transaction was only a much more doable option because NXT and VRC are POS and not as widely distributed as other coins. Less forgers/miners/stakers with control over the network to convince this transaction shouldn't be counted.
so the optimal solution would be to "convince" the hacker to give all NXTs back...
before the rollback "happens" ...then... it will not happen...
before the rollback "happens" ...then... it will not happen...
Indeed , convince the "hacker' , if indeed it was any.
What is so hard about keeping things the way they happened? Talk about morality and this and that, the currency stays the same, no matter what the people do with it.
The problem is not the past, it is the future if we stay the course.Nxt is not simply a coin it is an ecosystem. With a coin you can cooperate with exchanges and block the thief future actions.
However our problem is with 45M NXT the thief can pretty much destroy the ecosystem if he wishes.
For the record I agree with your position that we should not roll back, but I think it's worth mentioning that the situation is not that simply and clear.
what if the majority of any other coin is stolen ? what difference does it matter what coin it is taken ?
it could have easily been another coin on another exchange..
and when i read what you said i had a reoccurring thought i have not seen anyone here address yet.. and that is..
Why NXT ?
Why was it not some other coin
anyone know ? yet ?
so the optimal solution would be to "convince" the hacker to give all NXTs back...
before the rollback "happens" ...then... it will not happen...
before the rollback "happens" ...then... it will not happen...
It's also a the dumbest decision ever made. You can not rewrite history because it is the right thing to do. Rewriting history is NEVER the right thing to do, if you want ANY credibility that is.
So if I hack into the bank and steal money and the police catch me, forcing me to give it back, they're "rewriting history"?
You have a weird definition for history.
the difference is the paper money will NOT disappear in my hand as i am spending it !
I once got counterfeit money by accident and i found out by trying to spend the one $10 bill i had..
So imagine that bill vanishing from my pocket randomly.
See what i am saying ?
50 million NXT is a huge amount of money. That's almost $2 million. Just realized that I had about $50 worth of Nxt in there. On the Nxt forums, the community is discussing a rollback. Fortunately, I had about 2/3 of my balance in Poloniex. Hope they don't get hacked too.
There should never be and never should have been any rollbacks on cryptocurrencies unless 100% of NXT users are affected by it (absolutely 100%). If
"@#&^ I SOLD AT A LOSS, PLS ROLLBACK"
You said the smartest thing in crypto of the year easily !
This deserves repeating ~
There should never be and never should have been any rollbacks on cryptocurrencies unless 100% of NXT users are affected by it (absolutely 100%). If
Hey Spoetnik and I agree on something.
what ?
i am a bit surprised you agree though considering your an exchange guy of sorts.
i have to admit i am bit surprised by the comment i quoted, a lot of guys i don't know around here have been making some really smart comments lately.
so i can't take credit for other peoples smarts.. i am like Major Healy not the Geenie
i just see this as a growing problem .. it's not about one indecent.
like we're just going to start rolling back all coins for any reason ?
it will become the standard and that REALLY concerns me !
And lets factor in the other victims too.. is that whole entire amount all coins belonging to BTER ?
or will other people be affected ?
What about people who sold off their XYZ coins to buy up coins the hackers dumped coins else where ?
what happens to them ? ..no one cares right ?
Your not inspiring confidence in crypto with a rollback !
There is a lot of ramifications beneath the surface here that needs to be thought out carefully.
I think BTER is robbed they should foot the bill period. (hope they have insurance)
Since there is no regulation then too damn bad they are out of money and learned a life lesson.
Why should Cryptsy for example have to do a good job managing their money when half ass exchanges can rinky dink it get a roll back ?
It's also a the dumbest decision ever made. You can not rewrite history because it is the right thing to do. Rewriting history is NEVER the right thing to do, if you want ANY credibility that is.
So if I hack into the bank and steal money and the police catch me, forcing me to give it back, they're "rewriting history"?
You have a weird definition for history.
You are plain dumb.
It's also a the dumbest decision ever made. You can not rewrite history because it is the right thing to do. Rewriting history is NEVER the right thing to do, if you want ANY credibility that is.
So if I hack into the bank and steal money and the police catch me, forcing me to give it back, they're "rewriting history"?
You have a weird definition for history.
Come back when you have an analogy that somewhat fits this situation. That was weak and very far from what we are talking about here. Please try again.
Thank you
Because "rewriting history" is the perfect analogy.
If you roll it back, NXT is definitely not decentralized.
This will make it centralized and even more useless.
This will make it centralized and even more useless.
You are retarded right?
If the majority of the forging power wants to forge in an alternative chain, it is the most decentralized decision ever made. Every forger has in his hands to forge or not the alternative chain.
If you roll it back, NXT is definitely not decentralized.
This will make it centralized and even more useless.
You mean, if a majority of users decide in a decentralised and consensual way to start using another blockchain, then that is centralisation?This will make it centralized and even more useless.
You are forgetting that the blockchain has always relied on the majority of users to establish history. What you are saying means that it's always been "centralised" around 51% of the hashing. This has always and will always be the case. Forking the chain actually uses this very principle.
Yes! Of course it's decentralised! How do people not see that!
What is so hard about keeping things the way they happened? Talk about morality and this and that, the currency stays the same, no matter what the people do with it.
The problem is not the past, it is the future if we stay the course.Nxt is not simply a coin it is an ecosystem. With a coin you can cooperate with exchanges and block the thief future actions.
However our problem is with 45M NXT the thief can pretty much destroy the ecosystem if he wishes.
For the record I agree with your position that we should not roll back, but I think it's worth mentioning that the situation is not that simply and clear.
Retardest shit ever written
Taun!! you are a genius bro! That post is the biggest amount of shit ever told!
It's also a the dumbest decision ever made. You can not rewrite history because it is the right thing to do. Rewriting history is NEVER the right thing to do, if you want ANY credibility that is.
So if I hack into the bank and steal money and the police catch me, forcing me to give it back, they're "rewriting history"?
You have a weird definition for history.
Come back when you have an analogy that somewhat fits this situation. That was weak and very far from what we are talking about here. Please try again.
Thank you
It's also a the dumbest decision ever made. You can not rewrite history because it is the right thing to do. Rewriting history is NEVER the right thing to do, if you want ANY credibility that is.
So if I hack into the bank and steal money and the police catch me, forcing me to give it back, they're "rewriting history"?
You have a weird definition for history.
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