Topic: BTER.com hacked| 7170 BTC stolen | DON'T KEEP YOUR MONEY ON AN EXCHANGE | - page 39. (Read 119733 times)
February 28, 2015, 10:41:37 PM
So... What is the current situation?
February 28, 2015, 10:40:20 PM
So, after this mess, where would you be moving your altcoins ? (redsn0w, how about a poll ?
)I wouldn't put any significant amount of coins on any exchange.
Especially on a low volume site that you won't be able to trade large amounts anyway.
February 28, 2015, 05:59:13 PM
Not necessarily, this is just an "option", so to speak. You just have to choose what you prefer, namely your money returned to you in full or part of it expropriated, in the case of hackery, that's all. As you can guess, this basically is a rhetoric question.
And it doesn't matter if bter gets hacked again. Besides that, poloniex may get hacked too (since it had been "hacked" already), and you don't know which hack will happen sooner.
Bad question. If you want to say that we should choose exchange for trading keeping in mind who of them can return your money if they will get hacked, then answer will be "none of them" there are no alt coins exchange which can cover big lose of btc in way "return all money". So i would prefer to choose exchange with paranoid security mode, which i can be sure will not scam me itsell with just runing with my money. I can save from hack only one way - spread depo, not keeping big amount on any exchange..
To begin with, you can't be certain about that in regard to any existing exchange out there, unless you are the exchange owner himself. Further on, you seem to have missed the whole point of our debate. It is not about choosing an exchange that could allegedly return the funds if they get stolen, in the first place. In fact, it is about choosing between the two evils, when the evils are known beforehand at that.
It all started with a statement that expropriating a part of clients' deposits had been a good decision (for clients).
February 28, 2015, 05:52:20 PM
Not necessarily, this is just an "option", so to speak. You just have to choose what you prefer, namely your money returned to you in full or part of it expropriated, in the case of hackery, that's all. As you can guess, this basically is a rhetoric question.
And it doesn't matter if bter gets hacked again. Besides that, poloniex may get hacked too (since it had been "hacked" already), and you don't know which hack will happen sooner.
Bad question. If you want to say that we should choose exchange for trading keeping in mind who of them can return your money if they will get hacked, then answer will be "none of them" there are no alt coins exchange which can cover big lose of btc in way "return all money". So i would prefer to choose exchange with paranoid security mode, which i can be sure will not scam me itsell with just runing with my money. I can save from hack only one way - spread depo, not keeping big amount on any exchange..
Actualy only Bitstamp on my memory could get 18k btc lose and "return all money" but they not trading alt coins... and anyway it could be 100k btc lose and they would not able to cover it too, it is not question of free will of exchange.. it just matter of amount of lose.
PS. For little just opened exchange which got hacked in mounth or so after they opened, Poloniex threat situation with hack very well, they promissed to returned btc and only asked for some time. It was best exit from situation. They didn't hold all user's balance for weeks at least:|
February 28, 2015, 05:07:51 PM
With all due respect and all that, but you still didn't answer my question. What would you prefer, i.e. your money taken (some part of) or your money returned (all of it), right now?
No, I'll still never use them again. Various reasons, but transparency is one of them. They should have provided better updates. In this kind of situation, that will buy you a little respect and time.
Suppose they sell the exchange and get enough money to pay off their customers. That doesn't point to competence or integrity. They just got lucky that someone bought it.
I didn't lose anything on BTER, in any case.
Edit: that answers your first question, not the second. I assume the answer to that is obvious.
These are effectively one and the same question within the given context. If you don't see my point clearly, imagine that two exchanges got their clients' money stolen at the same time. One returns all the funds to the customers in full (by selling the exchange or whatever), the other averages out the losses by expropriating a part of the customers personal funds. What exchange would you choose to be at when the job is pulled off?
Sure, but this is apples and apples. BTER is an orange or, more accurately, a lemon. If they come back from this, there's a good chance they'll get hacked again. Also, this is getting a little Schrodingery for me. I get to choose which exchange my money is at when it's hacked...?
Not necessarily, this is just an "option", so to speak. You just have to choose what you prefer, namely your money returned to you in full or part of it expropriated, in the case of hackery, that's all. As you can guess, this basically is a rhetoric question.
And it doesn't matter if bter gets hacked again. Besides that, poloniex may get hacked too (since it had been "hacked" already), and you don't know which hack will happen sooner.
February 28, 2015, 04:50:27 PM
This is a crucial point. I would agree that this may look better (or promising) given the present circumstances (known past vs unknown future). But what if (and this is a big if really) bter allows the withdrawal of all funds (including bitcoins) without limitation and expropriation right tomorrow? Would you still think the same, i.e. poloniex being better than bter in this context?
Besides that, you are being inconsistent here. At first you say that "the exchange owners treated customers well under very difficult circumstances", and then you say that "it was a relatively small amount, of course".
I'm not really interested in playing word games, since it's what I do for a living and I'm not working right now.
In my opinion and given what I know, Polo did ok. Yes, it was a smaller amount, but they found a solution and everyone got their cash back. It was a difficult situation. There's no inconsistency there.
BTER? Well, knowing a little of what they're planning and what happened, I don't have a lot of respect for them and don't want anything more to do with them. I will use Polo.
With all due respect and all that, but you still didn't answer my question. What would you prefer, i.e. your money taken (some part of) or your money returned (all of it), right now?
No, I'll still never use them again. Various reasons, but transparency is one of them. They should have provided better updates. In this kind of situation, that will buy you a little respect and time.
Suppose they sell the exchange and get enough money to pay off their customers. That doesn't point to competence or integrity. They just got lucky that someone bought it.
I didn't lose anything on BTER, in any case.
Edit: that answers your first question, not the second. I assume the answer to that is obvious.
These are effectively one and the same question within the given context. If you don't see my point clearly, imagine that two exchanges got their clients' money stolen at the same time. One returns all the funds to the customers in full (by selling the exchange or whatever), the other averages out the losses by expropriating a part of the customers personal funds. What exchange would you choose to be at when the job is pulled off?
Sure, but this is apples and apples. BTER is an orange or, more accurately, a lemon. If they come back from this, there's a good chance they'll get hacked again. Also, this is getting a little Schrodingery for me. I get to choose which exchange my money is at when it's hacked...?
I'll pass on this one. BTER's not for me.
February 28, 2015, 04:37:42 PM
This is a crucial point. I would agree that this may look better (or promising) given the present circumstances (known past vs unknown future). But what if (and this is a big if really) bter allows the withdrawal of all funds (including bitcoins) without limitation and expropriation right tomorrow? Would you still think the same, i.e. poloniex being better than bter in this context?
Besides that, you are being inconsistent here. At first you say that "the exchange owners treated customers well under very difficult circumstances", and then you say that "it was a relatively small amount, of course".
I'm not really interested in playing word games, since it's what I do for a living and I'm not working right now.
In my opinion and given what I know, Polo did ok. Yes, it was a smaller amount, but they found a solution and everyone got their cash back. It was a difficult situation. There's no inconsistency there.
BTER? Well, knowing a little of what they're planning and what happened, I don't have a lot of respect for them and don't want anything more to do with them. I will use Polo.
With all due respect and all that, but you still didn't answer my question. What would you prefer, i.e. your money taken (some part of) or your money returned (all of it), right now?
No, I'll still never use them again. Various reasons, but transparency is one of them. They should have provided better updates. In this kind of situation, that will buy you a little respect and time.
Suppose they sell the exchange and get enough money to pay off their customers. That doesn't point to competence or integrity. They just got lucky that someone bought it.
I didn't lose anything on BTER, in any case.
Edit: that answers your first question, not the second. I assume the answer to that is obvious.
These are effectively one and the same question within the given context. If you don't see my point clearly, imagine that two exchanges got their clients' money stolen at the same time. One returns all the funds to the customers in full (by selling the exchange or whatever), the other averages out the losses by expropriating a part of the customers personal funds. What exchange would you choose to be at when the job is pulled off?
February 28, 2015, 04:12:06 PM
This is a crucial point. I would agree that this may look better (or promising) given the present circumstances (known past vs unknown future). But what if (and this is a big if really) bter allows the withdrawal of all funds (including bitcoins) without limitation and expropriation right tomorrow? Would you still think the same, i.e. poloniex being better than bter in this context?
Besides that, you are being inconsistent here. At first you say that "the exchange owners treated customers well under very difficult circumstances", and then you say that "it was a relatively small amount, of course".
I'm not really interested in playing word games, since it's what I do for a living and I'm not working right now.
In my opinion and given what I know, Polo did ok. Yes, it was a smaller amount, but they found a solution and everyone got their cash back. It was a difficult situation. There's no inconsistency there.
BTER? Well, knowing a little of what they're planning and what happened, I don't have a lot of respect for them and don't want anything more to do with them. I will use Polo.
With all due respect and all that, but you still didn't answer my question. What would you prefer, i.e. your money taken (some part of) or your money returned (all of it), right now?
No, I'll still never use them again. Various reasons, but transparency is one of them. They should have provided better updates. In this kind of situation, that will buy you a little respect and time.
Suppose they sell the exchange and get enough money to pay off their customers. That doesn't point to competence or integrity. They just got lucky that someone bought it.
I didn't lose anything on BTER, in any case.
Edit: that answers your first question, not the second. I assume the answer to that is obvious.
February 28, 2015, 04:09:20 PM
This is a crucial point. I would agree that this may look better (or promising) given the present circumstances (known past vs unknown future). But what if (and this is a big if really) bter allows the withdrawal of all funds (including bitcoins) without limitation and expropriation right tomorrow? Would you still think the same, i.e. poloniex being better than bter in this context?
Besides that, you are being inconsistent here. At first you say that "the exchange owners treated customers well under very difficult circumstances", and then you say that "it was a relatively small amount, of course".
I'm not really interested in playing word games, since it's what I do for a living and I'm not working right now.
In my opinion and given what I know, Polo did ok. Yes, it was a smaller amount, but they found a solution and everyone got their cash back. It was a difficult situation. There's no inconsistency there.
BTER? Well, knowing a little of what they're planning and what happened, I don't have a lot of respect for them and don't want anything more to do with them. I will use Polo.
With all due respect and all that, but you still didn't answer my question. What would you prefer, i.e. your money taken (some part of) or your money returned (all of it), right now?
February 28, 2015, 04:04:48 PM
This is a crucial point. I would agree that this may look better (or promising) given the present circumstances (known past vs unknown future). But what if (and this is a big if really) bter allows the withdrawal of all funds (including bitcoins) without limitation and expropriation right tomorrow? Would you still think the same, i.e. poloniex being better than bter in this context?
Besides that, you are being inconsistent here. At first you say that "the exchange owners treated customers well under very difficult circumstances", and then you say that "it was a relatively small amount, of course".
I'm not really interested in playing word games, since it's what I do for a living and I'm not working right now.
In my opinion and given what I know, Polo did ok. Yes, it was a smaller amount, but they found a solution and everyone got their cash back. It was a difficult situation. There's no inconsistency there.
BTER? Well, knowing a little of what they're planning and what happened, I don't have a lot of respect for them and don't want anything more to do with them. I will use Polo.
February 28, 2015, 02:44:11 PM
So, after this mess, where would you be moving your altcoins ? (redsn0w, how about a poll ?
)Poloniex looks good so does alts.trade but that pretty basic judgment based on appearances only. No idea how they'd fair when hacked
Poloniex had already got stripped of some 50k dollars in bitcoins through a lame hole in their withdrawal system in 2014. All users ended up having to pay for the robbery by "giving up" a part of their funds.
No. Busoni paid everyone back over a period of time. He is one of the exchange owners who treated customers well under very difficult circumstances.
You are entitled to think so indeed, but nevertheless, many would obviously disagree with you that forcibly taking a part of someone else's funds for covering one's own faults could go as "treating customers well". He didn't sell out his own assets to cover the losses, to begin with.
Everyone got their money back. Under the circumstances, I know which I'd prefer to lose money on.
It was a relatively small amount, of course. But BTER is being less than transparent and I simply don't see how they'll make good on this.
This is a crucial point. I would agree that this may look better (or promising) given the present circumstances (known past vs unknown future). But what if (and this is a big if really) bter allows the withdrawal of all funds (including bitcoins) without limitation and expropriation right tomorrow? Would you still think the same, i.e. poloniex being better than bter in this context?
Besides that, you are being inconsistent here. At first you say that "the exchange owners treated customers well under very difficult circumstances", and then you say that "it was a relatively small amount, of course".
February 28, 2015, 02:36:21 PM
So, after this mess, where would you be moving your altcoins ? (redsn0w, how about a poll ?
)Poloniex looks good so does alts.trade but that pretty basic judgment based on appearances only. No idea how they'd fair when hacked
Poloniex had already got stripped of some 50k dollars in bitcoins through a lame hole in their withdrawal system in 2014. All users ended up having to pay for the robbery by "giving up" a part of their funds.
No. Busoni paid everyone back over a period of time. He is one of the exchange owners who treated customers well under very difficult circumstances.
You are entitled to think so indeed, but nevertheless, many would obviously disagree with you that forcibly taking a part of someone else's funds for covering one's own faults could go as "treating customers well". He didn't sell out his own assets to cover the losses, to begin with.
Everyone got their money back. Under the circumstances, I know which I'd prefer to lose money on.
It was a relatively small amount, of course. But BTER is being less than transparent and I simply don't see how they'll make good on this.
February 28, 2015, 12:33:20 PM
I saw that added next 9 alcoin to withdraw list 
Maybe they should add all at once. why only 9 coins now ? I'm grateful we can withdraw nine, it's a good sign that we will be able to withdraw the others soon.
February 28, 2015, 12:01:10 PM
I saw that added next 9 alcoin to withdraw list
February 28, 2015, 11:35:01 AM
Strange ... i got in 'My Daily Interest' some btc satoshi ... And there is standing that i have 0.01 btc ...
I got interest for 100 doge also ...
edit @tee-rex:
Funny at the same time we are looking in 'My Daily Interest'
I got interest for 100 doge also ...
edit @tee-rex:
Funny at the same time we are looking in 'My Daily Interest'
February 28, 2015, 11:34:20 AM
They keep telling that they will open all.. I still do not lost hope..
If it makes anyone feel better, go and look at the "Dividends and Interest" section of your account.
You should see most of your altcoin balances there even though you can't withdraw them right now.
I find that encouraging.
And you can even get interest daily, if this alleviates your suffering a little.
February 28, 2015, 11:14:09 AM
They keep telling that they will open all.. I still do not lost hope..
If it makes anyone feel better, go and look at the "Dividends and Interest" section of your account.
You should see most of your altcoin balances there even though you can't withdraw them right now.
I find that encouraging.
February 28, 2015, 11:01:54 AM
What the hell they doing today they delete NXT and add some shit coins for withdraw any opinion about this from members are they still going to pay us or no ?
Bter Support (bter)
Feb 28, 15:55
Dear Sir,
The withdrawal of cryptocurrencies will be enabled gradually.
We will enable the other altcoin withdrawals very soon. No worry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They keep telling that they will open all.. I still do not lost hope..
February 28, 2015, 10:59:46 AM
What the hell they doing today they delete NXT and add some shit coins for withdraw any opinion about this from members are they still going to pay us or no ?
Most obviously, they are buying time right now, though this in no case means that they are going to scam. There are a thousand reasons why they might be doing this aside from just running away with our money.
February 28, 2015, 10:56:27 AM
What the hell they doing today they delete NXT and add some shit coins for withdraw any opinion about this from members are they still going to pay us or no ?
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