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Topic: BTER.com hacked| 7170 BTC stolen | DON'T KEEP YOUR MONEY ON AN EXCHANGE | - page 44. (Read 119723 times)

hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
When you place an order, it's a transaction, once it's confirmed it's irreversible, amount that you placed in your order is locked, you cannot spend it, unless you issue another transaction, which cancels the order.
You can try it, it works. But it's not suitable for high frequency trading, placing many small orders (you pay fee per transaction, not per amount), but it's perfect for relatively rare big trades.

If I got you right, then the whole blockchain works as an exchange. This being the case, why do we need an exchange at all (as a distinct entity)?
If you mean NXT AE, it's not a distinct entity, it's integrated in the reference client.

Didn't know that, seems to be worth trying. But what about nxt's that got stolen (or expropriated) at bter? How could this happen at all, and why would people move their nxt's to that exchange (or any other exchange for that matter) in the first place?
NXT AE has it's limitations, I already mentioned it. MGW doesn't support as many cryptocurrencies as Bter used to support. Many people prefer traditional exchanges. Probably some people trade NXT without even being aware of it's features.

Is it possible to create some metacoin with a single purpose of making its blockchain a decentralised exchange for trading other major coins? Say, you want to sell a bitcoin and send it to a randomly generated address whose private key is distributed across this metacoin blockchain and which will be available only to whoever sells what you want to buy.

Would such a scheme work?

UPDATE: Since this is off-topic here, I created a new topic for the discussion of this question.
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 506
If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
When you place an order, it's a transaction, once it's confirmed it's irreversible, amount that you placed in your order is locked, you cannot spend it, unless you issue another transaction, which cancels the order.
You can try it, it works. But it's not suitable for high frequency trading, placing many small orders (you pay fee per transaction, not per amount), but it's perfect for relatively rare big trades.

If I got you right, then the whole blockchain works as an exchange. This being the case, why do we need an exchange at all (as a distinct entity)?
If you mean NXT AE, it's not a distinct entity, it's integrated in the reference client.

Didn't know that, seems to be worth trying. But what about nxt's that got stolen (or expropriated) at bter? How could this happen at all, and why would people move their nxt's to that exchange (or any other exchange for that matter) in the first place?
NXT AE has it's limitations, I already mentioned it. MGW doesn't support as many cryptocurrencies as Bter used to support. Many people prefer traditional exchanges. Probably some people trade NXT without even being aware of it's features.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 251

Though I agree that it gives some comfort or consolation to see the "old good bter" on your screen.

Yeah. Specially this bit...




Man, I was just checking their site earlier on and this caught my eyes. I wanted to post it, but you beat me to it  Grin
Lolled hard.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
When you place an order, it's a transaction, once it's confirmed it's irreversible, amount that you placed in your order is locked, you cannot spend it, unless you issue another transaction, which cancels the order.
You can try it, it works. But it's not suitable for high frequency trading, placing many small orders (you pay fee per transaction, not per amount), but it's perfect for relatively rare big trades.

If I got you right, then the whole blockchain works as an exchange. This being the case, why do we need an exchange at all (as a distinct entity)?
If you mean NXT AE, it's not a distinct entity, it's integrated in the reference client.

Didn't know that, seems to be worth trying. But what about nxt's that got stolen (or expropriated) at bter? How could this happen at all, and why would people move their nxt's to that exchange (or any other exchange for that matter) in the first place?
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 506
If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
When you place an order, it's a transaction, once it's confirmed it's irreversible, amount that you placed in your order is locked, you cannot spend it, unless you issue another transaction, which cancels the order.
You can try it, it works. But it's not suitable for high frequency trading, placing many small orders (you pay fee per transaction, not per amount), but it's perfect for relatively rare big trades.

If I got you right, then the whole blockchain works as an exchange. This being the case, why do we need an exchange at all (as a distinct entity)?
If you mean NXT AE, it's not a distinct entity, it's integrated in the reference client.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
When you place an order, it's a transaction, once it's confirmed it's irreversible, amount that you placed in your order is locked, you cannot spend it, unless you issue another transaction, which cancels the order.
You can try it, it works. But it's not suitable for high frequency trading, placing many small orders (you pay fee per transaction, not per amount), but it's perfect for relatively rare big trades.

If I got you right, then the whole blockchain works as an exchange. This being the case, why do we need an exchange at all (as a distinct entity)?
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 506
If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
When you place an order, it's a transaction, once it's confirmed it's irreversible, amount that you placed in your order is locked, you cannot spend it, unless you issue another transaction, which cancels the order.
You can try it, it works. But it's not suitable for high frequency trading, placing many small orders (you pay fee per transaction, not per amount), but it's perfect for relatively rare big trades.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
How is that decentralized if your real dollars are at the exchange? If they got stolen, your IOUs will be just junk, as I get it.
NXT AE is a truly decentralised exchange, as long as you trade 'native' assets, which exist on NXT blockchain. But if you want to trade for example BTC, here's a problem, BTC exists outside of NXT blockchain, you need something to represent BTC, some NXT asset, which is backed by BTC. If company which issues that asset gets hacked as looses their BTC, the asset becomes worthless. But is Tether somehow better? I don't think so.

If so, how is the execution of a deal guaranteed then? Say, I want to exchange my asset for another asset from someone else at this exchange, and then I change my mind and decide to cancel the deal (or even run away with a purchased asset), what would not allow me to do just that?
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 506
How is that decentralized if your real dollars are at the exchange? If they got stolen, your IOUs will be just junk, as I get it.
NXT AE is a truly decentralised exchange, as long as you trade 'native' assets, which exist on NXT blockchain. But if you want to trade for example BTC, here's a problem, BTC exists outside of NXT blockchain, you need something to represent BTC, some NXT asset, which is backed by BTC. If company which issues that asset gets hacked and looses their BTC, the asset becomes worthless. But is Tether somehow better? I don't think so.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1017
That is something that Tether will solve. Then you will have "fiat" on a decentralized exchange.
Looks like Tether uses the same mechanism of IOUs backed by fiat currencies or what those IOUs represent. It's already several months since such things were implemented in NXT. You can trade for example USD in the form of CoinoUSD on completely decentralised NXT AE, as well as on some centralised exchanges.

Need to read about CoinoUSD..  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
That is something that Tether will solve. Then you will have "fiat" on a decentralized exchange.
Looks like Tether uses the same mechanism of IOUs backed by fiat currencies or what those IOUs represent. It's already several months since such things were implemented in NXT. You can trade for example USD in the form of CoinoUSD on completely decentralised NXT AE, as well as on some centralised exchanges.

How is that decentralized if your real dollars are at the exchange? If they got stolen (or "expropriated"), your IOUs will be just junk, as I get it.
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 506
That is something that Tether will solve. Then you will have "fiat" on a decentralized exchange.
Looks like Tether uses the same mechanism of IOUs backed by fiat currencies or what those IOUs represent. It's already several months since such things were implemented in NXT. You can trade for example USD in the form of CoinoUSD on completely decentralised NXT AE, as well as on some centralised exchanges.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1017
Yes, indeed I've told (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers") but I'm sure that bter.com will not be as earlier. Can I ask you if you personally will use again bter.com?

Bter or not bter?

Presently I don't know for sure, but rather yes, I will, provided they return all the funds indeed and the liquidity doesn't evaporate. Until there are usable decentralized exchanges in the cryptocurrency world, we don't have much choice actually.

Though I still don't understand how a decentralized exchange works.

The question about the decentralized exchange is so complicated, because it doesn't work properly with the FIAT value (bank transfer for example). Instead I think it works "good" with the exchange | btc >> altcoins and vice versa|.

And how does a decentralized exchange work with cryptocurrencies? What is different in it that fundamentally distinguishes it from a centralized exchange?

That is something that Tether will solve. Then you will have "fiat" on a decentralized exchange.
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 506
It's p2p. No middleman. No transferring funds to the exchange account, where they can go missing. Like bitcoin itself vs fiat money transfers (no banks/processing companies).
NXT Multigateway is the closest thing there is so far. InstantDEX will give that some extra speed so hopefully we'll start to see worthwhile volumes soon.
Doesn't MGW issue IOUs in form of NXT AE assets? If so, MGW is the center of this exchange, if it gets hacked it's IOUs will loose their backing and become worthless, pretty much like with any centralised exchange. Am I wrong?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
It's p2p. No middleman. No transferring funds to the exchange account, where they can go missing. Like bitcoin itself vs fiat money transfers (no banks/processing companies).
NXT Multigateway is the closest thing there is so far. InstantDEX will give that some extra speed so hopefully we'll start to see worthwhile volumes soon.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
Yes, indeed I've told (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers") but I'm sure that bter.com will not be as earlier. Can I ask you if you personally will use again bter.com?

Bter or not bter?

Presently I don't know for sure, but rather yes, I will, provided they return all the funds indeed and the liquidity doesn't evaporate. Until there are usable decentralized exchanges in the cryptocurrency world, we don't have much choice actually.

Though I still don't understand how a decentralized exchange works.

The question about the decentralized exchange is so complicated, because it doesn't work properly with the FIAT value (bank transfer for example). Instead I think it works "good" with the exchange | btc >> altcoins and vice versa|.

And how does a decentralized exchange work with cryptocurrencies? What is different in it that fundamentally distinguishes it from a centralized exchange?
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Strange that bter do not have a plan. What happens after withdraw? Typical Chinese, nothing is said. Soon they say it has never existed BTER.

If you don't have a plan, plan to lose. Bter's plan is to restart the exchange as if nothing at all has happened. Yeah, so typical.

i doubt they will earn the trust before the "hacked" incident if all the reimburse is not doing well, once they reimburse all, then i think some might trust bter again

Bter and cryptsy were the two most liquid altcoin exchanges out there, cryptsy being slow on deposits and withdrawals, bter being fast (actually one of the fastest of all cryptoexchanges, if not the fastest).

This is obvious, I think no one will use again bter.com as cryptocurrency exchange (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers"). Now all the users are waiting the possibility of the altcoins withdrawal.

20-30% doesn't look like "no one will use again bter.com".


Yes, indeed I've told (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers") but I'm sure that bter.com will not be as earlier. Can I ask you if you personally will use again bter.com?

Bter or not bter?

Presently I don't know for sure, but rather yes, I will, provided they return all the funds indeed and the liquidity doesn't evaporate. Until there are usable decentralized exchanges in the cryptocurrency world, we don't have much choice actually.

Though I still don't understand how a decentralized exchange works.

The question about the decentralized exchange is so complicated, because it doesn't work properly with the FIAT value (bank transfer for example). Instead I think it works "good" with the exchange | btc >> altcoins and vice versa|.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
Strange that bter do not have a plan. What happens after withdraw? Typical Chinese, nothing is said. Soon they say it has never existed BTER.

If you don't have a plan, plan to lose. Bter's plan is to restart the exchange as if nothing at all has happened. Yeah, so typical.

i doubt they will earn the trust before the "hacked" incident if all the reimburse is not doing well, once they reimburse all, then i think some might trust bter again

Bter and cryptsy were the two most liquid altcoin exchanges out there, cryptsy being slow on deposits and withdrawals, bter being fast (actually one of the fastest of all cryptoexchanges, if not the fastest).

This is obvious, I think no one will use again bter.com as cryptocurrency exchange (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers"). Now all the users are waiting the possibility of the altcoins withdrawal.

20-30% doesn't look like "no one will use again bter.com".


Yes, indeed I've told (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers") but I'm sure that bter.com will not be as earlier. Can I ask you if you personally will use again bter.com?

Bter or not bter?

Presently I don't know for sure, but rather yes, I will, provided they return all the funds indeed and the liquidity doesn't evaporate. Until there are usable decentralized exchanges in the cryptocurrency world, we don't have much choice actually.

Though I still don't understand how a decentralized exchange works.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000

Does anyone know if the overall balance figure means anything ? (The one that estimates your aggregate balance in terms of BTC / USD).

Mine doesn't seem right.

It seems far too high. (Unless some alt I've forgotten about suddenly blew up in price since I was last on BTER).


Yes, its broken.

They are allowing the fiat withdrawal firsts, probably to avoid legal troubles.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Strange that bter do not have a plan. What happens after withdraw? Typical Chinese, nothing is said. Soon they say it has never existed BTER.

If you don't have a plan, plan to lose. Bter's plan is to restart the exchange as if nothing at all has happened. Yeah, so typical.

i doubt they will earn the trust before the "hacked" incident if all the reimburse is not doing well, once they reimburse all, then i think some might trust bter again

Bter and cryptsy were the two most liquid altcoin exchanges out there, cryptsy being slow on deposits and withdrawals, bter being fast (actually one of the fastest of all cryptoexchanges, if not the fastest).

This is obvious, I think no one will use again bter.com as cryptocurrency exchange (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers"). Now all the users are waiting the possibility of the altcoins withdrawal.

20-30% doesn't look like "no one will use again bter.com".


Yes, indeed I've told (maybe only the 20-30 % of the "customers") but I'm sure that bter.com will not be as earlier. Can I ask you if you personally will use again bter.com?

I will use it only if they start to use multisig address for their cold wallet , and (why not) also the the deposit addresses.
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