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Topic: Build this and I will come - page 3. (Read 3160 times)

legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
September 30, 2013, 06:15:54 PM
#10
on your face  Grin JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)  

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.    

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust.  
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe.  
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know Smiley. to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it.  


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."        

1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback?  Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause?

5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly.  I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof.  The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand.  The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all.  Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand?  Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet!  This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk.

6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power.


I dont have the answers but when they are built I will be back.


I want a car with unbreakable components - I should never have to worry about a flat tire, changing oil or batteries, and it certainly shouldn't ever be possible for me to get into an accident.  When they build cars like this, ill be back.

I'm not sure you got the point of my reply.  If I came in to your auto shop and I mentioned to you what I stated above, you'd think I'm nuts.  It's the nature of components to wear and break down over time, and a car wouldn't really be a car if it were impossible to crash it.  Likewise, some of your demands are infeasible if not impossible altogether, and furthermore, most of your complaints already have implimented solutions, but you didnt care to familiarize yourself with them. But, you don't know this is the case because, as you admitted, you don't get "tech" stuff.  However, then you go about blaming BTC for its shortcomings when really you should be focusing on your own ignorance.  

If you don't recognize how your ignorance is influencing your opinion, then you'll likely never use BTC again.  If I don't do the same, ill never drive a car again.

On a side note, i'd encourage you to think about some of your ideas  about how you would like Bitcoin to look, and then try to think about why some of them are just bad ideas altogether that, if implemented, I'd bet you'd hate.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
September 30, 2013, 05:49:29 PM
#9
Social networks can be a system of reputation management, but they don't belong to the blockchain. The dollar has been very successful without a reputation management system built-in. We shall see BTC for what it is: a currency. There will always be good and bad people, exchanging fiat or BTC, but neither fiat nor BTC has any responsibility in telling who's who.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
September 30, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
#7
on your face  Grin JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)   

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.     

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know Smiley. to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. 


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."         

1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback?  Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause?

5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly.  I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof.  The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand.  The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all.  Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand?  Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet!  This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk.

6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power.


I dont have the answers but when they are built I will be back.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
September 30, 2013, 04:55:11 PM
#6
Or....

Dont accept PayPal for bitcoins...stop trying to find a way to get around that fact.

It has to happen for it to work. Period

You have to be able to trade for debit card payments, paypal, credit cards, bank transfer. That is the only way. 
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
September 30, 2013, 04:22:55 PM
#5
Or....

Dont accept PayPal for bitcoins...stop trying to find a way to get around that fact.
AU
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 30, 2013, 04:18:27 PM
#4
A successful merchant got hacked/scammed whatever.. I feel your pain man but the answer isn't walking away. Just establish stronger relationships with peeps you trust. Use more caution
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
September 30, 2013, 03:19:56 PM
#3
on your face  Grin JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)   

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.     

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know Smiley. to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. 


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."         

1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback?  Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause?

5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly.  I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof.  The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand.  The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all.  Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand?  Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet!  This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk.

6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
September 30, 2013, 03:01:18 PM
#2
I do not understand why someone would rate wallets though, it would seem to make much more sense to me to be a trusted merchant.

Then you could choose to spend your bitcoins with merchants that you trust, and develop your own network.

This is no different than the real world, people get ripped off daily and don't get what they thought they were getting.  These business are usually ousted in some way and cannot stand the test of time.

I don't want people rating my wallet, this can work in reverse on you.  For instance you engage in a transaction and you fully adhered to your side of the deal, whatever that may be and the other user rates you negatively.  Now you have a ding on your credit that you do not deserve.

Why not just make trusted retailers within the network?  Make people apply to get some cert or icon if they want to be trusted.

No need to wreck the entire foundation of Bitcoin and start another path, all of your concerns can be satisfied and still let people have the privacy of their own wallet.

As per your grandma, why on earth does she need to use bitcoins today?  She doesn't, I am sure as people grow older that are more accustomed to digital technology like the internet can use bitcoins, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out how to download and use a desktop client, especially if your on a mac Smiley
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
September 30, 2013, 02:38:02 PM
#1
on your face  Grin JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)   

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.     

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know Smiley. to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. 


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."         
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