bustabit – The original crash game - page 79.

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on October 19, 2019, 11:59:55 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

quoted, give me a minute Tongue

Take your time. I promise I won't edit or delete any posts in the mean time Wink

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on October 19, 2019, 11:59:55 PM

Edit #3: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bustadice-next-generation-dice-2219681

I 100% standby everything I wrote there. It's factually correct, and not misleading in the slightest. If you think that supports your arguments that I misrepresented both ("bustabit" and "bustadice") as being provably fair for investor, you should probably close your computer and come back tomorrow and reread over this stuff with a clear head.

BayAreaCoins

legendary

Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on October 19, 2019, 11:51:59 PM

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so. Stop.

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

quoted, give me a minute Tongue

Edit #1: You didn't type this?

"Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investing becomes provably fair."

Edit #2: I'm going to find the forum post as well. Give me a few more minutes. I have like 370 pages of past posts.

Edit #4: You for sure typed this! Thanks for that Bitcoin! https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50191132 I should have posted this one before #3. (I went ahead and moved this one above #3)

Edit #3: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bustadice-next-generation-dice-2219681

Edit #5" https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45335901

Edit #6: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.22396650
#6 Quoted:

Quote from: devans on September 30, 2017, 08:17:33 AM

Advanced provably fair system designed to protect not only the players, but also investors

...
Similar to how JustDice pioneered provably fair dice games, we hope that bustadice will considerably improve the situation for investors and set the standard for casino investing.

Enhanced provable fairness
bustadice builds upon conventional provably fair systems to provide additional guarantees to players, investors and the casino itself:
...
For investors: Neither I nor Ryan can undetectably cheat by predicting future rolls. Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investing becomes provably fair.

Edit #7: https://i.imgur.com/P4STV89.png (picture from the homepage of Bustadice)

Quote from: ?? on ??

I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing.

I believe I have "remotely" shown that you have claimed that BustaDice and/or BustaBit is provably-fair for investors when it is in fact not (see "Edit #4).

I could have sworn that you said in a thread after this one that you'd offer .1 BTC if I could show a link with Daniel stating investing was provably-fair... I don't see it anymore, however, Edit #6 & #7 shows that.

It seems like you owe me BTC at this point. My bitcoin address is: bc1qwupmf3gc6ql8thl3eqmkce6uuur4prj4schw55

BayAreaCoins

legendary

Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: ?? on ??

@BayAreaCoins I think you're just confusing people

I think you're (or whoever) confusing people by grossly misusing the word "provably fair".

Quote from: ?? on ??

talking about bustadice in the bustabit thread.

I believe I have seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so. Stop.

This isn't the first time you and I have spoken about this. (99% sure we spoke about it in this thread in fact)

Quote from: ?? on ??

The investor guarantees and claims there are different than the ones here.

Are they? How so? Are you saying that either game is actually provably fair for investors?

You're making guarantees to investors now?

Quote from: ?? on ??

For the sake of everyone's sanity, it's best to discuss bustadice in the bustadice thread, and bustabit in this thread.

I think investors are traditionally pretty smart folks. I'm sure they will manage.

BayAreaCoins

legendary

Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: suchmoon on October 19, 2019, 09:26:16 PM

How is it misleading if it says right there in that Google snippet: "Assuming you trust the two [bustadice and auditor] not to collude".

Do you understand what provably fair means? It means you do not have to trust individuals & you can self verify cheats. It isn't "provable" if it relies on individuals. It's probably-fair (maybe).

Here are several quotes from RHavar:

Quote from: ?? on ??

So personally I am reasonably convinced the game seeding was done fairly, but I'm not sure it's done well enough to say it's provably fair (maybe "probably fair" is more appropriate?)

Quote from: RHavar on July 14, 2018, 05:57:28 AM

That system is known as "provably fair" and contains absolutely everything you need to prove the game is fair. While i do admit it requires quite a bit of technical knowledge, it has the advantage that anyone can verify the game for everyone. So if you can find someone who understands how the maths primitives work, it should be easy to verify =)

Quote from: RHavar on December 29, 2018, 01:31:30 AM

You're kind of mixing up terminology here, but you're also on the wrong track. Provably fair means you can prove the game was fair. End of story. If you can't do that, then it's not provably fair.

Quote from: RHavar on November 29, 2018, 11:58:13 PM

In the sense that a normal bitcoin casino offers "provably fair" which means "it can cheat you, but you can detect if they do"

Quote from: ?? on ??

So my strong advice for players would be to use a system they can verify themselves (i.e. provably fair)

Here is a quote from the Bustadice thread from Ryan tonight:

Quote from: RHavar on October 19, 2019, 09:07:08 PM

which states the caveat pretty explicitly. Although I actually agree with you in that provably-fair is the wrong term for it. I'd probably write the copy as "Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investors are given additional protections against cheating" or something of that sort

Tipstar

sr. member

Activity: 1932

Merit: 300

Vave.com - Crypto Casino

Quote from: suchmoon on October 19, 2019, 09:26:16 PM

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on October 19, 2019, 08:41:35 PM

I think you are misleading investors that investing is Provably Fair is a bit manipulative.

These games are only Provably Fair proveable fair to players, these investing sites are currently not Provably Fair to investors. (besides maybe PF to you and devan, but it is definitely not PF to me if I invest.)

Investing is not Provably Fair by math. Period. Please consider changing this.

How is it misleading if it says right there in that Google snippet: "Assuming you trust the two [bustadice and auditor] not to collude".

Investors need to trust the owner. If you don't trust, you should not invest. Bustabit is an old gambling site and it's stats speaks of itself.
With the new rule of site getting commission only from the profit of investors, it would be a much better platform for users as well as investors.
The removal of dilution fee may change some earning statistics for long term users.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on October 19, 2019, 08:41:35 PM

I think you are misleading investors that investing is Provably Fair is a bit manipulative.

These games are only Provably Fair proveable fair to players, these investing sites are currently not Provably Fair to investors. (besides maybe PF to you and devan, but it is definitely not PF to me if I invest.)

Investing is not Provably Fair by math. Period. Please consider changing this.

How is it misleading if it says right there in that Google snippet: "Assuming you trust the two [bustadice and auditor] not to collude".

BayAreaCoins

legendary

Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: ?? on ??

So the only thing I can see that I think is strictly beneficial is trying to make sure that casinos are consumer-friendly casinos as possible (i.e. fair, transparent, no manipulative/lockin bullshit like roll-over reqs etc.)

I think you are misleading investors that investing is Provably Fair is a bit manipulative.

These games are only Provably Fair proveable fair to players, these investing sites are currently not Provably Fair to investors. (besides maybe PF to you and devan, but it is definitely not PF to me if I invest.)

Investing is not Provably Fair by math. Period. Please consider changing this.

Quote from: RHavar on March 03, 2018, 10:28:46 AM

Because investing isn't provably fair

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1722

Quote from: Battareus on October 19, 2019, 12:26:29 PM

It seems to me that would be honest to gambling people to limit the maximum bet to 100,000 bits, if someone loses large sums it could ruin his life, I don’t think that the person can recover after a huge loss which is more than his wage which he can get for the whole life.

Someone could have enough coins left over from older days that betting tens of bitcoins at a given time is not an issue for them, if they feel like betting good for them and for bustabit's investors.

And they could still lose a lot of money with a series of smaller bets — as many do.

https://www.bustabit.com/faq/gambling-addiction

Battareus

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

It seems to me that would be honest to gambling people to limit the maximum bet to 100,000 bits, if someone loses large sums it could ruin his life, I don’t think that the person can recover after a huge loss which is more than his wage which he can get for the whole life.

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1722

Quote from: redsun114 on October 19, 2019, 08:48:12 AM

Yeah and considering there is a house edge in this game it means you will profit no matter what, there is absolutely no way you will lose money investing into this casino, sure you can lose if you get in and someone wins big and you get out, but as long as you stay as long as required you will always make money for sure.

That is the trick, you have to wait and if you wait enough eventually you will make money however some people get too afraid and leave too early and they may end up with some loss but the logic here is to have house edge on your favor (which we do) and wait, sure there could be times when profit goes down but in general there is literally no technical way that we don't make a profit, maybe there will be a huge loss one day but wait it out and you will be in profit for sure.

It's not guaranteed, a very rich gambler with a lucky streak can still wipe out the bankroll, even if it's unlikely at current max profit per bet to bankroll ratios. Or it may take very long time for the investors to recover their losses if for some reason the site loses popularity after a whale leaves with a lot of bitcoins. People who have offsite bankroll should be especially careful; 400 BTC left the offsite bankroll yesteday or so.
But as things stand, PredictableLegacy just lost 200 BTC.

redsun114

hero member

Activity: 2730

Merit: 585

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: virasog on October 19, 2019, 01:00:05 AM

All business involve the risk but the crash games are more risker than ever. Anyone who comes to play the crash games should understand that it can make him big loss too. However incipite of all the risk, I like to play bustabit crash games as it has a lot of fun playing the game.
Finally its our money and we can spent/risk in what ever way we want.

Yeah and considering there is a house edge in this game it means you will profit no matter what, there is absolutely no way you will lose money investing into this casino, sure you can lose if you get in and someone wins big and you get out, but as long as you stay as long as required you will always make money for sure.

That is the trick, you have to wait and if you wait enough eventually you will make money however some people get too afraid and leave too early and they may end up with some loss but the logic here is to have house edge on your favor (which we do) and wait, sure there could be times when profit goes down but in general there is literally no technical way that we don't make a profit, maybe there will be a huge loss one day but wait it out and you will be in profit for sure.

virasog

legendary

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1172

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: JeromeTash on October 18, 2019, 11:21:21 PM

Quote from: darewaller on October 18, 2019, 11:45:56 AM

I don't understand how people can like the fact that they got 500+ btc in profits as a whole and then lost 100 and then suddenly decide volatility is bad. Its the same people who said bitcoin is a worthless useless made up thing when it went from 20k to 3k but never really seen them talk about how awesome it is then when it went to 20k to begin with.

Same logic, these people like to collect their profits, make a decent return but then the moment they start to lose money "the volatility bla bla bla", well I am sorry but when you are investing in a casino and a casino that has even profited you before, then you are taking the risk that sometimes people will win, it is gambling there are ups and downs, on the long run house will always win but there will be short bursts of wins like this.

Those are people who don't understand the word "Risk" at all.
In the investment or Business world. Once you put out your money on something expecting some profit out it. It doesn't matter what kind of business it is, there is always a risk involved.

Naive People always want to focus on profits forgetting that losses can also happen at certain points.

All business involve the risk but the crash games are more risker than ever. Anyone who comes to play the crash games should understand that it can make him big loss too. However incipite of all the risk, I like to play bustabit crash games as it has a lot of fun playing the game.
Finally its our money and we can spent/risk in what ever way we want.

JeromeTash

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 1261

Heisenberg

Quote from: darewaller on October 18, 2019, 11:45:56 AM

I don't understand how people can like the fact that they got 500+ btc in profits as a whole and then lost 100 and then suddenly decide volatility is bad. Its the same people who said bitcoin is a worthless useless made up thing when it went from 20k to 3k but never really seen them talk about how awesome it is then when it went to 20k to begin with.

Same logic, these people like to collect their profits, make a decent return but then the moment they start to lose money "the volatility bla bla bla", well I am sorry but when you are investing in a casino and a casino that has even profited you before, then you are taking the risk that sometimes people will win, it is gambling there are ups and downs, on the long run house will always win but there will be short bursts of wins like this.

Those are people who don't understand the word "Risk" at all.
In the investment or Business world. Once you put out your money on something expecting some profit out it. It doesn't matter what kind of business it is, there is always a risk involved.

Naive People always want to focus on profits forgetting that losses can also happen at certain points.

Timetwister

legendary

Activity: 1199

Merit: 1047

I wish there were more whales, they make investing really profitable.

dunfida

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1140

Quote from: darewaller on October 18, 2019, 11:45:56 AM

I don't understand how people can like the fact that they got 500+ btc in profits as a whole and then lost 100 and then suddenly decide volatility is bad. Its the same people who said bitcoin is a worthless useless made up thing when it went from 20k to 3k but never really seen them talk about how awesome it is then when it went to 20k to begin with.

Same logic, these people like to collect their profits, make a decent return but then the moment they start to lose money "the volatility bla bla bla", well I am sorry but when you are investing in a casino and a casino that has even profited you before, then you are taking the risk that sometimes people will win, it is gambling there are ups and downs, on the long run house will always win but there will be short bursts of wins like this.

Get used to it.People doesnt really have that compliment when they are benefited but when the time comes that the situation turns up side down then
they do already starts to complain and saying up things negatively.House always wins but these big wins from players is inevitable which would mainly affect
investors side.So nothing surprises here!

thereg1

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Quote from: darewaller on October 18, 2019, 11:45:56 AM

I don't understand how people can like the fact that they got 500+ btc in profits as a whole and then lost 100 and then suddenly decide volatility is bad. Its the same people who said bitcoin is a worthless useless made up thing when it went from 20k to 3k but never really seen them talk about how awesome it is then when it went to 20k to begin with.

Same logic, these people like to collect their profits, make a decent return but then the moment they start to lose money "the volatility bla bla bla", well I am sorry but when you are investing in a casino and a casino that has even profited you before, then you are taking the risk that sometimes people will win, it is gambling there are ups and downs, on the long run house will always win but there will be short bursts of wins like this.

I think if given the choice I would rather not be included in bets of say of over 5 btc. Smaller bets spread out the risk, I am not a gambler as such myself and I am relying on the house edge over many bets to slowly net a profit, I wouldn't 'all in' this btc on a bet I had slightly more than 50% chance of winning. I don't think I should be judged so harshly for not wanting my investment here to be so volatile. I have been happy with bustabit and I think daniel has done a great job, I just don't want to wake up rekt by whales if something similar happens again with the max bet so high. I have divested now, good luck with the site.

darewaller

hero member

Activity: 2926

Merit: 640

I don't understand how people can like the fact that they got 500+ btc in profits as a whole and then lost 100 and then suddenly decide volatility is bad. Its the same people who said bitcoin is a worthless useless made up thing when it went from 20k to 3k but never really seen them talk about how awesome it is then when it went to 20k to begin with.

Same logic, these people like to collect their profits, make a decent return but then the moment they start to lose money "the volatility bla bla bla", well I am sorry but when you are investing in a casino and a casino that has even profited you before, then you are taking the risk that sometimes people will win, it is gambling there are ups and downs, on the long run house will always win but there will be short bursts of wins like this.

DarkStar_

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 3284

Quote from: thereg1 on October 17, 2019, 03:30:55 PM

months of investing profit rekt by PredictableLegacy

increasing betting limits and so increasing volatility like this isn't a good thing for people like me who wanted a half stable interesting place to put some of their btc. maybe you dont have much sympathy for investors but i have been recommending this site for a long time and I feel a bit sore. max bet doesn't need to be more than a few BTC as we are working with only 0.5% house edge, whales can easily come in like this and ruin it for us. I don't want to be the counterparty for huge bets, i would rather be in a pool against many smaller ones.

He did build up a lot of the investing profit though, he's still in a 600 BTC hole. Your best bet for very low volatility casino investments is probably Crypto-Games.net; there's a 0.5% max profit and low volume so you can have much slower but more stable growth.

GamblingSiteFinder

full member

Activity: 211

Merit: 100

gamblingsitefinder.com

Quote from: thereg1 on October 17, 2019, 03:30:55 PM

months of investing profit rekt by PredictableLegacy

increasing betting limits and so increasing volatility like this isn't a good thing for people like me who wanted a half stable interesting place to put some of their btc. maybe you dont have much sympathy for investors but i have been recommending this site for a long time and I feel a bit sore. max bet doesn't need to be more than a few BTC as we are working with only 0.5% house edge, whales can easily come in like this and ruin it for us. I don't want to be the counterparty for huge bets, i would rather be in a pool against many smaller ones.

Looking at my Bustabit bankroll investment certainly hurts right now, but let's be honest, if PredictableLegacy lost another ~550 BTC today, this would not be an issue. In fact, you'd probably be refreshing the page every two minutes jumping for joy. We all knew the risks when we joined the bankroll, I say bring on the variance!

But in the meantime, congrats PredictableLegacy on the massive win!

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1722

Actually, volatility is lower now with how commissions are now calculated. With a lower max bet, the site would be less attractive to whales. Just how profits have been quite generous in the past, among other reasons due to whales leaving a lot of money behind, it also means that once in a while the pendulum can swing in the other direction. But as long as the site remains similarly popular it shouldn't be a problem, and the whale is still >600 BTC in the red. And he may well continue losing if he doesn't walk away.

Topic: bustabit – The original crash game - page 79. (Read 61171 times)