Topic: bustabit – The original crash game - page 96. (Read 61435 times)

it is true what you are saying, but my question is really simple, it doesn't matter if I have a 50% stake or a 0.002% stake, if the sites PROFITS goes from 2k to 2.2k (example) this means my investment also grew 10%,

and I have a more personal question for you RHVAR, do you use the offsite system at all? because if you only use the onsite system you are exposed to a 1.5Kelly, but that dosnt mean you will eventually loose your entire bankroll, this only happens if you use the offsite system exposing yourself to more than 1.5Kelly.

thanks for all your responses RHVAR im trying to wrap my head around this

I'm not sure it is. There's a 2% dilution which I think represents a pretty significant discouragement for new investors. Meanwhile site profits have been rather amazing (eyeballing it: https://dicesites.com/bustabit  and daily average volume seems to be 600 BTC? or so). So I bet the vast majority of recent bankroll growth is from profits (although at the start it would've been all due to new investors)



Close again, but not quite. When you invest, your stake is based on how much the bankroll is (regardless of how much of that is profit). But then *after* you invested, all you care is about profits. So imagine the bankroll was 100 BTC, you put in another 100. Then you'd own ~50% of the bankroll.  Now you'd get ~50% of the site profits/loses

oh okay now I understand, but what what I really was referring to is the sites PROFITS, if the sites profit goes from 100 BTC to 110 BTC or from 2k BTC to 2.2K BTC does that mean my investment in the bankroll also grows 10% if all of the if there if the investment and divesting remains the same?

Lol when the investment increases does people really think its purely because people lose money on the site and bustabit and all of the investors money grow thanks to the profits made ?

I mean isn't it obvious that investment increases by faster with more investors than the profits, profits are still something that helps you grow your money of course but its not as fast as investors who see this as an opportunity. Depositing is quite easy as well so it takes no time and a good idea to be supporting a system that is designed to make you money.

It is great that Rhavar is always here helping answering questions of people but haven't you handed this off to devans ? I always wandered about the relations you three have, who owns bustabit and whats the relation between you and devans and you and bustabit and devans and bustabit, it is all a bit like a love triangle at this moment .

No. You're confusing a few concepts. If you were invested in the bankroll when it was 100 BTC, and then it grew to 2.2k BTC purely by profits -- then you would've made 22x. But that's not really what's happened. It's best to look at it individually:


* A player loses X btc:
The bankroll will increase by (0.9975*X), but all investors will have the same % ownership (stake) as they did. (e.g. They own the same amount of a bankroll that just increased). Note: how the bankroll increased by slightly less than the player lost (that's cause Daniel is pocketing some money as commissions)


* A player wins X btc with a bet of Y:
The bankroll will decrease by (X + 0.0025*Y), but all investors will have the same % ownership (stake) as they did. (e.g. They own the same amount of a bankroll that just shrunk)


* An investors divests X btc:
The investor is given X btc. The bankroll decreases by X btc. Each investor's stake is adjusted such that  (stake*bankroll) is exactly equivalent to before the divestment (e.g. So they now own more of a smaller bankroll) with the exception of the investor who divested, whose (stake*bankroll) will be X less than before.

* An investor invests X btc:
The investor loses X btc from their balance. The bankroll goes up by 0.98*X btc. The person who invested stake is adjusted such that (stake*bankroll) is 0.98*X higher than it was before. All other investors have their stake adjusted such that (stake*bankroll) is the same before. After this process is completed, the bankroll is increased another 0.02*X. (this process is known as the "dilution fee" and is basically new investors paying the old investors (and themselves) compensation for lowering their stake

but when the bankroll grows or decreases my stake in the bankroll also changes, so you are telling me that if I had invested when the bankroll was at 100 btc profit and now it is 2.2k btc profit I would have 22x my investment?

So the house edge is 1%, investors always pay Dan 0.25% commissions (regardless of outcome) which means from investors point of view the edge is 0.75%.

Now according to:
https://www.bustabit.com/faq/how-does-the-bankroll-work

The max a single player can win in a round is 0.75% -- so that means if there was a single player in the game and he was aiming for the max-profit ... investors would be at a 1x kelly. However it's possible for multiple players to be playing at the same time, so there's a secondary cap at: Each round can only win 1.125 % of the bankroll which means if that happened (e.g. multiple whales at once) investors would be at a 1.5x kelly ( which is not ideal, but still +expected bankroll growth).

I couldn't find in the FAQ the current offsite limit, but what ever it is should be easy to calculate the kelly if you use it as a means to leverage (which I'd advise against)
 

Yeah, when you "invest" you get own % (stake) of the bankroll. So when the bankroll grows or decreases, your stake stays the same. So if the bankroll doubled  your investment would double. If the bankroll halved, your investment would halve.   (Note: stakes are readjusted when people invest or divest, so you only make money when the bankroll gains money from gamblers)

Thank you

Hello guys I have some questions,

can someone tell me if I invest on the bankroll with no leverage (only investing with onsite) what Kelly am I exposed to and how can I calculate it? also what is the Kelly if I where to use the offsite system as leverage?

and also if the bankroll increases 10% does that mean that my investment also grows 10%?

thank you guys

The largest win in a single bet was 42 BTC from a 40 BTC bet: https://www.bustabit.com/bet/104995305

And if the thread don't have any recent activity it does not mean that few people knew this lol. Bustabit had aged here. ;b


Well I guess no members here didn't know bustabit and other popular gambling sites. Bitcointalk is a good place to advertise anyway.

Nice bit of information there. It was a long time ago it all started but thank you for the links.

Yes, It was called moneypot when it was first announced and launched here back in 2014. Then it was rebranded to bustabit and in latter moment it was, as far as I understood, recoded and modified to bustabit 2.0.



As far as I know user espringe invented it; btw it's a pity he is not anymore around here on bitcoitalk.

Here is original announcement thread : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bustabitcom-the-social-gambling-game-709185

Hope I remember things correctly , maybe Devans or Rhavar might correct me.

I'm interested..
Is bustabit first crash game?
and who invented crash game?
I play in this kind of game if I have extra coin.

I doubt a wagering contest needs to be that complicated like silvers and snapshots and back to backs and all that. I think if there was whatever amount collected like jackpot would be enough tbf. I don't care if its 0.25% or 0.05% , even the tiniest amount put aside for something like this would be enough. So, lets assume instead of 21 bitcoin, how about 2 bitcoin, or even 1 bitcoin.

Price is still a lot for many gamblers and would make many small time gamblers come in and play here constantly for a chance of winning the bet. However you can change "how to win" differently by just making not the highest wagered person but a random person as well (altough highest wagered works too). Simply put when you want to do a wagering contest you can do with any reward you want, nobody will say "hey I got less free money than I expected" since its literally free money.

I would like to know what the single largest winner on a single bet placed was.

Does anybody have that information?

That could be a good idea, although it seems more complicated to explain to players. Another option could be daily wagering contests, prizes would still be decent and people would have a reason to try to get a prize everyday (I think a top heavy structure would be optimal, as this kind of promotion would be targetting mostly big gamblers anyway).

I really like Timetwister's idea of a wagering contest, but I think it needs it to be done smartly. The simple "Who ever wagers most between X and Y wins Z" I think is not really effective, as it's only interesting to a tiny amount of whales -- and the smart strategy is to wait till the last moment before wagering. So it's kind of boring in terms of events.

So my proposal is this:


Every ~24 hours you calculate how much people have wagered since last time. For every 200 bit they wagered in that period, they are awarded 1 silver. And at the same time you also snapshot and publish how much silver every player has.

The person who has the most silver for 7 consecutive snapshots in a row wins. The winner is awarded 1 bit for every 1 silver the #2nd highest person has at the time of the final snapshot.


And the interesting part: You can freely transfer and trade your silver. So even if you know you're not going to be able win the wager contest, you can still be involved by selling your silver (or even speculate and market make etc.). I think the mechanics of "needing to be #1 for 7 days in a row" could create a pretty interesting "dollar auction" sort of mechanic.

I tried accessing the website on my mobile phone's own browser but it says the site may contain potential risk where the firefox browser seems not having this problem and when I click the red sign this is what it say Dangerous websites

As detected by Tencent PC Manager, this website may contain potential risks. It is recommended that you do not continue visiting or perform any operation on the website.

Add as a trusted site

Add as a trusted site, and it will not be reported as a dangerous website in the future.

Application website:https://www.bustabit.com/.

I know adding the site as trusted site the the problem won't show again but what are your reason for this matter?

Watching on the date of replies in which the last activity of this thread is january 30 until there's an activity in this thread now.

I think people are searching for websites in bitcointalk and other sites and then they find this thread. Some may search a website base on the country their in for example I search a casino website only.