Topic: bustadice – Dilution fee lowered to 1% - page 54. (Read 37133 times)

I'm going to stop taking over Devan's thread, but one last thing:



One future extension I'd like to make, is introducing *another* party: the arbitrator. Currently the game-server and audit-server communicate through a (validated-on-both-sides) tls connection. So instead of communicating directly, you could proxy the connection through an arbitrator (who is running on the same datacenter to avoid latency) and acts as a dumb proxy with no means to decrypt or modify the connection. However, the arbitrator would run tcpdump on the traffic for logs.

Now if the audit-server and the game-server ever got into a dispute (either because 1 party was malicious, or one party was undetectably hacked and had wrong data). The tls keys could be revealed, and the arbitrator sees who was right. This would work especially well if the arbitrator was the 3rd (2-of-3 cold storage key holder), so in a hypothetical dispute would know who to side with.

But this is a bit overkill for now 

The neutral third party is quite well known in the bitcoin community, but has asked to not be named to avoid their participation looking like an endorsement. In the case of any dispute or problems between me and Daniel, the third key holder will not arbitrate nor in the general case has enough information to sanely do so. So their primary role is simply help out in the case of Daniel or me has an issue that would prevent us signing (e.g. gets hit by a bus). You can pretty much think of it was 2-of-2 cold-storage, with a backup in case someone dies.  (This could have also been achieved using time-locked transactions, but it's incredibly tedious)

Edit: In the interest of transparency, we are still working on testing/verifying the cold-wallet solution. So there is currently no money held in it, and we've told interested investors to hold off for a day while we make sure everyone is comfortable with it.


 
You are charged the dilution fee on the difference of your (onsite+offsite). So if you add 1 bitcoin to the onsite, and subtract the same from the offsite (at the same time) your net position is the same and you are not charged any fees.  I think the whole UI needs a bit of improvement, but it should be more obvious when it tells you the expected dilution fee, so you can easily see how it works.



Yup! Nice job on that. It looks like pretty much the exact same thing. The only difference I see is that instead of a weekly audit, we do it in real-time. We require users to reveal their hashes before using their money


I am just confused to not see the audit hash anywhere and not mentioned in the verifier either.


Yeah, but it's abstracted away. The "Server seed" is actually the concatenation of the two seeds. But the user just needs to copy and paste the whole thing into the verifier script. So from their perspective it's exactly like verifying any other game. We'll come up with a more technical specification, but this is the high level overview:
https://gist.github.com/RHavar/285c295f7906e03369cd66580a1b5f45

But you can see it in the verifier:
view-source:https://bustadice.github.io/verifier/

Thanks! Daniel and I spent a bit of timing going back and forth about how the commission structure should work, but I think it's a pretty reasonable compromise. Only charging a commission on profits is definitely better for investors (even though over a long period of a time it's the same) but I think it makes sense to offload as much variance to investors as possible: after all, that's what they're +EV (and +Expected bankroll growth) for!

That said, investing is inherently very risky and the commission structure does exacerbate that, so it is pretty sane to risk less than you otherwise would.

Looks good Some questions:



Who is the "neutral third party" of the cold storage?

Can you still adjust investment amounts without being charged the dilution fee (eg to lower the onsite amount or increase/lower the offsite amount of your investment - I obviously don't mean increasing onsite which is of course charged.)

The audit system sounds a bit like the idea I had 3 years ago, so cool to see that I am just confused to not see the audit hash anywhere and not mentioned in the verifier either. If audit seed is used in game calculation, wouldn't it be needed in verifier too?

Site looks very promising, excited to try it out. Not sure how I feel about 25% of the house edge regardless of win or loss, would suck to lose money on the investment and then have to pay fees but profit wise it still should work out in long run. The dilution aspect would make me a bit apprehensive to invest but it's pretty unique and seems good for longterm investors.

its good to see the new generation dice game. really excited to play it, also thinking to invest some. good luck with the team

Thanks for the quick reply. I will consider investing some money in this site.

Another thing I notice is I can't change the password which I can remember for this site right? It always generates a new password which I can't memorise. If I can remember then it is good because any way you guys already providing 2fa function to protect accounts.

I am the exclusive owner of bustabit, and a partial owner of bustadice. Bustadice is it's own project separate from bustabit. I would describe it as "a bustabit inspired dice site".

Daniel is the guy who will be running it on a day-to-day basis (and in fact, for security I do not and will never have access to the servers). I helped a bit with the development, and going forward my primary role is just running the "seed server" and auditing the game results and co-signed of the cold-storage.


The site charges investors 25% of the house edge on each bet (regardless if win's or not). Other than that, everything goes directly to the bankroll (and thus investors).

So, if I see everything correctly, you are both (partial) owner of bustabit and bustadice? Or is bustadice just the site that 'evolved' from bustabit?

Anyways, good to know that you're involved here as well. That gives me enough trust to invest here 

Another question: what is the model that should make profit behind this? Is there a commission on profits for the investors?

In the future, investors will have to pay 10 % of their investment to all existing investors. That doesn't apply to any investment you make during the prerelease period over the next few days.

If you decide to invest more in the future (after the prerelease period), the fee will apply to that investment regardless of whether or not you invest now.

Site design looks nice and interested to invest some money here but one thing wants to ask.

"Usually there is a fee of 10 % on investments to protect existing investors against dilution, but this fee is waived until betting begins."

This means that if I invest now and dilute anyone in future there won't be 10% dilution fee for me?

Thanks for the explanation! I've tried and it worked for me. Necessary to add, that this message was appearing probably because my balance was not confirmed at the moment I've tried to invest. It would be better to show some clear message stating this case.

Leverage up to 50:1 is supported. For example, if you deposit 1 BTC and invest it onsite, you can invest up to 49 BTC offsite.

It is not possible to make a divestment that would cause you to exceed that leverage. In other words, any adjustment you make to your investments must ensure that your offsite investment is at most 49x your onsite investment. If you try to divest more than that you'll receive the error message you saw.

I've updated the error message to be a bit clearer. Let me know if anything's still unclear or if you have any other questions

just visited your website it looks good. by the way since this is a gambling website do u guys happen to have any affiliate program ?

can't wait man, I remember your last gambling site edit: ( flinch.io )
and it was pretty nice, but I hope this one would go good as well

It looks nice. I like the 10% dilution idea. It makes sense. I guess this will be a very profitable site much like bustabit so it might be a good idea to invest in ? Since bustabit has no investment options. There many good casinos out there and they all competing. I guess this will force casinos offer more features and better incentives then the next casino. This is only a good thing. AmThe website is nice and easy to read. Good job.

Tried to invest, but completely stuck on the entering Onsite and Offsite values. May you show some examples?
Whatever I put into these fields, I get "That would cause you to become overleveraged."

Thank you

Thank you, I've corrected the mistake.

Another project from Ryan. Hope it would be success as always.
There's a typo in the announcement, "imput"" gives a rather negative sense there.

Yeah, it's distributed exactly according to your investment. E.g. if you owned 10% of the bankroll at that time, you'd get 10% of someone else's dilution fee. (But then they'd be diluting you, so you'd later own less of the bankroll but own more money)